EmbattledWarrior said:

Geez, how many trials has he been involved in anyway?

Najee said:

Maybe there were plastic surgeons waiting to carve them up after they exited the womb

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Thank you. After looking at that pic, how can anyone in their right mind believe Wacko Jacko fathered those kids. Talk about a sad, delusional bunch.

DarlingDiana said:

The man has had so many plastic surgeries that he simply does not resemble what he looked like in his younger days. Mind you, all those surgeries were voluntary. Furthermore, the features he gave himself are clearly Caucasian-based. Hell, IMO Michael Jackson doesn't even look HUMAN.

On top of that, among other things he adpots children of another race and claims they are his biological children -- when it's very obvious they don't resemble him. That he is so willing to say that when the consequences are the whole world doubts and mocks him rather than say the truth (or furthermore, have his own children) just reinforces the notion that the man has a race complex.

As far as MJ being happy with his current appearance, I doubt it. He wasn't happy with his original appearance before all the surgeries and looking at things such as the Martin Bashir documentary a few years ago he was looking rather sadly at his footage when he was younger. He tied so much of his self-image with his father and his upbringing -- and he's said it so many times in interviews over the years -- he evidently has developed a self-destructive complex.
[Edited 2/7/07 19:33pm]

Nataly01 said:

No,it may not be a productive thing but that's just the way it is

Look,let's face it...MJ brought alot of this stuff on himself.If he had not turned his life into a bizarre circus,maybe people wouldn't spend so much time dissing him and speculating about his actions.

SoulAlive said:

Exactly, once your in the public eye your up for speculation, considering MJ been in the business longer than most he would have had that drilled into him as a 10 yr old. But he is obviously is just so emotionally mess up now and his shrinking fans becoming more militant by the yrs, that he doesn't seem understand how his image is really being perceived.
[Edited 2/7/07 4:15am]
[Edited 2/7/07 4:16am]

whatsgoingon said:

Although Michael is responsible for the Jackson 5 success, I think his life would have been better if he wasn't part of the group or the music business for that matter.

Krytonite said:

A lot of Michael Jackson's issues seem to come from an abusive father, not from being an entertainer.

FunkyBrotha said:

Are you nut ???

Michael was a strong african man with strong african features.

It's just impossible for an african to have children that look like white kids from Sweden.

The fact that he lied about his kids proved us that :

1- He's definitely crazy
2- He's atrociously complexed
3- He's obsessed with white beauty
[Edited 2/7/07 22:43pm]
[Edited 2/7/07 22:44pm]

Don't agree with the first point. Do agree with the second point. Don't really agree with the third point. He appreciates white beauty, but also black beauty. Apparently he confessed to Teddy Riley in the early 90s that he had gone too far with plastic surgery and he thought he looked alot better in the 80s. When he was black, and beautiful. He's also commented on how beautiful alot of black women are (like Iman, Naomi Campbell). So I think he appreciates all beauty, not specific to any race. Actually, he did once comment that he thought Indian women were the most beautiful in the world.

I don't personally believe that MJ think all black people are ugly, afterall the "love of his life" was Diana Ross. But he obviously has a problem with his own self-image. I also think he has this belief that Black people, especially those with stronger features and darker complexions probably have it rougher in life, and to a certain extent he will be right, probably that's why he didn't want "his children" to look even a little bit black.

I also think the type of fanbase he has NOW has encouraged his transformation from black to white. UNlike back in the 70s where he had pre-dominately black fanbase, his fanbase has shifted considerably to non-black. Let's face it some of his white fans even prefer that he looks like a distort white person, as opposed to the handsome, black brotha he once was.
[Edited 2/8/07 2:59am]

whatsgoingon said:

I would still say there are a lot of black MJ fans. But does it really matter what colour his fans are? As you said, his fans were 90% black when his skin turned white (due to disease or surgery, whatever you think). So it's not the fans that encouraged it. As far as skin colour goes. I believe that was an unfortunate skin condition that was treated in the wrong way (by bleaching his skin white, as opposed to black). But as for the plastic surgery, I think it had everything to do with his father and his childhood. It had nothing to do with his fans, it had nothing to do with MJ wanting to be white and not black. He just was sick of everyone telling him he looked liked the man (his father) who used to make him vomit everytime he saw him because of how badly he treated him as a child. His father has a wide-set nose, so MJ went the opposite. And that's about the only plastic surgery he's had apart from the cleft in his chin, which I think he did just to make himself look better and has nothing to do with white or black or his father.

DarlingDiana said:

I am NOT saying his transformation is exclusively to do with his fans, he had issues from his childhood, we all understand that. But I do believe that his fanbase which has changed drastically over the years have encourage him going further and further away from his roots. Go to his fansites and most fans there are obviously white or at least non-black, many love his "freaky" looks and some have openly confess they prefer looking this way as oppose to his original looks. So that in a way is an encouragement for him to think that what he is doing is having some effect. It explains why he obviously didn't stop the surgery years ago. As I said he should have stopped with Thriller, but he went on and on. And by the time the Bad era came around many of his black fans had gone off him due to what they saw as an obsession with "whiteness".

DarlingDiana said:

Having a race complex doesn't necessarily mean that Michael Jackson hates other black people. It means that MJ identifies himself with a standard of beauty, which in this case is Caucasian-based. That not only reflects itself in his changing of his appearance, it's also reflected in his publicized personal relationships (every woman with whom he has appeared or to whom he has been linked is white) and this issue regarding his children.
[Edited 2/8/07 6:59am]

DarlingDiana said:

There is no idea how many plastic surgeries Michael Jackson has had; after all, he obviously had the nose jobs, but he also begrudingly admitted (and initially denied) he had a cleft put into his chin (a look, MJ said, was inspired by a white actor having a cleft). Plastic surgeons have gone on record saying that looking at MJ's 1970s photos to his late 1980s photos it seems like MJ has had numerous other surgeries (one plastic surgeon on the ABC documentary "20/20" said that it would not be a surprise if MJ had somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 plastic surgery operations).

As for the skin issue, the reason why people are skeptical is because vitiligo doesn't quite explain the complete change in MJ's skin color from the "Thriller"/"Victory" period (1984) to the "Bad" period (1987). Vitiligo shows up in darker-skinned people as pink- or white-looking patches and occurs over a prolonged period of years. MJ's complexion essentially went from a coconut brown to a beige-like color, hence the speculation that MJ has had some chemical peel or skin bleaching. MJ also hasn't helped matters with the unreliability and lack of credibility from previous comments.
[Edited 2/9/07 17:22pm]

whatsgoingon said:

And they have problems too, if they 'blackness' unattractive.

Najee said:

How about vitiligo + make-up

the cheekbones








[Edited 2/8/07 7:12am]

Najee said:

And one of the most visible places where vitiligo first appears and is most apparent is on the hands. Now you check MJ hands from The OTW/Thriller era when he says that the disease first started, they are evenly brown all over. Better still take a look at The Making of Thriller video, where he is topless and they are making him up for the werewolf scene anf the camera is very close up on him, where are the blotches on his body or hands? There are no patches or blotches, which is usually most obvious in the initial stages of vitiligo. I do believe he has some kind of skin problem, but I believe it is self-induce. Infact it is well known fact that chronic bleaching of the skin can mean you end up with similiar symptons to Vitiligo, ie having to avoid the sun, discoloured skin etc.

whatsgoingon said:

Not only that, vitiligo is a disease that becomes prominent over a period of years; in Michael Jackson's case given his constant mid-1980s media appearances you have to buy into the fact his was very sudden.

Vitiligo may also be caused by stress that affects the immune system, leading the body to react and start eliminating skin pigment -- which is possible, considering MJ apparently put pressure upon himself to follow up the success of "Thriller" with "Bad."
[Edited 2/8/07 8:17am]

whatsgoingon said:

Well, the first time I've seen him have the white blotches was on on the award shows he attended after Thriller. The close-ups reveal it very convincingly, but you can't judge somebody's skin complexion on messy, grainy VHS like the Making Of Thriller piece was. And if I remember correctly he said something in the lines of "sometime after thriller, or off the wall". referring to the initial stages of the disease.

Jackson wore "black" make-up for years before switching over to the white version of himself. It's funny when people see pictures of him from the Victory tour or from the "we are the world" video shoots and wonder "why did he have to bleach his skin?". When in fact he was already completely painted over those days, that was NOT his real skin colour. He looked quite plastic already, brown or white. That's the make-up effect.
[Edited 2/8/07 8:07am]

novabrkr said:

But like I said, vitiligo can't fully explain Michael Jackson's body being mostly a beige-like color; if anything, his skin color would be the opposite (mostly brown with pink- or white-like blotches). Also, there are re-pigmentation medicines and methods that can remove those patches or blotches, and evidently MJ has the resources to purchase those from a dermatologist. We're not talking about something that is incurable here.
[Edited 2/8/07 8:14am]

novabrkr said:

Excuse me I had the original video tape of the making of Thriller, this isn't something I saw on Youtube. In the actual video tape of the Making of Thriller you see his body, hands and face very clearly and very close up, it's not grainy at all and his skin especially on his body was very, evenly brown. I know some people would like to believe that was all body makeup, but I ain't buying that.

And if MJ really wanted to convince us that it was vitiligo why not mention it in his biopgraphy; Moonwalk. Instead he put down his skin getting lighter to makeup and changes in modern lightening effects. It was only when he was chalk white and he was put on the spot by Oprah to a wide-world audience did he mention vitiligo. Is it any wonder people don't believe him.
[Edited 2/8/07 8:19am]

He had several pictures of himself without make-up published on a fan magazine around 93-94 (I used to have that magazine for I was a teenage fan), it was from a dance rehearsal that later became the "Dangerous" dance routine he used to do on his History tour. And from what I can remember his skin was rather grey-ish with purple/red blotches (they looked like bruises to me). Mind you he still had on his mascara, but no lipstick or skinpaint (it is "paint" indeed, it isn't just regular cosmetics).

The anti-vitiligo treatment apparently is done to bleach the skin all over, meaning it will make them white leaving them with some reddened areas that can't be treated. The patients may able for that treatment if about fifty percent(? or around that figure) of their bodies is affected by the disease. Plus all skin diseases come in various different variations, so you can't judge one's condition based on another individual's photos. I've had hyperkeratosis for years and the various different forms of it are nothing like each other. Which is why the "skin bleaching" accusations targeted at Jackson tend to piss me off, because people have no idea what kind of things people who are affected by "purely cosmetic" diseases (as doctors like to put it) have to go through in order to hide it. It's all about pretty demanding compromises.

...[server crash edit]
[Edited 2/8/07 8:26am]

novabrkr said:

No, the most commonly used method to combat vitiligo is by re-pigmentation and a lot of the medicines are used orally. Also, cases of recent vitiligo have much better chances of being cured than those more than 10 years in duration. Using such treatments, improvements can be seen in four to eight weeks and the length of treatment can take place in six months to one year. Bleaching is generally seen as drastic with mixed results and is rarely used or recommended.

novabrkr said:

That's because the only reason Michael Jackson's vitilgo claims make sense is if it came suddenly and extensively at the same time and he tried not to treat it. That can make sense if MJ put unbelievable stress on himself. But given that the most common method of fighting vitiligo is re-pigmentation and his skin color being the opposite of the typical vitiligo patient, that's why most people (including other dermatologists) speculate he used chemical bleaching to combat it.

And no matter how you want to look at it, IT STILL DOESN'T EXPLAIN HIS SO-CALLED "BIOLOGICAL CHILDREN."
[Edited 2/8/07 8:44am]

whatsgoingon said:

Yeah, I had it too (traded it for a Prince concert though). It's as grainy as it gets and they used early 80s cheap film where all colour areas blend into each other, hence it doesn't show much detail. And that was about year before the condition started surfacing more prominently anyway - according to his words, of course. Plus there are pictures on this very thread from his 80s days that show the early blotches, so what the hell is the big deal?



Because nobody has to admit to carrying a disease. I think that is obvious.



The heavy lighting effects are commonly used on females who attempt to look better than they actually do, the heavy contrast gives them the realworld "airbrushed" effect when captured on film. It's something Jackson has used for years to hide some of the more grotesque (post-surgery) features he couldn't otherwise hide in public (as he wouldn't have access to the published photos and video footage as they are the property of the broadcast companies). The infamous "hole" on his nose is the primary example, the overt contrast produced by the white skin and lights does the trick. That's exactly why he comes out as white as it gets for the award ceremonies he's been invited to. He could use darker shade of make-up but you'd lose the benefit I mentioned above.


I'm not saying Jackson doesn't have ethnicity issues, as he obviously does.

The repigmentation program is a relatively new invention. Of course he used depigmentation to combat it, I think that's apparent. His skin is in terrible condition by now, and I can only wonder how much it makes worse the problems he is having from his rhinoplasty (and possible other) operations.

novabrkr said:

And even then, there were topical steroids and the use of ultraviolet light to treat vitiligo -- which have nothing to do with chemical bleaching (which is rarely recommended by dermatologists). The likely speculation that is MJ used bleaching to combat what vitiligo he had, which feeds into the race complex issues.

And that's the thing with MJ -- the ultraviolet rays of sunlight have been used to help with repigmentation and when you generally see pictures of Michael Jackson in public and outdoors, he's ALWAYS UNDER AN UMBRELLA AVOIDING SUNLIGHT. That seems contradictory, to say the least.

On top of that, it still doesn't answer the question of Michael Jackson's skin color being mostly beige with some apparent brown spots and not the opposite, as it the case with other vitiligo patients. And it certainly doesn't answer the question of his "biological children."
[Edited 2/8/07 8:59am]