Najee is 110% correct.

The credit should go to Timberland and Pharrell. Justin is just cashing in the fact he can sell to black radio and White audiences. If those same beats and production was given to Ginuwine the hits would not be as big because whites would not buy into it because Ginuwine is not white. That is reality.

Justin is the new Elvis. I don't hate him for it. Thats just the way it is.

As far as the superbowl "Performance"goes, it was a bad decision on both Janet and Justin to even try to Out Stunt Madonna. Janet hyped the end of the Performance to the media before she even took to the stage so She and Justin both knew what was going to happen. Even if the lace was still there you would have been able to see the nipple and "ring". Still a bad decision.

Even worse was the Racist media reation. If Justin was Black and Janet was White there would have been a completely different focus by the media. Example exchange Justin for Usher, Nelly, P.Diddy R. Kelly, Etc. Now Exhange Janet with Britney. The Black man would have been portrayed as the aggressor and Britney the poor virginal pure lilly white victim. The Male's career would have been over and Britney would have gotten a bump in publicity. That is reality.

Justin skated away laughing and Janet was left to defend herself alone to the media which was all too happy to hound her. Justin had the opportunity to show some integrity and stand up and take some of the heat, but he ran away like a coward. Now he is just cashing in on black radio.

I will not buy his records (I'll just download them off of Torrents). I own all of Janet's albums and have enjoyed them all.

Janet deserves credit for all of her albums, as well as her producers. It's easy to see what she brings to the table when an album is made. With Justin all he seems to bring is crossover appeal and some dance steps. Usher, Ginuwine and Sisqo can all sing better than Justin and all can dance better than Justin. Justin just sells more records because he is White. Nuff Said

Najee said:

Those are the white soul artist that I love. Timberfake just comes across as being a big fake to me...he's all goody goody goody 5 years ago, now he's all soulful, BS!

roundables said:

Justin has said more than once that he had a crush on Halle Berry and Janet, plus he did date Tatyana Ali from "Fresh Prince" before dating Britney, so I'm not going to say that he doesn't appreciate sistahs. Oh, here we go again with that Super Bowl shit I refuse to place blame on either Justin or Janet, because that whole show was revolting from start to finish. I didn't see anybody pointing fingers at Puffy for grabbing on his dancers or Nelly for grabbing on his nuts; and what the fuck was up with that American flag poncho that Kid Rock was sportin?!?! I'm not going to be biased and point the finger at just one person for "damaging our children's eyes and minds" (whatever the fuck that means). They all deserved the blame for that one, but Janet was the only one who got shitted on and she dealt with it...just proving that she obviously has more balls then all four of these asses put together. I do agree that it was fucked up that Justin left Janet hanging like that, but he did the same shit to Britney and is doing it to Cameron now, so I don't think it had anything to do with him picking on just Janet. Justin just so happens to be a punk ass biotch at times, but out of all the artists out right now, I'm amazed that he actually picks up a guitar and sits at a piano and seems to have somewhat of an idea as to how to use the two. He may not be the best at it, but he is a good performer, who actually performs more with a live band than a backing track . I have to give him credit, because he seems to really love what he's doing, despite all the people who talk mad shit about him. I remember when people were talking shit about how Eminem wasn't a credible rapper, but how that changed. Many people said that Micheal wouldn't make it without the Jackson 5, but he did. People said that Madonna was a fad, but 25+ years later she's still doing her thing. And don't even get me started on all the shit I've heard about Prince being over in the late 90s. Every good artist has had a point in their careers where they weren't accepted, but only time will tell if Justin does fit into that category. For now, I have to say that I ain't mad at the dude for getting on stage and having a good time performing.

Najee said:

-----
The charts are littered with acts that are barely selling music and I-Tunes reported a 40% drop in downloads over the christmas holidays.

Kids under the age of 12 are buying this crap and it looks like it is mainly for the ringtone.

I can't help it if you are fan of a dying musical genre and are looking for a
mediocre artist like Justin Timberlake as some sort of musical savior.

calling justin a genius because his album is good is like calling coca-cola a genius because your can of soda is good.

the product is not its creator.

laurarichardson said:

First, you need to work on your reading comprehension because I don't look at Justin Timberlake as some savior to a music genre that is hardly "dying." In fact, you're evidently the only person who hasn't read what I've said about Timberlake as being harsh -- but somehow in SUPPORT of his music?

Let's keep in mind that acts like Timberlake and Nelly Furtado -- who definitely use the same creators as what would be called soul acts -- WOULD NOT BE COUNTED AS SOUL ACTS, despite obviously incorporating those elements into the music.

Second, sales in music genres are cyclical and mostly depends on the interest in the product. The music industry in general has seen large sales declines, and some genres are more sensitive than others. In this case, a genre traditionally dominated by black artists and listeners that have had an influx in white listeners over the past few years who now seem to have a backlash against said musical style. This is no different than in the late 1970s to early 1980s.

Third, those charts are littered with acts with platinum and multi-platinum albums -- and yes, that would include white acts incorporating the styles of popular black acts BUT WOULD NOT COUNTED AMONG THE NUMBER.

What you call a "dying genre" is what I call "white audiences apparently aren't buying the music of black contemporary artists as much as they were a few years ago." The premise you're implying -- that black Americans aren't buying the contemporary popular they are creating -- sounds too preposterous, because it's very evident that there are plenty of black Americans in the industry and radio stations with soul and/or hip-hop formats are playing their music. The core audience is still there -- it's the temporary audience that is likely leaving.

But hey, I like your misinterpration and misinformation -- it's up there with the person saying more white people buy more soul and hip-hop music than black people. You're posting information in a vacuum, while not applying any context.
[Edited 1/30/07 8:26am]

estelle81 said:

Even if this is all true -- and it's nothing but unsubstantiated gossip initiated by you -- what relevance or impact should this have on Justin Timberlake's career? That he should have some "ghetto pass?" Halle Berry is pretty much the default black (or in her case, half-black) woman by white society in the United States for a standard of beauty -- so what that he name drops?

Hell, what if some black male artist like Tyrese, R. Kelly or Joe was on a televison show and he said he was "down with all the snow bunnies" -- should that give him credibility with a white audience? He would be crucified in the media, faster than you can say "Isaiah Washington." I swear, talk about a racial double standard.

PS: Tatyana Ali dated Jonathan Brandis, the actor who committed suicide in 2003.
[Edited 1/30/07 7:38am]

Anx said:

... but damn I love coca-cola. y'unnastand?

WillieDynamite said:

Exactly, and despite this incredible media push Justin Timberlake receives for copping the "white boy aping black artists" role (who only has had one Top 10 Billboard R&B single, but plenty of Hot 100 Top 10 singles) he still cannot move units on the levels of Usher. In fact, the only difference between Timberlake and Jon B. is that Jon B.'s marketing was the opposite of Timberlake's -- Jon B. tried to capture a black audience first before trying to cross over into a white audience.

The reality is that the production talents are what have sold Timberlake's music -- he's only as good as the people who give him his sound.
[Edited 1/30/07 6:51am]

CinisterCee said:

but who IS this mysterious "coca-cola" who gives up oceans of his or her own precious fluids for our refreshment? how can we ever repay this selfless entity? a dollar in a vending machine does not seem like enough.

Anx said:

"
I'm pretty sure you have a reason why the Billboard 200 album charts are littered with such acts, as well. "

Did you not type the about statement?
Unless the charts are going to cease to exsist music will appear on it. What you will not acknowledge is that fact that Rnb music and hip-hop are selling at an all time low.

Never before has RnB and Hip-Hop been the least popular music. I am not sure why this is so difficult for you to grasp. It is not a cycle it is an on going trend.

I don't think white people are buying and I don't think black people are buying to much of either.

-----

Najee said:

It's a good thing that record sales are down.People are finally fed up with all that crap

Najee said

First off, sweethart, there was a whole episode of TRL about 4 years ago where Justin said how much he liked Halle Barry, so she came out and surprised him...so you might want to re-think that "gossip" statement before you try to kick an attitude with me. Second, I'm not the one who brought up the topic of whether Justin liked sistahs or not, that was someone else, so why don't you ride that person's ass about "what relevance or impact this has on his career". Thirdly, what female African-Amercan celebrity in Hollywood nowadays is 100% black? Beyonce's mom is creole; and creole people aren't 100% black (least not the ones I grew up with; and I was born and raised in Louisiana), so Beyonce has some white in her to, now just so I have no reason to call you biased, say that shit about her. "Ghetto Pass" ...I hate that "ghetto pass" shit! For me all it says is that (1)Only black people live in ghettos, which is not a 100% true and (2) it makes the ghetto sound like a great place to be, which it isn't. All the people I know that grew up in the ghetto didn't like it there and definitely don't want to go back. Anyone who thinks a "ghetto pass" is a good thing is seriously confused. Plus, I don't think Justin would have had any trouble selling his first album to all those Nsync fans (which I'm pretty sure that the majority of them weren't black), but he decided to cover all areas and not leave out black audiences, which he could have done and probably still have gone platinum with all those Nsync fans buying it. He made an album and marketed it to everybody. Whitney Houston didn't market her first album to black people and she got major shit for that. My interpretation of what you're saying is that Justin shouldn't have worried about doing album promotion on black programs...which I find to be stupid and sad. "Gone" was a popular song on 106 and Park, so I don't think they had a problem with him being there.



If Tyrese, Joe, or R. Kelly went on TV and said they were down with "snow bunnies", I don't think it would be just white people who would have shit to say. I remember hearing more than one black person saying that OJ shouldn't have married that white woman. Personally, I don't give two shits and a corndog if these three wanted to marry their left hands. If their left hands make them happy, then congratulations. For some reason, you must have it in your head that I think Justin deserves credibility from a black audience because he said that he "appreciated sistahs", which would make you totally wrong. I give him credit for performing music that he likes. If he went from doing Nsync to a blues album, a country album, or a heavy metal album and it was what he wanted to do, I would still give him credit for doing what makes him happy. I also don't care about anything Isaiah Washington had to say, because if people aren't willing to forgive him the way they forgave Mel Gibson and Micheal Richards, than that's their problems. They all said stupid shit, but they weren't the first ones to do this, nor will they be the last, so people need to get over it and move on.




PSS: No shit
PSSS: And Grace Jones had a baby with Dolph Lundgren; and Diana Ross married a white billionaire who also died tragically...so what's your point?
[Edited 2/1/07 2:42am]

interesting discussion y'all are having!

He's nothing but a good-for-nothing twerp.

Moonbeam said:

that pretty much sums it up

Najee said:

I agree with U!
First he agree's 2 start some controversy,this was well planned,
and then he runs away from it!
Maybe they didin't expect a reaction this negative from the public?

Anyway,I have 2 kind of records in my collection:
1.the great artists/performers/songwriters including Prince,Stevie,TTD,
George Michael,MJ,and others....
2.The fun section,good performers or good producers who just make great music,
maybe they sell out or have a magnificent marketing machine behind them,
or maybe they do have a great voice or are the CEO of rap,
I don't care,music can be fun 2!!! : JT,Mariah Carey,Beyonce,Pharell,Timbaland,Usher,PCD,Jay-Z,2PAC,Jamiroquai and plenty of others..

I enjoy the second category as much as the first,but I know there is a difference in their approach of music!

estelle81 said:

And of course, Halle Berry is the unofficial default black woman of standard of beauty as defined by white society -- it's pretty much a given if any white person is going to concede there is an attractive black woman, Berry's name is going to pop up. Or in Berry's case, half-black.

Again, it's a calculated statement by Justin Timberlake to gain some appeal from potential black music buyers. You don't hear Carrie Underwood proclaiming "I love all my nubian brothers" out of the blue. Why else would someone just state or answer some question like that out of the blue? As another person said, Timberlake's very public dating choices (Britney Spears, Cameron Diaz) suggest otherwise.

estelle81 said:

You mean besides the likes of Angela Bassett, Nia Long, Vivica A. Fox, Vanessa L. Williams, Gabrielle Union, etc.? I'm sorry, isn't Janet Jackson black? Or is that (with the possible exception of Jackson) their names generally aren't thrown out by white society as their definition of beautiful black women that made you overlook them?

estelle81 said:

It's simply a euphemism for "being accepted by the black American community on some level." I didn't ask for the "white people defining black culture phenomenon" definition.

estelle81 said:

The reality is that Justin Timberlake isn't trying "not to leave out audiences" as much as he's using whatever musical style that is popular. In this case, it's producers like Timbaland and Pharrell.

estelle81 said:

That's funny, I recall it being the opposite for Whitney Houston's debut album. Songs like "You Give Good Love" and "Saving All My Love for You" were No. 1 Billboard R&B Singles songs and were played heavily in radio station rotations, as well as doing well in sales. Maybe you're thinking of her second album, "Whitney," which got panned in soul music markets.

estelle81 said:

No, you interpreted it incorrectly. Timberlake is simply using whatever musical style is popular; whether it is a style dominant in another genre is somewhat secondary.

estelle81 said:

Which makes it a double standard. A white male can get on TV saying he has a fake "weakness for the sistahs" and it's applauded by black and white communities. If someone like Tyrese or Joe said they "were down with snow bunnies," he would catch heat from both communities. You simply choose to ignore the reality.

estelle81 said:

Timberlake's primary focus is selling albums -- he's an artist who will use any style that is popular to sell those albums. Whether he appreciates the genre (if he does) is secondary.

estelle81 said:

Uh, that Tatyana Ali didn't date Justin Timberlake?
[Edited 2/1/07 5:16am]

Grace and Dolph had a baby?





Nope still can't believe it...

rainman1985 said:

Yeah,I didn't know that she was a mother

y'know, 'sexyback' is odd...it's the kind of song i would normally love, but the fact that it's JT and timberlake has kinda proven that the whole mumbly naughty electroclash thing really *IS* officially dead and buried in the karaoke graveyards of ten-minutes-ago moribundity.

plus, i think it woulda been sexier if britney had been given this song. it would have been way trashier and more camp.

Najee said:

Thank you for speaking for all white people. We thank you in advance.

RipHer2Shreds said:

No problem. After all, white people have been doing it to and for black people in the United States for centuries.

Anx said:

I agree. I heard it on the radio yesterday, and I was struck by how unoriginal and overproduced it was. Let's see, the music is comprised of a synth sound moving up and down in half steps. That's been done a million times. The vocals are distorted beyond recognition, and not in tune. If any other person besides JT put out this track, I don't think people would care about it at all.

UCantHavaDaMango said:

I agree, the novelty seems to the be the artist doing a style usually associated with another genre of popular music. As someone else said, if this was Genuwine or Tyrese making this song it hardly would be considereed innovative. In some cases, if Usher did the song it may be considered tired.
[Edited 2/1/07 10:58am]

Najee said:

I already think it's tired!

UCantHavaDaMango said:

It's more than "tired" -- it's damn-near "comatose." Really, is what Justin Timberlake doing really any more innovative than when Bobby Brown did it 20 years ago?

Najee said:

While I agree with your assessment, your approach is reckless and doesn't make your blind judgment just.

Najee said:

For the longest time, I thought the "unofficial default black woman" was Mariah Carey ; then I thought it was Alicia Keys. Is there an "unofficial default black women" website that I can look up to see if Halle is number one? Since I'm not a guy nor am I a part of "white society", I really wouldn't be able to state any of this as fact. I've heard several white people (male and female) rave about Beyonce, so maybe she's the 2007 unofficial default black woman. I wonder who presides over this committee to tally up all those votes. I guess the "unofficial default black man" would be Tiger Woods. C'mon now, this would be like me making the assumption that ALL white people love Oprah and you know what they say about people who make assumptions....



If Carrie Underwood said she loved her some "nubian brothers" , good for her. I don't know if she would be able to sell another country album, because I don't think her fans would be down with that, but I won't be mad at the girl. I don't know why he felt the need to say what he did, because I'm not him nor do I live in his head. Honestly, if people went out and bought his album because he made this statement, then I have to question those people's principles. Now, I don't completely disagree with you on the confusion as to why he decided to bring it up out of the blue, but I don't agree with you that he said it to just sell records either. I would think that this statement would lose him record sells, because I'm sure that there aren't too many "nubian brothers" who would be okay with Justin going after the sistahs. If he was answering a question, and this is how he felt, what was he supposed to do...lie and say he didn't like sistahs...then he would have been even more crucified and people would definitely have more shit to say...seems like a lose-lose situation to me. Just because Cameron Diaz has blonde hair and blue eyes doesn't make me forget that she's Native American, German, and Cuban....so, I guess that would make her the "unofficial default white woman".



Seeing as how they all have the same complexion as I do, and I have white, black, and Native American in my family history, that would include them in that statement that I said about how the majority of African-American female celebrities aren't 100% (please make note of the 100% here) black. I had a teacher in college who was born in Ghana and her skin was no where near the color of these women. While I say that, that doesn't mean that all people from Africa are black. I recently worked with a blonde haired, blue-eyed lady from South Africa, but she even admitted that her ancestors came from Britain, but based off of where she was born and raised, she is technically African. Just because someone has a natural tan doesn't make them black. I've met Hispanic people who are darker than me. I went to Spain with 3 other black students and we were all criticized by black Africans, who kept saying that "we weren't really black; we were African-American". Vanessa Williams has green eyes, so I know that there is more than just black people in her family lineage. I've seen several of these women on hottest celebrity female lists and I'm pretty sure that it's not just black men who vote for them. Until you present me with evidence that these women have no other race but African in their family histories, I stand by what I say.



How do you know that this euphemism wasn't made up by a white person? The statement I made was how much I don't like the term and how I defined it, not how "white people define the black culture phenomenon" (again, I am not white). This term goes right up at the top of my list of pointless euphemisms, next to "ebonics", "bling", "wifey", and the N word.



You make it sound as if he's the only artist in history to do this. Barry Gordy did it with half the artists on his Motown label. Kid Rock, Eminem, The Beastie Boys, Limp Bizquit, Korn, Scott Storch, Teena Marie, Christina Aguilera (wait, she's white by default, because her dad was Argentinian; exclude or include...hmmm), Elvis, Madonna,...the list goes on and on. Do I condone it on any level...no, because I think it's stupid to follow the crowd. But, I'm not going to say that Justin wasn't influenced by black artists...he's said on many interviews (before going solo) that he looked up to Donny Hathaway and Brian McKnight growing up. He's not the first artist in history to do this and he definitely won't be the last.




That's not what all the people that worked with Whitney in the beginning of her career said on her "True Hollywood Story". They said that Clive Davis wanted to market her more toward the pop charts and wasn't too happy with the album cover, because he felt that it made Whitney seem "too ethnic" for pop fans. That program also stated that she was booed when she won an award at the Soul Train awards that year. Now, I never said that the album didn't hit number 1, I said that her label chose not to market it to black audiences.



Then, he should have done a country album, because as hard as it is for me to believe at times, country music is pretty popular; and he's said that he grew up listening to Johnny Cash. Some of the highest grossing tours and albums in music history have been country artists. But, Justin wanted to do an R&B/hip-hop oriented album. Either way, I don't think he'll ever be accepted regardless of what genre of music he chooses to do. Many people still can't see him as anything but a boy bander. It's kind of like the kiss of death, because most artists who come out of bands have a difficult time being accepted as credible solo performers.





Hey, if you think he's being fake, that's your opinion and I'm not going to say you're wrong about it, but to say it's a double standard is a little far-fetched. Seal and Heidi Klum are the most prime example of this. I have not heard or read one negative thing about their relationship. Nobody has negative things to say about Robert DeNiro being married to a black woman and having a bi-racial child. If people are going to dislike them for stating that they have a preference, than that's their problems. You simple choose to state your opinions as if they were facts, which they aren't. Sure, their would be people who would have a problem with it, but those people probably hate all inter-racial couples, whether they're celebrities or not.



Aren't most artists primary focus to sell albums...how else are they going to pay off those record label advances if they don't sell albums? I'm not going to be naive and point the finger and say he's the only one in the record industry who wants to sell albums. I haven't heard any stories about him suing his fans for illegally downloading his music, like some celebrities have done. Why don't you call out at those greedy bastards while your at it. Again, stating your opinions as fact doesn't make them such. You feel that he doesn't really appreciate the genre, which makes that your opinion, because all the people he's worked with have said otherwise. So, either they're all lying to make him look good, (which makes them look phony in the long run) or you need to start using words like, "My opinion is....", before you finish your statements.




Please send your thoughts to these two sources, because they state otherwise:

http://www.basicmusic.net...p?aid=1818
http://www.lyricsystem.co...imberlake/

Now, just because it's stated at these two places doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't make it false either. In saying this, I don't think this makes him more credible to a black audience, but I personally do believe that he does have appreciation for the sistahs.
[Edited 2/1/07 17:47pm]