Wow this thread went I just love Robert Palmer whether he's singing a cover, happy birthday or Sneaking Sally Through The Alley/

SoulAlive said:

The RP version was a hit on the "Mainstream Rock" chart. This, along with RP's previous singles in the pop/rock categories are no doubt the reason.

panther514 said:

A) They're not 'assumptions'. They are facts according to the official sources (more than just one).

B) I don't idolize the man, I simply choose not to perpetuate slanderous rumor (which is exactly what it is unless you or your "sources" have something concrete and credible to include), particularly about a dead man who can no longer defend himself.

C) Quite a bit of what you've stated so far doesn't add up at all considering we know for a fact Frank was involved in the actual recording session for RP's version.

So, believe gossip if you want but hearsay isn't worth very much, imo. There's not much more for either one of us to add unless some new verifiable bit of info turns up.

jtfolden said:

but that's the thing...I don't think his version is "rock" at all.He was clearly going for an R&B sound on that particular song.His version,in fact,doesn't sound that much different from the System's version.

SoulAlive said:

Yes, but their version wasn't a hit on "Mainstream Rock" was it? That's why I said, along with that, the fact he was a known artist with previous pop/rock hits is no doubt what got him on. It had more to do with his 'stats' than the actual 'sound' of the song itself.

SoulAlive said:

I would say that most Robert Palmer's covers of soul songs were done wholesale with little changes. The only song he covered that didn't sound structurally the same was his version of Cherrelle's "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On," but even with that Palmer's version was played with live instruments vs. Cherrelle's highly synthesized, drum machine-laden one.

jtfolden said:

IMO...It's not gossip if it comes from people who were involved in the story....but like I said before..believe what you want to believe...I am not concerned with trying to change your mind....and you have no shot at changing mine....end of story...hopefully.

panther514 said:

Yeah, but that's not what's happening here...and if those people involved ever come forward to put the story out there for public record, then it might stop being gossip if they could reconcile it with everything else. Right now all you're posting is hearsay.




Yup, pretty much what I said. Thanks.

Najee said:

Yeah,and this is one reason why I didn't like his covers.He didn't really add anything to the songs,and he certainly didn't improve them in any way.I always thought his cover of "I Didn't Mean To Turn You On" was silly Lyrically,it works better for a female to be singing those lyrics,IMO.

jtfolden said:

Perhaps,but somehow I still think it was unfair.Fortunately,MTV soon realized that they were wrong and began "diversifying" their network.It was foolish of them to pretend that they were only interested in "rock" videos,when much of the music they played couldn't really be considered rock,regardless of how it charted.

jtfolden said:

No....Thank you for assuming the role of uber-moderator.

Dang!!

I just like Robert Palmer

SoulAlive said:

It's solely my opinion, but it always came across to me there was an ulterior motive Robert Palmer had for covering some of these soul songs. A lot of them were performed by the original artists not long before Palmer covered them -- there was a two-year difference between Cherrelle's version of "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" and Palmer's; a five-year gap between Jermaine and Michael Jackson's "Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming (Too Good to Be True)" and his; etc. "You Are in My System" has been mentioned ad nauseum.

Moreover, most of the soul songs Palmer covered had no crossover success for the original acts; only The GAP Band's "Early in the Morning" (a song Palmer covered six years after the original version was released) and Marvin Gaye's "Mercy, Mercy Me (The Ecology)/I Want You" medley were hits on the Billboard Hot 100 charts.

It came across that Palmer was making the covers for a new audience, but also confusing the newfound audience into thinking the song was his original composition. "You Are in My System" and "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" are the best examples.
[Edited 2/7/07 10:35am]

panther514 said:

I didn't say anything remotely to do with moderation... but you're probably one of those people that need the last word to make up for having no valid sources to what you claim. That's cool.

Somebody, please...

Najee said:

The motive was that he liked those songs, pretty simple, imo. As i think you've pointed (??) out his most successful tracks were originals so he really didn't need to cover tracks if he didn't like them personally.




How did he 'confuse' the audience vs anyone else who covers a track? The singles/albums were released with the proper credits to the original composers.

RipHer2Shreds said:

oh mother, make it stop. make it stop.

sosgemini said:

HAHAHA!


I'm so stealing that.

jtfolden said:

Save that a lot of the songs Robert Palmer covered had the common trait of being then-recent soul songs by other artists. In some cases, it was songs that literally had come out as singles for the other artists (see The System). It's certainly not coincidental.

jtfolden said:

Quite a few people thought "You Are in My System" was originally Palmer's song when it was released concurrently with The System's. Even now, you have some people who thought The System's version was the copycat and/or never were aware Palmer covered it. A similar confusion happened with "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" (which was one of Palmer's biggest hits), especially from those white audiences who never heard Cherrelle's version and those who were not around when both versions were released.
[Edited 2/7/07 18:45pm]

Najee said:

No offense but I think you're seeing a more malicious intent here by selectively looking at a few select songs. Yes, he covered modern songs, and he liked R&B music obviously, that he heard in clubs or on the radio that were new but he, also, went back and recorded songs that were 5, 10, even 30+ years old. He just plainly picked songs he liked.

Is it that you have a problem with him picking music by 'black artists'?




This seems like a pointless issue to me... you can say that about almost every single cover that anyone has ever done. Someone out there will think it's originally sung by the artist they first hear sing it. This can not be used as an example of RP intentionally going out of his way to make people think it was his originally... Look at Prince covering Joan Osborne's song or him singing All Along The Watchtower/The Best Of You at the Superbowl. You know there are plenty of people in that audience that thought those were his original compositions. Was he intentionally trying to mislead people by covering them?

Also, you can't blame RP if he managed to make bigger hits out of some of those songs than the original artists. (Look what Miss Sinead O'Conner did with Nothing Compares 2 U). I'm sure the original composers don't sit around complaining about the extra $$$.

jtfolden said:

NOW HEAR THIS!!...No more negative comments about RP..this JT person is obviously a relative or something.

panther514 said:

Wow, you must really be upset that your lies about stolen demos didn't go over so easily...
[Edited 2/8/07 2:02am]

I guess this thread isn't gonna die anytime soon,ha ha

jtfolden said:

Let's look at Robert Palmer's prominent history of remaking soul act songs:

"You Are in My System" - it ran concurrently with The System's version. You're talking about a period of weeks.

"Take My Heart (You Can Have It)" - about one year after Kool & The Gang's version was released.

"I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" - roughly two years after Cherrelle's version was released.

"Early in the Morning" - six years after The GAP Band's original release.

"Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" - around four years after Jermaine and Michael Jackson's version.

Outside of his version of Marvin Gaye's "Mercy Mercy Me (the Ecology)" -- which came some 18 years after Gaye's version -- a bulk of Palmer's soul singles covers came shortly after the original versions (and in The System's case, the same time originally). Palmer evidently was trying to capitalize on the relatively recent inroads these songs made to audiences. Let's keep in mind that all of Palmer's remakes of these songs were released as singles.

jtfolden said:

No, because that river flows both ways and I have no problem with white, non-soul artists covering soul songs and soul acts remaking songs popular in other genres. I have a problem with Palmer's because it came across as deliberate attempts to get a hit song off the success of the orginal act's recording. IMO, he really added nothing new to most of the songs he remade -- in a lot of the good remakes, the artists add their own creativity or flair to the composition. It came off that Palmer wanted a hit song on the soul charts that had some recent buzz and he wanted to take it and push it to a white audience.

jtfolden said:

You really are reaching here, especially given the "You Are in My System" situation. Prince's work is associated with original compositions he created, and it's not like he's got a single version of "All Along The Watchtower/The Best Of You" out there, much less has become a hit single. With Palmer, a lot of his remakes came shortly after the other, original version had its run (see "You Are in My System" and "I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" as most prominent examples).
[Edited 2/8/07 7:48am]

Najee said:

Since you mention 'reaching', here's a great example of it. All you are proving is that he likes the genre (old and new). There's a reason people tend to label him a blue-eyed soul singer. It's not unusual for songs to be covered in the time frames you mention. It happens all the time (including the examples I posted already just in Prince's camp alone - like Prince covering One Of Us or Sinead O.Conner covering Nothing Compares 2 U). Furthermore, when the record company did release the tracks as singles, they weren't generally marketed to the same audience so what was there to capitalize on? The originals weren't big hits on Rock stations.



Save for the fact he wasn't marketed to the same audience... Out of all the releases listed at allmusic.com, only 2 deviate from pop/rock/dance. Mercy Mercy Me which scraped the bottom of the R&B chart and Drive which was a top 10 hit album on the Blues Chart. Outside of that, singles are released with the hope to be a hit - no surprise there.



RP spent most of his career as a well dressed lounge lizard, with an interesting voice, singing 'pop' songs. That's it. For the most part his image is one of style over substance and singing songs he already liked. Given all that, it makes perfect sense to me why he wouldn't change them too much... Any flair he added was through his voice and his presentation.

Obviously, we are just going to go around and around about this and it all boils down to opinion. Do you want to keep going round and round or just agree to disagree?

Najee said:[quote]

jtfolden said:

[color=darkred]Let's look at Robert Palmer's prominent history of remaking soul act songs:

"You Are in My System" - it ran concurrently with The System's version. You're talking about a period of weeks.

"Take My Heart (You Can Have It)" - about one year after Kool & The Gang's version was released.

"I Didn't Mean to Turn You On" - roughly two years after Cherrelle's version was released.

"Early in the Morning" - six years after The GAP Band's original release.

"Tell Me I'm Not Dreaming" - around four years after Jermaine and Michael Jackson's version.

2 be honest,I-along with a lot of people,thought You are in my system,I didn't mean to turn..and others were Palmer's songs!!
Except 4 Mercy,mercy off course,it was always mentioned this was a Marvin Gay cover,in case some shouldn't know that!

I have no problem with his covers because that were the hits we,in Europe,knew and liked.
The System or Cherelle never had a hit here,so maybe his plan 2 make hits
with songs written by somebody else worked,so what?
Rod Stewart did/still does this for decades.

I admit;The System story here is a bit strange,but they sure made some money
of it thanx 2 Palmer,here in Europe it was a hit!He did what The System coudn't do overhere.
[Edited 2/8/07 15:59pm]

sosgemini said:

I don't even think Father Merrin can help...



...Be gone! In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirt!


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

Paisley4u said:

...and that's essentially the crux of it. Most of the people in the world don't pay attention to who wrote what, especially in an industry where the singer can't be counted to be the song writer. This isn't the fault of RP and if he took those songs places that others couldn't then that isn't his fault, either, it's his success... and the original composers are laughing all the way to the bank.