I think the Thriller video is not that grainy, well mine isn't. You can see MJ body and face clear enough to know whether he has white blotches on Mocha colour skin. When MJ fans what to prove the vitiligo theory they show pics of the Dangerous era or so, when he was already looking white as snow. Vitiligo is most noticeable on dark skin, so why can't people come up with hard-core pics during the OTW, Thriller era when MJ said it first started. And please don't bring the fake Truimph pic...

Najee said:

eh, it's rather that in some cases it's been found out to be helpful. And controlled ultraviolet treatment is completely different from exposure to sunlight. When you don't have much pigmentation on your skin you stay away from the sun from extensive periods of time, that should be just common sense. I have to do that too myself. It doesn't fucking cure me, I just get badly burned.

But yes, it doesn't explain his "biological" children. Maybe he doesn't want to pass on his genetics that are carrying a severe disease to his children, or maybe he really does view himself "caucasian" these days. Who knows, he has severe personality disorders so we can't speculate on the motifs of his decisions (yes, Jackson is literally mad - sorry MJ fans, but he is). Their trajectory of thought doesn't follow common logic, plus he has always lived in seclusion.
[Edited 2/8/07 9:16am]

whatsgoingon said:

That's one I could find:



However, yes that was (long) before the Thriller video. Maybe he did indeed wear paint already by that point. Or maybe that picture above is a fake, however it's doubtful any obsessed jackson fan would choose a picture like that to photoshop. Also there is a very big picture of him with the white blotches on an unofficial note transcriptions book for his 80s hits (I used to have that one, I'll try to google for that image if I remember the title of the book - just for fun ). I don't think the publishers realized it was showing his illness.

novabrkr said:

Well, looking at my previous post I don't recall saying exposure to sunlight by itself totally cured vitiligo. And yes, exposure to sunlight is used as a method of helping vitiligo patients, as stated by The National Vitiligo Foundation:

http://www.nvfi.org/treat...ches.shtml

So given that exposure to ultraviolet light (including sunlight) is used as part of a treatment to combat vitiligo -- and you have a person who supposedly has vitiligo going through extensive measures to avoid contact with sunlight -- it makes you wonder about Michael Jackson's thought process.
[Edited 2/8/07 9:21am]

novabrkr said:

Given the hairstyle, that photo would have been taken sometime just before or after the "Thriller" album came out. I've seen that picture before (Michael Jackson dressed like Charlie Chaplin) in a photo scrapbook during that period, and I do not recall seeing evident blotches on his face -- so either that photo or the one in the book I saw was doctored. And given that there weren't many (or any) software packages in circa 1983 or 1984 that allowed you to doctor photos a la Photoshop, I would bet the one you posted is altered.
[Edited 2/8/07 15:19pm]

We really have no life.

I really don't understand your logic behind the sunlight comment though. With any auto-immune disease that affects the skin, you stay away from the sun. And now that I (actually bothered to) read vitiligo pages again they all say that exposure to sunlight can cause severe problems. Of course it does as you don't have any pigmentation left on your skin, you get burnt in minutes. Even if UV has worked in some cases, it obviously doesn't work for Jackson. I doubt Jackson walks around with the umbrella just for fun. Let me just tell you burning in minutes is not fun, actually most people don't understand that the sunlight hitting on your skin actually does even hurt to a degree. At least it's a rather uncomfortable feeling.

But yes, I agree that he doesn't seem to want to be "cured", anyway. He would have had completely different choices for his promotional photographs and so on. And why the hell does he live in California?

Oh fuck, somebody made a youtube of it: http://www.youtube.com/wa...5TSEKXXIvI

Some of those are a bit of hit'n'miss though.
[Edited 2/8/07 9:32am]

novabrkr said:

What part of the National Foundation for Vitiligo saying that sunlight can be used as part of a topical treatment to combat vitiligo do you not understand? Did you even bother to look at that link that I posted? Here is the entry:

Ultraviolet light

Ultraviolet light seems important for maximal success in treating vitiligo. Ultraviolet light stimulates melanocytes to proliferate within the hair follicle and to migrate into the surrounding white skin producing freckles. The freckles coalesce and the skin is repigmented. There are at least four sources of ultraviolet light that can be used in combination with topical treatments.

A. Natural sunlight. Natural sunlight has the entire spectrum of ultraviolet light and is very effective when used in combination with topical treatments described above. Exposure to sunlight for 30 minutes 3 times per week (avoiding sunburn) is sufficient. There are limitations with natural sunlight. These include seasonal variations in available sun, problems with exposing some parts of the body, work or school hours and similar logistical problems.

In other words, exposure to sunlight not only is beneficial to helping vitiligo patients, it can be used to help treat them (in conjunction with other treatments). In any regards, sunlight is not detrimental to vitiligo patients -- and here you have a person in Michael Jackson who goes through extensive measures NOT to be exposed to sunlight (mind you, we're talking about someone generally going from an automobile into a building and he doesn't want to exposed for the few seconds he's in sunlight).

You're talking about someone who is always wearing long, dark clothes no matter the season and always under an umbrella whenever he's been in public. And if sunlight is so detrimental, why in the world has MJ lived in California of all places for years?
[Edited 2/8/07 9:44am]

Yes. But he already probably went through the procedure ("depigmentation") a long time ago, it wouldn't work for the guy anymore. You are reading too much into that part anyway, there are many other vitiligo sites that I just checked (and have checked out before as I've had to do a lot of reading on skin diseases because doctors sure as hell don't tell you all) and the sites all talk about the hardness of avoiding sunlight in everyday life. Again, the UV solution works "in some cases". Not all. There are variations to the disease.
[Edited 2/8/07 9:46am]

novabrkr said:

You're flat-out reaching now, and won't admit that a national foundation created to inform people about vitiligo states clearly that sunlight has no adverse impact on those with the skin disease -- in fact, sunlight can be used as part of the treatment -- and you were incorrect.

Hell, I know and have met people with vitiligo and sunlight did not adversely affect them nor were they hypersensitive to sunlight. You just made some unfounded assumption that people with vitiligo have hypersensitive issues with sunlight and now that's been proven not to be the case you continue on with this nonsense.
[Edited 2/8/07 10:08am]

You really prove yourself to be a very arrogant individual once again, on this very thread as well. That's all I have to say about your personality in response.

Yeah, it must be complete NONSENSE that people with non-existent pigmentation must stay away from sunlight. You aren't even reading the article you are posting here correct yourself - it clearly mentions four different alternatives.

as far as the case with depigmentation goes, this is what it says:
"Depigmentation: - Monobenzylether of hydroquinone it should be assumed this is permanent and irreversible but some repigmentation can occur following sun exposure.) It takes several years to depigment the face, neck, hands and arms.."

... and for repigmentation:
" It is essential before beginning therapy to determine if the skin is able to repigment, i.e., there is a reservoir.

"Patients should be healthy. No one with a sensitivity or allergy to sunlight can be treated."

AND FROM THE SAME SITE:

"Patients with Vitiligo should always protect their skin against excessive sun exposure by wearing protective clothing, staying out of the Sun at peak periods except during treatment time, and/or applying sunscreen lotions and creams. (Even if somebody went through that form of treatment it doesn't mean that they can actually STAY in the sunlight)

(and just one of the hundreds of sources from the net stating the same thing)
http://www.chelationthera...y/p52.htm:
The important thing to bear in mind is that the general health of people with vitiligo is not affected by their vitiligo, though they do have to take extra care in the sun."

yet more:
"Patches of vitiligo skin have no natural protection against the sun's rays. This is because vitiligo skin is white as the melanocytes which produce melanin (skin pigment) are not active. The effect of the sun is normally to increase melanin production and to turn the skin brown; this is a protective mechanism to prevent the skin from being damaged by burning.

Therefore, the most important reason for protecting your skin is to prevent sunburn. Not only is this painful, but damage to the skin, including sunburn, can stimulate the vitiligo to spread in some people.

As vitiligo skin is particularly vulnerable to sunlight and needs protection, some brands of sunblock are classified by the NHS (The British National Health Service) as borderline substances which means they can be obtained on prescription from your doctor."

Do you finally understand now that there are variations to the disease? Read the whole fucking page, don't just make illogical assumptions based on a few lines.
[Edited 2/8/07 10:39am]

This is a pic of MJ between OTW and Thriller. He has obviously done a nose job and he has cut off his afro, apart from that the pic is quite natural, with hardly any airbrushing, you can even see his whisks of hair on his chin and his eyebrows are not shaped or pluck, I doubt he is wearing loads of makeup. Now if he had vitiligo in it's initial stages it is much more likely to show up at this stage, because of his darker skin.

whatsgoingon said:

I used to be a huge MJ fan from the time that I was 4 yrs old. I have tons of pictures of MJ in the late 70's through the 80's. I've never seen a picture of him with white splotches on his skin. I've seen reddness on his cheeks, which looked to me like he was using some kind of topical medication on his face and it left his skin irritated, but I've never seen anything that would make me think he was loosing his pigmentation.

And I have that Charlie Chapmin pick somewhere around here. There are no white splotches on it.

whatsgoingon said:

this comment has me confused...what does darker skin have to do with vitiligo showing? i have a friend who is as white as a sheet and he has a mild case of vitiligo which you can see on him.

sosgemini said:

White blotches on dark skin will show up more, simply because the contrast is so much greater. That's not to say you can't tell if a white person has vitiligo.

novabrkr said:

Except "excessive sunlight" isn't walking from a car under an umbrella into a building, which is what Michael Jackson typically does when he is in public. "Excessive sun exposure" is someone outside in the sunlight for long periods of day (such as working outside or sunbathing) -- if that is your definition, then once again you're showing how spectacularly ignorant you are.
[Edited 2/8/07 14:45pm]

sosgemini said:

With someone like Michael Jackson's skin color, patches of skin turning color would be more evident and noticeable. Imagine taking some bleach and tossing it on a royal blue shirt (Jackson's skin) vs. a white shirt, and the bleach stains are going to be more noticeable on the blue shirt.

For those that don't believe MJ has vitiligo, Can you name another Black person who has successfully bleached his skin as white as MJ's. I'm sure he can't be the only one in history to have done so? Is there another case? If not, then how did MJ do it?
[Edited 2/8/07 14:44pm]

Najee said:

two comments:

1) [said as a mod- please refrain from calling each other ignorant -sos]

2) my boss always has to wear a hat when out in the sun...even for short periods of time. not saying that he and mj have the same skin condition but some folks do have issues with even small amounts of sun.

sosgemini said:

People with vitiligo don't have inherently hypersensitive skin because they lost some pigmentation, per the assertion made. With excessive exposure, there may be an issue (and then again, excessive exposure to sunlight is an issue with everyone) but certainly not in the manner in which Michael Jackson is exposed when he generally is in public.

Even then, vitiligo still doesn't explain other aspects of Michael Jackson's situation -- namely, his children. In fact, it doesn't fully explain his skin color (mostly beige with some apparent brown spots, where typically it's the opposite with vitiligo patients).
[Edited 2/8/07 18:58pm]

Ok, how many of us know or have known people with this condition? how many of those people did it spread to their whole body? None that I am aware of, not one. I doubt anybody here would be able to truly say they know of any person like that.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's the point I'm making -- I know people with vitiligo, and all the people I've ever seen with vitiligo have primarily their natural skin color plus varying degrees of blotches on their skin. Their skin isn't primarily pink or beige with a few apparent spots like Michael Jackson's. It's pretty evident MJ did something else to his skin.

Najee said:

Well I'm not really following the fighting in this thread Just wanted to make that point for his delusional fans

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I feel a lot of Michael Jackson's supporters bought that line wholesale and really didn't question or challenge it. Vitiligo is not exactly an unknown skin disease -- 1 percent to 2 percent of the world has it, and I'm sure if they met or knew someone with the disease and compared it to Michael Jackson's skin color and situation, they can tell something is amiss.
[Edited 2/8/07 15:15pm]

Najee said:

Exactly. And Michael Jackson wasn't exactly Halle Berry. No way did three kids not receive them dominant black jeans. One maybe, all 3 no way. He cannot be the father of those kids. What a twisted world we live in when he can actually get away with this shit.

lilgish said:

lilgish said:

True. But it is well known that Benoquin, the cream that vitiligo sufferers used to depigmentized the skin, if used and you are NOT a sufferer the symptoms suffered will be similiar to that of vitiligo.

lilgish said:

It's not an issue of whether Michael Jackson has vitiligo with me -- it's an issue of what else he did to his skin. I believe that MJ developed vitiligo between the end of the "Victory" tour with his brothers and the release of "Bad" and used a bleaching (or depigmenting) process to try to fight it. You can look at pictures of MJ during the "Thriller" period and can see no evident cases of vitiligo developing.

The issue is clouded because of the unreliability of MJ himself, who really cannot be taken on face value. Here are excepts from his 1993 interview with Oprah Winfrey:

Michael: Number one, as far as I know of there is no such thing as skin bleaching. I have never seen it, I don't know what it is.

That's a denial right there. Depigmentation procedures were around then, and that's not even counting topical cremes that can lighten darker skin tones that have been around for decades. Products like Ambi have been on the shelves for years.

Oprah: Well they used to have those products, I remember growing up always hearing "always use bleach and glow", but you have to have about 300,000 gallons.

Michael: OK, but number one, this is the situation. I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of my skin, it's something that I cannot help, OK? But when people make up stories that I don't want to be what I am it hurts me.

By this time, mind you, MJ has had his nose worked on at least twice (a pointed, Caucasian nose, nonetheless), had a cleft implanted in his chin (which he denied at one point) and has had several other noticeable changes in his face.

Oprah: So it is...

Michael: It's a problem for me that I can't control...but what about all the millions of people who sit out in the sun, to become darker, to become other than what they are. No one says nothing about that.

Defensive, and once again in denial. Sunbathers aren't trying to become another person or a member of another race, MJ.

Oprah: So when did this start? When did your...when did the color of your skin start to change?

Michael: Oh boy, I don't....sometime after Thriller, around Off The Wall, Thriller, sometime around then.

THIS IS WHERE MJ LOST ALL CREDIBILITY WITH ME. He doesn't remember something such as when he developed such a disease? "Sometime after 'Thriller'" means after early 1983, but then he says "around 'Off the Wall,'" which was released in late 1979. Excuse me, I'm sure I could remember when I developed something like vitiligo -- maybe not the exact day, but definitely the year. But a four-year gap?!?!?
[Edited 2/8/07 19:17pm]

let the world end cause i actually agree with a post by najee.




but anyhoo...i can understand why mj would fabricate or believe things that arent reality...the guy is f*cked up in the head...just look at his face, its rather obvious?

folks excuse prince for his eccentricities. i think the same applies to mj...just more extreme.

Lord, help this thread