A lot of people don't like this album, and it's been bagged out to death. But despite it's seemingly bad response from fans and critics, so many pop artists have copied this album.

If you look at the music from the last 5 years, this album has definately been the standard in pop music that all artists seem to have used as a formula the way they used Thriller as a formula.

It was a ground-breaking album. There was nothing like it before, and there was a lot of music like it after. Even though artists like Justin Timberlake say they were influenced by Off The Wall and Thriller, you can tell that anything they made after 2001 was influenced by Invincible.

Invincible was the album where Michael drifted away from the mainstream, which he created, and make music that was different and innovative. Songs like "Speechless" are so far astray from mainstream pop. It was an a capella intro and outro and an orchestral arrangement. That shit's not going to get played on the radio, give me a break. Michael wasn't going for a mainstream mega-success. He was simply creating music that was unqieu and special to him, and would make an impact on people who listened to it.

Apart from "Speechless", you've got "2000 Watts" in which Michael's vocals were digitally altered to lower the pitch. That's different, and not mainstream. "The Lost Children" is in the syle of a waltz and featured a childrens chior. The beat in "Privacy" is made from camera sounds. Overall, it's just a very unique album that since it's release has become very influencial, whether people like to admit it or not.

The cultural impact of this album, is huge and a lot bigger than people like to admit. In the entire of series of American Idol I've heard auditioners and contestants sing a lot of the Invincible songs. Songs like "Whatever Happens" and "Butterflies" are pretty much cult classics. They weren't released as singles, but everyone seems to know them. Someone sung "Butterflies" on American Idol, and all the judges knew the song. The audience seemed to know it well. There wasn't anyone who wondered what the song was, or why they hand't heard it before. There were other songs like "Heaven Can Wait" and "Break of Dawn" which never got single releases but made an impact of radio. The album is a cult classic. It's success is more "underground" than mainstream.

There is even a Pakistani artist who recently ripped off "Heartbreaker" in one of his songs. Of all the songs he could've ripped off, he ripped off one that was never released as a single and is featured on what is apparently a critically and commercially unsuccessful album. But despite how unpopular the album is supposed to be, when people heard the Pakistani song, they immediately knew it was a rip off of "Heartbreaker".

This album is a cult classic. It is probably the most unique and innovative album Michael Jackson has ever made. And it influenced a whole generation of pop artists.

In ten or twenty years time, rock and roll historians will look back on the 2002-2007 period and notice that everything that was released in the pop and R&B field was influenced by Michael Jackson's Invincible. It will go down in history as one of the most underrated and influencial albums of all-time. Like it or not.

If you look at it as a mainstream album, you'd think it was a load of crap. But if you look at it as simply an album of music (forget about what pop music is supposed to sound like according to critics who are nothing more than failed musicians themselves) then you'll think it's brilliant and a work of genius.
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No, i think it was judged fairly and sold pretty well for a half assed effort.

Love it. Only about three songs I don't care for.
If it wasn't for Off The Wall it would be my fave MJ album.

jayaredee said:

Half assed? Michael put more time and effort into creating this masterpiece, then he ever did on anything else.

DarlingDiana said:

I don't agree with that, tho'.

Cloudbuster said:

Don't agree that one day it will finally be appreciated for what it is, or you don't agree that everything from 02-07 in pop music was influenced by Invincible?

I know not EVERYTHING since 01 has been influenced by Invincible, but there is a lot of music that I listen to where I can hear influenced from Invincible. It definetely made an impact.

DarlingDiana said:

Well the final outcome sounds half assed, and that's what matters when trying to sell these albums. Aside from maybe 4 decent tunes, this album is really bloated. I can't imagine anyone sitting through all 16 tracks, besides his fans that think he's picture perfect.

DarlingDiana said:

I know a lot of black folk were happy with it as it was a throwback to his soulful roots (which is why I'm also very fond of it).
So yeah, it had an impact on the R&B audience but I don't hear it having a huge influence on pop music in general.

jayaredee said:

As far as mainstream pop songs, it had more than just 4 decent tunes. Unbreakable, Break of Dawn, Heaven Can Wait, You Rock My World, Butterflies and Whatever Happens, if released would all be huge successes. YRMW was released as was big success. BoD, HCW and BF were not released as singles, but all got a decent amount of radio airplay.

Enough with the fans think he's picture perfect stuff too. MJ fans often get stereotyped as being over obssesive, and thinking everything he does is perfect, and that he has no flaws. There are a lot of MJ fans who don't like Invincible. There are a lot of MJ fans who disagree with his plastic surgery operations. There are a lot of MJ fans who don't like him spending time with kids, and some even suspect there might be a little bit of truth to the child molestation allegations. So MJ fans are very different than the way they are stereotyped as.

To me,the album has a handful of good tracks,mostly the slower ones:

Whatever Happens
Butterflies
Heaven Can Wait
Break Of Dawn
Speechless
Cry


If he had kept those songs,then came up with some truly outstanding uptempo songs,the album would have been much better.But with lame uptempo songs like "Heartbreaker","2000 Watts","Privacy" and the title track,it's a rather mediocre album and certainly not up to the high standards he set many years ago.

The MOST underrated album...in pop HISTORY? Ah, no. I don't know what would be, but it wouldn't be this.

DarlingDiana said:

That's the only line I've read so far...

Um no. It is the weakest of all of his post-"Bad" CDs. It is completely insular and devoid of anything that could be recognized as a pop hook.

Many artist have copied MJ. Not many set out to copy Invincible per se just the general MJ feeling--no one is more guilty of repeating Michael Jackson than Michael JAckson is on Invincible.



How so? N'Sync, Britney, and several other pop acts were all doing the "new" sounds that we heard on Invincible way before that album hit.



Yeah, I'm gonna have to call bullshit on this one as well. You need to give some examples/support/evidence to back up this claim. If anything Invincible was MJ biting trends and copying his usual formula.



Celine Dion has done many a song that sounds like "speechless". Acapella intro/outro and orchestra in pop is NOT different nor innovative. Ever hear of Meatloaf? Queen?



It's not gonna get played on the radio but a shit ton of artists have their "orchestra" ballad on their pop album.



Sorry, many a pop act had done it waaaaay before MJ's invincible. Prince for sure. N Sync and Britney's producers were doing it at the time also.




Again, you keep saying it's "influencial" but fail to provide examples. When Invincible hit many were disappointed because it sounded ALOT like Mj capitalizing on current trends--not making new ones. It was derivative. Different for Mj maybe, but not for pop music.



You cannot have it both ways. Either the album is huge or it is a cult classic. If everyone knows something it cannot, by definition, be a cult classic.



MJ is mainstream. Millions of people know and buy his albums. Invincible being known does not make is "good" "influencial" or revolutionary. MJ is MJ so he will always be an influence. However, you are trying too hard to make "Invincible" into something is is/was not.



A whole generation? The album isn't even old enough for that. You must be talking about Thriller, because Invincible isn't innovative, nor unique. All of the production techniques have been done before. MJ is copying himself.



Again, this is a huge leap with no backup or support. In terms of music history Invincible now stands as MJ's worst album in terms of sales and critical response. Being a MJ fan I liked it, but it wasn't his best nor was it a revolutionary as you seem to claim. Perhaps if you had more supporting evidence to back up you claim that everyone in pop/r&b specifically copied Invincible...but as of now I just don't see it.



Here is THE problem with your claim: Invincible does not exist in a vacuum. You cannot look at the album outside of the context of when it was created and what came before it. Yeah, critics don't know shit. However, Invincible IS a mainstream album. Michael Jackson, unlike Prince, prides himself on being the biggest, most popular, most grand, best selling, artist. Invincible is the very definiton of mainstream. It's not like The Rainbow Children where only a handful of die hards know about it. MJ's promotional push was huge for the album. Invincible isn't a horrible album, but it was a letdown for many and the opposite of what you say it it.
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It is underrated.

Unbreakable
Heartbreaker
Heaven Can Wait
Break Of Dawn
You Rock My World
Butterflies
Speechless
Don't Walk Away
Whatever Happens

..with Fall Again and maybe The Way you Love Me and Xscape,

would be a fine album, not great though.

Ahh, I remember the day I bought Invincible, it was a big letdown for me. I was expecting a great album with new classics but, dude, I'm one of those who think that this album has seven or eight good tunes and the rest is just pleasant filler. I mean, even most of the strong songs can't be compared to his 90's classics like Black or white, Jam, You're not alone or even Scream. You rock my world and Unbreakable are awesome though.
And I even didn't like the strong R&B sound of the album; Somehow I was expecting a pop-modern rock record, but that was not a surprise for me; I think that Michael has been an artist without direction since Bad; I mean, since the release of that album he has tried to replicate the hit formula of the times :(Bad: hard dance/hard-rock), Dangerous (new jack swing, hard-rock) and Invincible (R&B, mainstream pop)

I thought the cd was ok. Nothing mind blowing. I did enjoy the ballads more than the uptempo. The cd was lacking a hard edge rock song (e.g. Black or White, Dirty Diana, etc).

Wow.....drugs are NOT good 4 human consumption.

Good post Skywalker. Everyones entitled to their own tastes, but to blatantly try and create a consensus with out substantiating any of these wild claims is ludicrous. A lot of MJ fans love Invincible, but accept that it will never be recognised as such by the general music loving public.

Its a boring derrivative album. Sure it has some nice songs, but for what it cost so it should do. If he IS the King of Pop, if he IS as brilliant as he's meant to be - then the creative result of 5 years in between records should be a lot better than that.

I wouldn't call it underrated but it was decent at best...

In pop history? Gimme a break.

"Butterflies" is classic though; that's about it.

The vocal performances on Break of Dawn, Butterflies and Heaven Can Wait are up there with anything on Off the Wall, for my money.

Michael was in a no-win situation at the time Invincible was released. Even had he delivered another blockbuster album like "thriller" or even "dangerous", it would have been a hard sell in the US because of all his issues. "Invincible" - by most accounts a middle-of-the-road MJ release at best - simply wasn't good enough to transcend all the negativity about MJ.

I gave it another spin recently, and it did sound better than I remembered it. But to me it sounds like an attempt to reclaim the pop throne, a blatantly commercial album, and not particularly groundbreaking. Just my opinion, though.

although I like the album a lot it's not his greatest ever and some songs could have easily been left off.

I agree that it made an (underrated) impact on people in the music industry although a lot of things on the album were not that different from late 90's r&b sounds and rodney jerkins did not live up to his promise of "creating a new sound never heard before"

I will say that 2000 watts could have had an impact. A bollywood choreographer/dancer by the name of Ganesh Hege included this song at concerts and had a whole choreography piece to it. Also one time I went to a charity event and this dance school had a showcase of r&b, hip hop and dance songs and when 2000 watts was included and played the entire audience cheered really loudly and that surprised me becuase I didn't think they knew who the song was by, and there wasn't an impressive dance step being done at the intro of the song starting either

also I can hear a little bit of influence in some artists. Christina's dirrty reminds me of threatened or 2000 watts; senorita by justin reminds me slightly of unbreakable; spending time with you and enjoy by janet remind me of butterflies; movies by ashanti reminds me of heaven can wait and so forth. But mostly I hear mj influences from off the wall through dangerous and even from the jacksons destiny & triumph eras more than the recent stuff though it is there somewhat if you listen carefully.

I disagree with what was said about the cameras in privacy though. N Sync did a song produced by rodney jerkins on their Celebrity album that was also done in an A minor scale and had camera sounds, although it was more dancy, and this was in the first half of 2001, not the second half when invincible was released.

I still think that rodney jerkins gave his stronger material to brandy, toni braxton, n sync, britney, j lo, whitney etc. at the time of working on invincible and if he had shunned all those other artists and focused on michael only it would have been an excellent album and not just a good/satisfactory one
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NorthernLad said:

I disagree. The 1st child molestation accusation scandal was behind him by nearly 10 years and he was sort of poised for a resurgance with his concerts in NY and appearing with N'sync etc.

skywalker said:

I agree. The original accusations were faded to the background, and I remember much buzz was made over a possible comeback. Also, at the time artists like NSYNC and Britney Spears were riding his nuts. Hell, in it's first 2 weeks, YRMW received heavy airplay.

If there was any time for Michael to make a good comeback, the Invincible years were perfect

I am a fan and I couldn't sit through this album once.

^ yeah I agree it's way too long and all over the place. I took out the songs that don't flow well or don't appeal to me much, replaced them with cuts from ultimate collection and it sounds much better as an album.

Invincible was a middle of the pack effort in a genre already defined by younger artists. If anything, MJ's money was able to buy the right producers to give it a contemporary feel.

To say it defined certain pockets of the more modern R&B is a HUGE stretch since he was playing follw the leader by essentially copying artists who copied him.

Be that as it may, it was an average pop album, but a substandard MJ effort.

It's hard to say anything MJ has done is underrated. If anything, he fails to live up to his own lofty expectations and much like his contemporaries, is a shell of his once dominant former self.