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jtfolden said: "You really need to pay attention. The original song was released in 1982 (November, apparently), and RP's version was released in 1983. I never specified a specific time frame other than to give the release dates.
The story The Audience posted also said that there was "battle of the over songs on the radio" and that Robert Palmer's version of "You Are in My System" was released as The System's was moving up the charts. That corresponds with what I said. theAudience said: The next single, "You Are in My System" (November 1982), followed the same pattern by spreading to key markets around the country. Around Christmas, singer Robert Palmer contacted Frank about covering the song on his next album; after discussing the request with Murphy, they agreed to the cover. A cover battle ensued when Palmer released "You Are in My System" as a single at the same time as the original System single, but the System won hands down. In early 1983, the album The System was released.
There is no amibguity with the release of Palmer's version and The System's version. I won't even mention the factual error that the name of The System's first album was "Sweat;" their debut album was not self-titled. [Edited 2/3/07 20:09pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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jtfolden said: I thought RP released his version after the original? According to Allmusic.com the original came out as a single in 1982 and RP's followed in 1983.
As stated, The System's version of "You Are in My System" came out in late 1982 (as in end-of-the-year 1982). The date is misleading because there wasn't a prolonged delay between the release of The System's version and Robert Palmer's version. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: Robert Palmer, on the other hand, was a pop/rock/top 40 act and his version fared much worse on the charts of his respective genre. In fact, The System's version did better on the Billboard Hot 100 charts than Palmer's did (which also calls into question some of the words chosen in one of those articles, which referred to Palmer's version as "a hit").
It was a hit... While it petered out at a rather sad showing of 78 on the pop charts, it reached #4 on "Club Play Singles" and #33 on "Mainstream Rock". Depending on how complete allmusic.com is, that appears to be RP's highest showing on those last two charts up to that point. | |
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jtfolden said: If you remove the rumors and gossip that can't be backed up with a credible source then what is left that doesn't make sense?
Actually, several things still don't fit. 1.) It seems odd that a new act a few weeks after its first single is released would turn around and it give that same song (while it's climbing the charts) to another artist to record and allow it to be released as a single. As stated numerous times, we're not talking about a single that had run its course -- both versions of "You Are in My System" were released concurrently. 2.) Given that, how does The System benefit from giving Robert Palmer the very same song they had released as a single only a few weeks ago? If Palmer's version becomes the bigger success, they are the ones overcoming the potential obstacles. Not to mention it's career suicide, given that they were the new act. 3.) Why would Mirage/Atlantic Records allow The System to give the single the company is promoting to another artist on another record label? Given the bureaucratic red tape recording companies make some acts jump through, I can't see Mirage promoting the same song as a new single and then several weeks later saying, "Here, give this same record we're promoting as your initial single to someone else to release at the same time as his lead single on his new album?" [Edited 2/3/07 20:08pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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jtfolden said: It was a hit... While it petered out at a rather sad showing of 78 on the pop charts, it reached #4 on "Club Play Singles" and #33 on "Mainstream Rock". Depending on how complete allmusic.com is, that appears to be RP's highest showing on those last two charts up to that point.
The song barely charted on the major U.S. chart for its genre (Billboard Hot 100); you can't call Robert Palmer's version a hit. I would be interested to see how The System's version of "You Are in My System" the on the Clubs Play Singles chart. [Edited 2/3/07 20:13pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: As stated, The System's version of "You Are in My System" came out in late 1982 (as in end-of-the-year 1982). The date is misleading because there wasn't a prolonged delay between the release of The System's version and Robert Palmer's version.
I'm not sure why you need to quote a much earlier response but you'll note that was from an area in the thread where Panther was making slanderous statements about RP attempting to steal the track and release it as his own before The System had a chance to copyright or release it themselves. As you must now agree, this was untrue based on the over-abundance of credible sources that have come to light on this thread. Yes, they may have been released in close proximity to each other but the point of the message you quoted was that RP's was released AFTER the original version (therefore after it had received proper copyright protection and a release of it's own). I have never debated the idea that it might have been in bad taste to release them so close together, as that is entirely personal opinion on both sides and not really interesting to me considering the releases were intended for different markets. | |
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jtfolden said: I'm not sure why you need to quote a much earlier response but you'll note that was from an area in the thread where Panther was making slanderous statements about RP attempting to steal the track and release it as his own before The System had a chance to copyright or release it themselves.
As you must now agree, this was untrue based on the over-abundance of credible sources that have come to light on this thread. I didn't pull up a quote from an earlier part of the thread. I've also said from the beginning that Robert Palmer's version of "You Are in My System" was released weeks after The System's was released. jtfolden said: I have never debated the idea that it might have been in bad taste to release them so close together, as that is entirely personal opinion on both sides and not really interesting to me considering the releases were intended for different markets.
It would be a fair assumption to say that if The System did give Robert Palmer the song that there was never any intention for Palmer's version to be released at the same time as The System's. THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: 1.) It seems odd that a new act a few weeks after its first single would turn around and it give that same song (while it's climbing the charts) to another artist to record and allow it to be released as a single. As stated numerous times, we're not talking about a single that had run its course -- both versions of "You Are in My System" were released concurrently.
2.) Given that, how does The System benefit from giving Robert Palmer the very same song they had released as a single only a few weeks ago? If Palmer's version becomes the bigger success, they are the ones overcoming the potential obstacles. Not to mention it's career suicide, given that they were the new act. These two really seem to be concerned with the same issue... RP recording and releasing the track is money in the composer's pockets. If you look at the data that TheAudience posted, it seems like Frank and Murphy had the opinion that the $35k they received from the record label might be the last big wad of cash they saw. If a semi-popular artist came along and wanted to record one of your songs and potentially earn you loads more cash, why would you turn it down if you had that mindset? Imagine if their single/album had flopped and they had then turned RP down as well? 3.) Why would Mirage/Atlantic Records allow The System to give the single the company is promoting to another artist on another record label? Given the bureaucratic red tape recording companies make some acts jump through, I can't see Mirage promoting the same song as a new single and then several weeks later saying, "Here, give this same record we're promoting as your initial single to someone else to release at the same time as his lead single on his new album?"
No one gave "the single" to another label. Apparently, according to copyright law (as discussed via a previous link), anyone can cover a composition after it's release. Depending on the contracts with Murphy and Frank, the label may even have received money for letting Frank perform/appear on RP's album. | |
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Najee said: jtfolden said: It was a hit... While it petered out at a rather sad showing of 78 on the pop charts, it reached #4 on "Club Play Singles" and #33 on "Mainstream Rock". Depending on how complete allmusic.com is, that appears to be RP's highest showing on those last two charts up to that point.
That's questionable to call a pop song that doesn't factor on the Billboard Hot 100 a hit song. Since you pulled it up, compare that with The System's other chart showings, particularly on the Clubs Play Singles chart. [Edited 2/3/07 19:49pm] No, it is NOT questionable at all. Now, if someone said it was a 'major pop hit' then that would be questionable but many artist's entire careers include hits from secondary charts. The Club Play Singles chart is a lifeline for certain artists, for example. In this particular case it was a Club/Dance Hit. The Systems version reached #14 on Club Play Singles, #10 on Black Singles, and number #64 on Pop Singles. | |
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jtfolden said: These two really seem to be concerned with the same issue... RP recording and releasing the track is money in the composer's pockets. If you look at the data that TheAudience posted, it seems like Frank and Murphy had the opinion that the $35k they received from the record label might be the last big wad of cash they saw. If a semi-popular artist came along and wanted to record one of your songs and potentially earn you loads more cash, why would you turn it down if you had that mindset? Imagine if their single/album had flopped and they had then turned RP down as well?
The only question is the timing -- namely, The System's version of "You Are in My System." The group just signed a record deal and just released its first single. That theory makes a lot of sense if The System's version had just run its course, but the song was out all of one month when according to that link Robert Palmer asked to make a cover of it. I can't see a group so desperate that it would sabotage potentially its career before it started. jtfolden said: No one gave "the single" to another label. Apparently, according to copyright law (as discussed via a previous link), anyone can cover a composition after it's release. Depending on the contracts with Murphy and Frank, the label may even have received money for letting Frank perform/appear on RP's album.
The problem is that The System's version of "You Are in My System" was literally moving up the charts around the time Palmer's version was coming out. You still had the issue of Mirage/Atlantic willing let another act on another label record the very same song it was promoting at that time. Record labels usually don't allow that, especially in those circumstances. I may have to take the "L" on this one, if you don't mind. Good discussion. [Edited 2/3/07 20:34pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: I didn't pull up a quote from an earlier part of the thread.
Yes, you did... in post #91 you went all the way back to quote me from #45... that's half way up the thread when the discussion was focusing on a different bit of gossip. No biggie, just found it odd. I've also said from the beginning that Robert Palmer's version of "You Are in My System" was released weeks after The System's was released.
and? My only point was that RP's was released after, legally (and with approval)... I'll agree that it's *unusual* for two artists to have the same single out in such a short time frame but it wasn't due to 'stealing' as was originally said. It would be a fair assumption to say
See what I meant earlier... just like "A logical explanation could be...", "It's not unreasonable to say...". 
that if The System did give Robert Palmer the song that there was never any intention for Palmer's version to be released at the same time as The System's.
Who's to say? We have no credible data indicating there was any hard feelings over it and I'm sure Frank was happy with the extra royalty money at the time. We, also, don't know WHO'S idea it was to release it as a single. It could have been RP or it could have been RP's record label. | |
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jtfolden said: Who's to say? We have no credible data indicating there was any hard feelings over it and I'm sure Frank was happy with the extra royalty money at the time. We, also, don't know WHO'S idea it was to release it as a single. It could have been RP or it could have been RP's record label.
Like I said, the closest I ever heard of The System showing any reaction to Robert Palmer's version is what a DJ and a program director said when they asked The System about Robert Palmer's version of "You Are in My System." They abruptly refused to talk about it, so who knows? Like I said, good discussion. Take care. [Edited 2/3/07 20:41pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: The only question is the timing -- namely, The System's version of "You Are in My System." The group just signed a record deal and just released its first single.
Actually, YAIMS was their second single, not that it's really here or there. I can't see a group so desperate that it would sabotage potentially its career before it started.
...but we can't speak about that as we aren't in their heads and there's really no point. Frank, Murphy and RP could have spent days hashing out a proper, fair deal. Either way, an opinion or assumption can't be used to discredit the sources we've seen. You still had the issue of Mirage/Atlantic willing let another act on another label record the very same song it was promoting at that time.
Do you have something that indicates Mirage/Atlantic had control over the copyright of the track in question? They may have owned the master but probably not the copyright. According to : http://www.vocalist.org.u...songs.html " Once a song has been commercially released by an artist, that artist's song may be re-recorded and released by anyone who chooses to do so. This holds true, provided that the melody/lyric isn't substantially altered in the "cover" version, and that they pay proper fees/royalties directly to the song's copyright holder." I may have to take the "L" on this one, if you don't mind. Good discussion.
What's "L" mean? Loss? I don't look at it as winning or loosing... I just look at it as the fact that I learned a new bit of gossip today and then I learned the real truth behind it. The next time it comes up, if ever, I'll be a little more knowledgable about a trivial topic than I was before.  | |
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jtfolden said: "Actually, YAIMS was their second single, not that it's really here or there."
"It's Passion" was released as a club single before The System recorded its first album. "You Are in My System" was the lead single from the just-completed album, "Sweat." I guess technically "It's Passion" could be considered a first single, but it was recorded before The System had a deal to record a full-length album. Like I said, I bought the album when it was released. The story also had several other errors in it (like misnaming The System's first album), so not all the information was accurately verified. But that's not neither here or there -- though to say there are some obvious factual errors in some of the information. jtfolden said: "Do you have something that indicates Mirage/Atlantic had control over the copyright of the track in question? They may have owned the master but probably not the copyright."
I'll look on the back of the album "Sweat" -- both the original LP and the CD version of it -- to confirm it. OK, here's what is on the back of it: "Mirage Records Inc. Distributed by Atlantic Recording Corp (insert address). Copyright 1983 Mirage Records Inc., except 'You Are in My System' and 'Now I Am Electric' copyright 1982 Mirage Records Inc. All rights reserved." [Edited 2/3/07 21:56pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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jtfolden said: Najee said: As stated, The System's version of "You Are in My System" came out in late 1982 (as in end-of-the-year 1982). The date is misleading because there wasn't a prolonged delay between the release of The System's version and Robert Palmer's version.
I'm not sure why you need to quote a much earlier response but you'll note that was from an area in the thread where Panther was making slanderous statements about RP attempting to steal the track and release it as his own before The System had a chance to copyright or release it themselves. As you must now agree, this was untrue based on the over-abundance of credible sources that have come to light on this thread. Yes, they may have been released in close proximity to each other but the point of the message you quoted was that RP's was released AFTER the original version (therefore after it had received proper copyright protection and a release of it's own). I have never debated the idea that it might have been in bad taste to release them so close together, as that is entirely personal opinion on both sides and not really interesting to me considering the releases were intended for different markets. I can't believe that this debate is still going on....I heard the story from 2 people who were involved in the situation...I even had to call one of them today to have him go over the story again...Believe what you wish...but there was a major issue with Palmer releasing that single at the time...The System and the label were not happy with Palmer's version being released so soon after theirs was released....again...you believe what you want to believe. "I wasn't invited to shake hands with Hitler, but I wasn't invited to the White House to shake hands with the President, either" ~ Jesse Owens | |
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panther514 said: I can't believe that this debate is still going on....I heard the story from 2 people who were involved in the situation...I even had to call one of them today to have him go over the story again...Believe what you wish...but there was a major issue with Palmer releasing that single at the time...The System and the label were not happy with Palmer's version being released so soon after theirs was released....again...you believe what you want to believe.
Like I said, even if David Frank and Mic Murphy willing agreed to let Robert Palmer cover "You Are in My System," there are some other issues that seem questionable, as I stated before. I can see a situation where The System let Palmer do a cover with some understanding it would not be released until after their version ran its course, and then Palmer and/or Island Records reneged and released their version to capitalize on any momentum The System's version had. [Edited 2/3/07 22:03pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: OK, here's what is on the back of it: "Mirage Records Inc. Distributed by Atlantic Recording Corp (insert address). Copyright 1983 Mirage Records Inc., except 'You Are in My System' and 'Now I Am Electric' copyright 1982 Mirage Records Inc. All rights reserved."
I'm talking about the specific composition in the copyright database... it probably lists Murphy/Frank rather than Mirage records. Just like a Prince release might say copyright WB Records on the back of the album but a given composition would be to Prince. | |
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panther514 said: I can't believe that this debate is still going on....I heard the story from 2 people who were involved in the situation...I even had to call one of them today to have him go over the story again...Believe what you wish...but there was a major issue with Palmer releasing that single at the time...The System and the label were not happy with Palmer's version being released so soon after theirs was released....again...you believe what you want to believe.
Okay, I can agree that having both singles out in the same time frame might cause friction after the fact *but* it has been established that RP asked for approval to cover the track and that Frank/Murphy approved, and that Frank joined in the recording sessions. It is this part that you have been wrong about the entire thread, and I quote: panther514 said: "Palmer ripped off the demo from The System (who were in the process of applying for the copyrights) and raced to put his version out"
"pilfering Palmer" "recording a song that was a demo of someone else before they could copyright and release it...is stealing" "Palmer had the song recorded BEFORE The System had a chance to release their version of the song...they actually had to release it earlier than they had planned because of it...Palmer somehow got a DEMO of the song...not something that he heard on the radio and decided to cover...knowing that it wasn't copyrighted...he knew he could put it out without repercussions...in laymans terms...he stole it" "Frank and Murphy had to move up the release date for their single after finding out about Palmers hijacked version...with the song not yet copywritten when Palmer recorded it....there was really nothing they could do to stop it" RP did not rip off a demo. RP did not attempt to steal the song RP did not take advantage of a pre-released song RP did not steal the song before it was copyrighted RP did not record the track without Frank/Murphy's knowledge RP did not have it recorded before The System released theirs Najee's recent post, also, illustrates that The Systems recorded version as it appeared on their album was copyright 1982. RP did hear the track in a club after it was released in November 1982 RP did ask for permission to record said track in December 1982 RP did GET approval to record said track RP did record the track with Frank present in the studio and contributing RP did release it after The System's version was released Now that that's out of the way, the only issue left is whether The System and/or their label were displeased when RP and/or his label chose to use that track as a single an extremely short while later, however... we can not call anyone a thief in this situation or say anyone 'reneged' on an imaginary promise because it is perfectly legal to release a cover after the original has been released. | |
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Najee said: I can see a situation where
You're doing it again...
The System let Palmer do a cover with some understanding it would not be released until after their version ran its course, and then Palmer and/or Island Records reneged and released their version to capitalize on any momentum The System's version had.
This is introducing speculation that just turns into rumor/gossip. We just don't know if there was any specific understanding on this issue. Their label could have been angry as h*ll about the single release but it in no way amounts to thievery. The Systems single was already out as of November 1982, obviously and was already a single when RP recorded it with Frank. | |
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jtfolden said: I'm talking about the specific composition in the copyright database... it probably lists Murphy/Frank rather than Mirage records. Just like a Prince release might say copyright WB Records on the back of the album but a given composition would be to Prince.
All the compositions were produced, arranged, composed and performed by The System. [Edited 2/3/07 22:33pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: All the compositions were produced, arranged, composed and performed by The System.
Then, unless someone knows otherwise, there is currently no indication that the record label had any ownership over the composition itself and therefore it was solely owned by the original composers (and RP's "Pride" album lists the composers as Frank/Murphy). | |
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jtfolden said: RP did not rip off a demo.
RP did not attempt to steal the song RP did not take advantage of a pre-released song RP did not steal the song before it was copyrighted RP did not record the track without Frank/Murphy's knowledge RP did not have it recorded before The System released theirs Najee's recent post, also, illustrates that The Systems recorded version as it appeared on their album was copyright 1982. RP did hear the track in a club after it was released in November 1982 RP did ask for permission to record said track in December 1982 RP did GET approval to record said track RP did record the track with Frank present in the studio and contributing RP did release it after The System's version was released Now that that's out of the way, the only issue left is whether The System and/or their label were displeased when RP and/or his label chose to use that track as a single an extremely short while later, however... If the story went down the way it was posted in that link by TheAudience, then it's hard for The System to be mad at Robert Palmer and his record company for releasing his version of "You Are in My System." If The System gave him the song under those conditions, they should have seen that as a possibility he would release it as a single. Not all the other parts fit quite smoothly (particularly the Mirage/Atlantic angle), but that's another part of the discussion. [Edited 2/3/07 22:54pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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jtfolden said: Then, unless someone knows otherwise, there is currently no indication that the record label had any ownership over the composition itself and therefore it was solely owned by the original composers (and RP's "Pride" album lists the composers as Frank/Murphy).
The System owned its own compositions under its production wing, Science Lab Productions, and the copyright for its songs on "Sweat" was under Green Star Music/Science Lab Music. [Edited 2/3/07 22:55pm] THE TRAFFIC JAMMERS, The Org's house band: VAINANDY -- lead singer; NAJEE -- bass; THE AUDIENCE -- guitar; PHUNKDADDY -- rhythm guitar; ALEX de PARIS -- keyboards; Da PRETTYMAN -- keyboards; FUNKENSTEIN -- drums. HOLD ON TO YOUR DRAWERS! |
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Najee said: The System owned its own composition under Science Lab Productions and the copyright for its songs on "Sweat" was under Green Star Music/Science Lab Music.
There you go then... What Mirage/Atlantic had control over was the physical recording (master) of the tracks. | |
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As an up and coming group, I can see why the System would want RP to cover the song. It is win win situation. If my version of the song does well, then that great. If it does not and his does well, then that's great too. Since I am credited as one of the song writers, I could do nothing else but win. This type of thing has been done before. Look at the song, "I Swear", by All 4 One. The original version ofthe song was done by, David Alexander. Both versions were released within a year of each other. The orginal version, did not fair as well as their version, but in the end.....it did not really matter. I would have to say the same things goes for the RP version of "Your in My System". He knew a good song when he heard it. Let's say the Time wanted to do a cover of the song, who you still have a problem with it, Najee? "Love is like peeing in your pants, everyone sees it but only you feel its warmth" |
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panther514 said: SoulAlive said: To make matters worse,MTV placed the Robert Palmer video in heavy rotation but didn't show the System at all  At the time,I thought this was really unfair.Unfair and foul...It was their first big hit...and they should have been able to enjoy the full success of it....but had to split it with pilfering Palmer's version...he was no different than Pat Boone hijacking Little Richard and everyone elses successful R&B songs. What's odd is that,at the time,MTV was insisting that they were only showing rock videos.But then you had artists like Robert Palmer who were clearly trying to venture into R&B.His version of "You Are In My System" is not that different from the System's version.I can't see why MTV didn't show the System. | |
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theAudience said: I've got no dog in this fight/discussion, but I do remember reading certain things about The System/David Frank in general and this tune (You Are In My System) in particular.
The reason why the "Bio" may have any credence is because they are generally cleared by the artist (or their representative) prior to it being made public. The Electronic Musician interview with David Frank speaks for itself. From David Frank's Artist Bio page on the Yamaha site... About a year and a half later, Frank got a break when Atlantic Records soul/funk band Kleer enlisted him as their tour keyboardist. The band's road manager, Mic (Mike) Murphy, asked Frank to play on some sessions he was recording with friends. Up to that point, Frank didn't know that Murphy could sing. Collecting on studio time that he had bartered for in exchange for playing on sessions, Frank started on a track called "It's Passion" in which a pre-stardom Madonna was slated to do the vocals, but because of creative differences, she bowed out. Remembering Murphy, Frank invited him to his loft to work on the track. Murphy revamped the lyrics and melody and the two went into the studio, recorded the song in one day, and stayed up all night mixing the record. After their overnight session, Murphy took the master tape to an engineer friend who transferred the tape onto a 12" acetate record and suggested he take it over to Jerry Greenberg's Mirage Records, a subsidiary of Atlantic. The next day, Murphy called to tell Frank that the duo had a record deal; in two days, Murphy came up with the name the System, and within three weeks, "It's Passion" was receiving massive radio airplay in New York. The next single, "You Are in My System" (November 1982), followed the same pattern by spreading to key markets around the country. Around Christmas, singer Robert Palmer contacted Frank about covering the song on his next album; after discussing the request with Murphy, they agreed to the cover. A cover battle ensued when Palmer released "You Are in My System" as a single at the same time as the original System single, but the System won hands down. In early 1983, the album The System was released; by this time, Murphy and Frank were being stopped on the streets of New York for their autographs. ...http://www.yamaha.com/Art...T,00.html# =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= This is an excerpt from an April 2000 Electronic Musician interview with David Frank... Like many great inventions, the System was born of necessity and serendipitous timing. Frank recalls the events that led to his fortuitous pairing with Murphy: "One day I got a call from Lou Bolognese, who owned a 24-track studio in Long Island. He wanted me to do a session as a favor, and he offered me some studio time in return. I thought I'd just do some demos and sample commercials with the time, but Lou said, 'Why don't you do a song? You know, a dance song, a 12-inch. Just get a singer, you can do it!'" Frank programmed a song in a few weeks, but he still needed a singer. Why not ask the girl upstairs? he thought. "The girl upstairs was Madonna," Frank explains. "This was in 1981, before she had a record deal. We were in a pickup band together, and she was the singer. We rehearsed in the same building, called the Music Building, on 37th Street and 8th Avenue. I was actually paid to write with her. I made $30 for four hours of work," he laughs. Frank had only the title for the song, "Crimes of Passion." He brought in the future mogul to write some words and a melody. Then fate intervened. "We were all set to do it. But the night before we were going to cut the song, Madonna called me and asked if Steve Bray, her drummer, could be in on the session as coproducer. "I love Steve, but I knew he would want to put guitars on the track. I had visualized it as a synth-only song, which was still a bit of a novelty at that time." The conflict meant that Madonna was out. "I called up Mic Murphy, a singer I knew," Frank continues. "He wrote a new melody for the song and changed the words to 'In Times of Passion.' We recorded and mixed all of it in one day. He took it to a friend of his, who cut an acetate, a 12-inch, and we got a record deal with Atlantic the next day." Within a month, the System, as the two had hastily dubbed themselves, had a hit song. Not long after, their label (Atlantic Records' Mirage imprint) wanted another, and gave the duo a budget of $35,000. "We thought that might be the last amount of money we ever got, so we decided to keep most of it for ourselves and make the record as cheaply as possible. We kept $10,000 each, so we could only spend $15,000 on the album. Of course, we were doing it all by ourselves, so we could get away with that amount." One of the best-known songs from those sessions is 1982's "You Are in My System," a song that would become a hit for both the System and, later, singer Robert Palmer. Suddenly, Frank was in demand. http://emusician.com/mag/emusic_bottle/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Don't know if this will add any clarity to the discussion or just murky up the waters further. For the record, I heard the song by The System and purchased the LP... 
...Sweat (which I still have) long before I knew that Robert Palmer covered the tune. Interesting article.I never knew that Madonna had a connection to the System.The song "Crimes Of Passion" appears on the CD 'Pre-Madonna',a collection of early demos by her.It's a good song. | |
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jtfolden said: panther514 said: I can't believe that this debate is still going on....I heard the story from 2 people who were involved in the situation...I even had to call one of them today to have him go over the story again...Believe what you wish...but there was a major issue with Palmer releasing that single at the time...The System and the label were not happy with Palmer's version being released so soon after theirs was released....again...you believe what you want to believe.
Okay, I can agree that having both singles out in the same time frame might cause friction after the fact *but* it has been established that RP asked for approval to cover the track and that Frank/Murphy approved, and that Frank joined in the recording sessions. It is this part that you have been wrong about the entire thread, and I quote: panther514 said: "Palmer ripped off the demo from The System (who were in the process of applying for the copyrights) and raced to put his version out"
"pilfering Palmer" "recording a song that was a demo of someone else before they could copyright and release it...is stealing" "Palmer had the song recorded BEFORE The System had a chance to release their version of the song...they actually had to release it earlier than they had planned because of it...Palmer somehow got a DEMO of the song...not something that he heard on the radio and decided to cover...knowing that it wasn't copyrighted...he knew he could put it out without repercussions...in laymans terms...he stole it" "Frank and Murphy had to move up the release date for their single after finding out about Palmers hijacked version...with the song not yet copywritten when Palmer recorded it....there was really nothing they could do to stop it" RP did not rip off a demo. RP did not attempt to steal the song RP did not take advantage of a pre-released song RP did not steal the song before it was copyrighted RP did not record the track without Frank/Murphy's knowledge RP did not have it recorded before The System released theirs Najee's recent post, also, illustrates that The Systems recorded version as it appeared on their album was copyright 1982. RP did hear the track in a club after it was released in November 1982 RP did ask for permission to record said track in December 1982 RP did GET approval to record said track RP did record the track with Frank present in the studio and contributing RP did release it after The System's version was released Now that that's out of the way, the only issue left is whether The System and/or their label were displeased when RP and/or his label chose to use that track as a single an extremely short while later, however... we can not call anyone a thief in this situation or say anyone 'reneged' on an imaginary promise because it is perfectly legal to release a cover after the original has been released. You are basing ALL of your "assumptions"on an article written years AFTER the big stink about this was made....years AFTER the fences were mended between the two parties....but I got the story from a couple of horses mouths that were in the same stable.....at the time that it all went down...Palmer was refered to as a "bloodsucking thief" around the offices of Mirage/Atlantic...we can sugarcoat it all you want...and I'm sorry if he is your relative or someone that you idolized ....it's commendable that you are defending him as vigorously as you are but what happened, happened. "I wasn't invited to shake hands with Hitler, but I wasn't invited to the White House to shake hands with the President, either" ~ Jesse Owens | |
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duplicate [Edited 2/5/07 11:09am] "I wasn't invited to shake hands with Hitler, but I wasn't invited to the White House to shake hands with the President, either" ~ Jesse Owens | |
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duplicate [Edited 2/5/07 11:10am] "I wasn't invited to shake hands with Hitler, but I wasn't invited to the White House to shake hands with the President, either" ~ Jesse Owens | |
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