Najee said:

Thank you for proving that Michael definately has vitiligo. In those photos, the woman's skin tone in the second picture, is considerably lighter than in the first photo. It's a balanced out tone of the natural colour and the blotches caused by vitiligo.

So say MJ used this product in the early 80s. His skin tone in the Thriller era was a bit lighter than the Off The Wall era. I reckon this is because the balanced out skin tone of his natural colour, and the blotches, was a medium-brown. Then in the mid 80s when he started to get more and more blotches, he used the product again, and the balanced out tone of the colour he now had and the blotches caused by vitiligo was even lighter. So I reckon he kept on using this product as more and more blotches appeared on his skin, until he was balancing out a very light brown with white/grey blotches. So the result of the product would make his skin very pale. He uses make-up to give his sking (which is probably a pale looking grey colour) a bit of colour. So he uses pinks and browns. I think those photos are proof that he definately has vitiligo. Thanks for posting them.

Speaking of MJ's kids, Prince turns 10 in a couple of days. I can't believe it was 10 years ago when the world was shocked to hear the King of Pop had spawned a Prince.

Najee said:

Yeah, that´s how he also did it during the court. They would always give him the cover and he would read the date, cause he could not remember anything. He remembered other things. He showed an excellend memory when it came to the process of writing. He remember exactly how the notes appeared in his head.


Well, I do understand that. I also have quite a bad memory when it comes to dates. I can hardly remember what year I graduated form highschool. I am fascinated by ppl with good memory. My grandma remembers the whole´s villageś birth years. I know a lady who even remembers in what years she read this or that book. I always feel like an idiot next to them. So i understand Mike.
And yes he does remember when it started. He said around OFf the wall, Thriller.

I guess back than, they did not have such good creams as today.

Maybe because up to Bad, he was putting a black make-up on to cover the white blotches and starting form Dangerous, he was covering the dark blotches with white cream, since it has become so extensive as Karen said.
BTW, the first picture is... in 1979?
Back than, he said that vitiligo started. I was probably not as spread and he might have blotches on other parts of his body not face. But in the pictures that I posted, you can see that during Thriller, he had some blotches on his cheekbones.

He did that back than also.







I would love to see what you would have said if he was painted like that with dark skin. He would have looked rather weird, don´t you think? And seconly, I dount it was him who painted it and thirdly, we all know how Mike loves art, so why couldn´t he have the picture?
[Edited 2/11/07 5:14am]

dag said:

Wasn't that white angel thing a shot from the YANA video? I don't think he was making himself out to be an angel, or being proud to be white, it's just a shot from one of his videos. I bet if you go to his house you'd see shots from Thriller, Bad, Smooth Criminal and all his videos. He's proud of his videos.
[Edited 2/11/07 7:01am]

DarlingDiana said:

The woman's face is only slightly lighter because she is wearing makeup over the color concealer (which speaks of your lack of familiarity with the product). If you look at her neckline on both photos to where her blouse meets (an unaffected area), you will see that her neck is the same complexion as her face.

If the woman wanted a lighter or darker complexion, she would buy lighter or darker makeup to put over the concealer. Even if MJ's skin turned its current deathly white complexion, he could buy the makeup that is the complexion of his former skin color and apply it, making his skin look like its former complexion.
[Edited 2/11/07 18:37pm]

dag said:

And according to Michael Jackson, most of those photos you posted were taken after the time he said he was diagnosed with vitiligo -- and you see nothing there that remotely suggests he has the very obvious skin blotches that come from the disease. The concert photos in particular would be nearly impossible to cover the spots with makeup, because the heat of the bright lights would generate more than enough perspiration to make him sweat through it (not to mention MJ's dancing and moving all over the place).

And given MJ's supposed sensitivity on the issue, don't you find that rather contradictory that he has no problem exposing himself?

dag said:

What would I say if I saw a painting of a black man being painted in the image of a black man? You keep forgetting that when it's all said and done, MJ is black. His skin color supposedly is the result of a skin disease, something he supposedly cannot control -- that doesn't mean his self-image should change.

If he had no color issues like what some of you MJ zealots proclaim, MJ would say, "Despite this disease, I see myself as a black man. It changed the complexion of my skin, not my identity."
[Edited 2/11/07 13:51pm]

DarlingDiana said:

No, it was a painting of Michael Jackson as an angel with mostly white children surrounding him that was in a room in his house on the Martin Bashir documentary.
[Edited 2/11/07 11:23am]

Wow, this thread just keeps growing. Well again, I feel the need to comment.

Sosgemini - as a moderator aren't you supposed to be moderate? Your posts tend to be very biased and anti-Prince. Based on my posts with you regarding the Mayte interview awhile back, I realized that you seem to want to make Prince out to be some maniacal asshole. So you tend to mislead with your statements by misinterpreting other's comments. I don't know why you feel that Najee is sad or angry because he called you on trying to pass off opinion and exaggeration as fact.

As a moderator, I think you have more of a duty to clarify the difference between fact and fiction in your posts. So you should not be offended when someone asks you to prove the statements that you make. I'm all for everyone having their own opinions, but opinions should not be stated as or passed off as fact.

Also, several of you appear unwilling to acknowledge the racial element to Michael's self mutilation. Having vitiligo is one thing, but that coupled with desecrating your natural African features and trying to pass off white children as biologically yours clearly point to deep issues of self hatred.

I know people with vitiligo and they use make up to mask the light parts of their skin. They don't match the rest of their skin to the light parts - that's crazy! Also, doctors have said that it is rare and takes a long time for someone with vitiligo to completely lose all pigment.

We live in a society that teaches us that white is better than black, that thin is better than fat, that young is better than old, and so on. Many people mutilate themselves based on a self-hatred that is born out of this societal brainwashing. IMHO, Michael is clearly a victim of the myth of white superiority.

Finally, I saw the Martin Bashir interview and that was a PAINTING, it was not from a video. Michael was painted as white along with the white children that accompanied him in the painting. It was another sad and pathetic example of his self hatred.

I am not anti-MJ. As I said before, I really feel sorry for him. He will never be happy if he cannot love and ACCEPT himself.

bellanoche said:

huh? once again, no my role here is a moderator is not to moderate discussion...it is to manage the rules that ben has set forth for this website...when will you guys understand that?

secondly, i am free to *my opinion*....and i shared it...if folks think that kevin smith is lying, thats their right...and if folks think his stories have truth in them then thats our right...

good god. my desire not to engage najee has nothing to do with his opinion and everything to do with his habit of tit for tat long ass arguments that go nowhere...this thread being a perfect example of that.

and yeah, these sudden combative debates lead me to wonder if there isnt some displaced anger going on...and i just dont want to engage in it. so, im not engaging him in debate anymore...and i can do that...and you can engage with him...cause we are all adults here.

dag said:

The racial element of Michael Jackson's appearance also takes root in the form of the people rationalizing, defending and approving of MJ's Caucasian-based looks. The majority of people I have met who are in the camp of endorsing MJ's looks tend to be non-black (and particularly, but not solely, white). A whiter MJ is more palatable to some and it confirms the myth of white supremacy when they see that a very succesful black man would basically give it all up just to be white.

If someone like David Bowie changed his features to look black and tried to pass clearly black children off as biologically his, wouldn't we hear white people calling him insane? How is that different from what MJ is doing?

And as I said before, I believe it also got to the point where those defending MJ's looks like him for not looking like a black man. By the early 1990s, MJ started looking much more feminine in his photos (including hairstyles and clothing that seemed feminine-inspired).
[Edited 2/11/07 17:54pm]

sosgemini said:

In other words, you don't feel you have a sense of responsibility to act in a behavior that is reflective of your standing and privileges of moderator, which include banning members, deleting posts and locking threads? Mind you, several people beyond myself now have questioned you on this same issue before -- so your paranoia about me asking you this question doesn't have any merit.
[Edited 2/11/07 11:47am]

Najee said:

1) uhhh...what does any of this have to do with me sharing my opinion on the subject?

2) if you wanna have a serious discussion about site moderation then do it within the proper forum.

and

3) what does any of this have to do with me sharing my opinion on the subject?

sosgemini said:

1.) You go beyond offering opinions -- you have shown instances of strong biases that have caused several people to raise their eyebrows concerning your objectivity. You also have shown tendencies to control situations selectively (and often act when it's in your best and personal interest), in addition to an inability to separate being a moderator and being just another member on a board. You also seem to be incredibly active on the boards, and too much in the capacity of another person posting.

2.) Show me where to go.

3.) See No. 1.
[Edited 2/11/07 11:59am]

Najee said:

site discussion senor.

sosgemini said:

And that thread has been created on that forum. I'm sure you will find it interesting -- from what I understand, complaints about you as a moderator is not anything new.
[Edited 2/11/07 17:19pm]

Najee said:

PurpleRighteous1 said:

Whatever MJ has done to himself, this will always be the true MJ to me, afro to the sky and skin like mocha, with the most soulful eyes and the sunniest smile. This is the true MJ in my books, what you see today is a pale imitator.

whatsgoingon said:

That's a nice picture of MJ, I gotta say.

I agree, whatsgoingon. There is no way you could have imagined in 1979 that this young man:



would end up looking like this hot mess:



As far as I am concerned, Michael Jackson as I knew him died some time ago and this ... thing ... took his place.
[Edited 2/11/07 18:13pm]

sosgemini said:

That's true MJ is just sick

krayzie said:

And MJ's zealots are equally as sick, judging by all the rationalizations.

You are completely messed up Najee! You are a fuckhead for calling us sick. Your judgement of character is so fucked up. Shit dude!
[Edited 2/11/07 20:46pm]

First of all people need to grow up and think. Michael Jackson does have a skin disease. I'm a fan and I believe he could have done something extra to even his skin or whatever. I don't agree with his nose jobs etc. I do enjoy his music which is only criticized now because of the image placed upon him.

Now we all know he doesnt look like a white women. That's a insult to white women I think. This man has a big square batman chin, plus everyone says he looks like a skeleton monster etc. or else he looks like a white woman. Make up your mind. I guess if he had brown skin he would like a black woman right.

I agree he is not normal and he is not like everyone else. That doesnt mean I cant be a fan. I do believe he has issues with his being a child or a man. That doesnt mean he wants to hurt children. When I was a boy I wasnt interested in doing something sick with my friends, we had water balloon fights, played video games, climbed trees etc.

I dont think it's normal for a man to want to hang out with children more than adults. But that doesnt mean I cant be understanding or give it some thought if I know this person didnt have a real childhood.

You geeks who sit here and constantly think of every sick joke or sarcastic statement in the book about him need a life. Your not that smart and your not always right. Give him a break the man is a legend.Countless fans and other people who happen to enjoy his music, performances or believe he does have a good heart by donating so much and helping sick children, dont need to hear your "quick wit" if you call it that which only pisses people off.

And this whole thing with his children is silly. If there not bioligically his who cares. Damn this is so sad were a person who has grown up his whole life in the spotlight has to have every aspect of his life criticised by a bunch snaked tongued self proclaimed psychologists, psychics and whatever else they think of them selves. None of you have your flaws put out for the whole world to see.

So I'm going to continue being a fan and so are other people and if your "big brain" cant comprehend that you might as well dig a hole for yourself, because youre not accomplishing anything. Go talk about prince and forget the hasbeen if thats what you believe. You annoying low browed idiots.

I'm out of here
This board gives more attention to Michael Jackson than anyone else.
[Edited 2/11/07 22:29pm]
[Edited 2/11/07 22:29pm]
[Edited 2/11/07 22:30pm]
[Edited 2/11/07 22:33pm]

very interesting thread

DarlingDiana said:

[ZEALOT TRANSLATION]"How dare you talk about my god that way, INFIDEL! Die a thousand deaths in the valley of the sun!"[/ZEALOT]

And with every comment you make, you confirm to the rest of the world you are an unreasonable Michael Jackson zealot. Next time, understand the basics of makeup (per your comments about the Fashion Fair products).
[Edited 2/12/07 5:48am]

creation said:

Michael Jackson may have vitiligo (and I'm willing to agree), but considering how the skin disease works, photographs of MJ that run contrary to how the disease works and MJ's own inaccurate and convoluted responses it's fair to say he also did something else to his skin. Vitiligo typically doesn't cause the entire pigment in one's skin to go away -- an ignorance MJ zealots perpetrate by not trying to follow up on such comments, merely taking them at face value.

creation said:

MJ certainly doesn't look like a black man, though. The "white woman" comments are approximations of what his appearance is. He's evidently lightened his skin (pictures even MJ zealots have posted clearly show that) to make it a Caucasian-like color plus in the 1990s he started dressing and wearing his hair in styles I definitely associate with women:












The "white woman" comments are thus a summation of his lack of African-based features (which MJ himself took away) and a feminine look and wardrobe.

creation said:

But having sleepovers with children when you're in your 30s and 40s goes beyond a "lost childhood." Sleeping in the same bed with the children is even more bizarre -- it's clearly a sign on an emotionally damaged man.

creation said:

Zealot talk, zealot talk, zealot talk.

creation said:

The issue is brought up because MJ repeatedly has said those were his biological children. It wouldn't be an issue if MJ said he adopted them or they were the product of an arranged pregancy with someone else as the sperm donor. But instead, you have a black man saying that he fathered clearly white children. It's better to tell the truth because telling a lie carries more stress ... and the risk of being clowned extensively.
[Edited 2/12/07 5:31am]

whatsgoingon said:

I agree! In those days,he looked so....so....normal.Like a real human being.I bet that pic is from 1976 or so.It's tragic what he has done to himself.

I don't get all the fuss, and I don't get some people saying MJ looks ugly, bizarre or abnormal. I wont say if I prefer his black look or his white look, all I say is that he has never looked ugly, he's always been a very good-looking man. He's had ugly photos, but he's never been ugly. Do you honestly think this man looks ugly?...




These are the latest photos taken of Michael to date. IMO, this shows he hasn't changed much since the 80s, and any changes he's made he's reverted. Expecially in that second pic, if you replaced that wig for a curly one, and if his skin was brown, it'd look like that photo was taken in the late 80s.

"if you replaced that wig for a curly one"