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Thread started 01/11/07 8:25pm

PurpleJam

Different Opinion On Hendrix.

Keeping on the subject of guitar playing and players, IN MY OPINION(please notice the caps on those words because ultimately thats all that it is) I have always thought Hendrix to be an overrated guitar player and soloist. Now before anyone chews my head off and spits it out, which is probably 99.9% of the people on this board and anywhere else discussing the subject of guitar players, let me state that this is strickley about his guitar playing skills. Not his impact and innovation on rock music and beyond(jazz) and his songwriting which was always very solid and uniquely creative. That is absolutely not in question here.
What I am saying is that as a guitar player I have alway found him to be a sloppy soloist and much too often just making very loud noises with his instrument without any type of melody in them at all. I have certainly never felt him to be 'the greatest guitar player who ever lived' and I have heard much more exceptional guitar playing than on his 'Are You Experienced' debut album, which I suppose sounded innovative in '67 but I just do not get all of the immense praise that this album has alway gotten. Of coure there are always exceptions to every rule and I have always thought that songs such as 'Little Wing' the jazzy 'Rainy Day,Dream Away' the instrumental 'Pali Gap' and the outtake 'Cherokee Mist' featured some really beautiful playing in them.

So please, I want to hear all of your comments about my thoughts on Hendrix and if you agree or disagree with my opinion about him. Also, feel free to tell me that you think that my opinion is utterly insane and absurd. I really want to know from you all.

And just to add to show that I am not a total fool, 'Purple Haze' easily has one of the most badass guitar riffs ever in rock music.
[Edited 1/11/07 21:09pm]
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Reply #1 posted 01/11/07 9:25pm

JesseDezz

PurpleJam said:

Keeping on the subject of guitar playing and players, IN MY OPINION(please notice the caps on those words because ultimately thats all that it is) I have always thought Hendrix to be an overrated guitar player and soloist. Now before anyone chews my head off and spits it out, which is probably 99.9% of the people on this board...
[Edited 1/11/07 21:09pm]


U shouldn't presume, because I like to think that this is a place - 99.9% of the time - where we can all have differing opinions in the name of intelligent discussion.
[Edited 1/11/07 21:25pm]
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Reply #2 posted 01/11/07 9:32pm

PurpleJam

JesseDezz said:

PurpleJam said:

Keeping on the subject of guitar playing and players, IN MY OPINION(please notice the caps on those words because ultimately thats all that it is) I have always thought Hendrix to be an overrated guitar player and soloist. Now before anyone chews my head off and spits it out, which is probably 99.9% of the people on this board...
[Edited 1/11/07 21:09pm]


U shouldn't presume, because I like to think that this is a place - 99.9% of the time - where we can all have differing opinions in the name of intelligent discussion.
[Edited 1/11/07 21:25pm]


I completley agree with you. Of coure its just because, as I am sure that you would agree, that Jimi is held in such incredibley high regard by the vast majority of people who feel him to be the very best ever, that I feel its bound to happen that many would have some really strong opinions of a person who feels him to be 'overrated'. Thats all.
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Reply #3 posted 01/11/07 9:42pm

JesseDezz

I love all of his official recordings and a few "unofficial" (Cry of Love), but some of his live performances were more consistent than others. For his time, Hendrix held a clear advantage over many of his contemporaries, in no small part because of his superior rhythm chops/r&b stylings. It's sometimes referred to as the "Curtis Mayfield school" of guitar playing.

When I think of Hendrix, I think of the whole package - guitar playing, songwriting, sonic/studio innovations, live performance/image and overall coolness.
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Reply #4 posted 01/11/07 9:58pm

coolcat

I think Hendrix either popularized or invented these techniques:

1. Using feedback
2. Pick scratches/slides
3. Whammy bar dives
4. Using the wah-pedal

His clean playing style seems completely unique to me (Castles made of Sand, Little Wing)...

His playing was blues based but it went beyond that... it had an eastern quality to it... it broke out of traditional rock and roll... guess this was part of the psychedelic rock movement of the time... I think his playing really influenced prog-rock (at least the guitar part of it)...
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Reply #5 posted 01/11/07 10:38pm

PurpleJam

I read on one reviewer's own personal site, that he said that Jimi was better and more known with playing his guitar riffs rather than playing solos. Riffs are where he really excelled was his opinion. Does anyone agree with this?
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Reply #6 posted 01/11/07 10:44pm

coolcat

PurpleJam said:

I read on one reviewer's own personal site, that he said that Jimi was better and more known with playing his guitar riffs rather than playing solos. Riffs are where he really excelled was his opinion. Does anyone agree with this?


I agree. nod
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Reply #7 posted 01/11/07 10:45pm

chuckaducci

PurpleJam said:

Keeping on the subject of guitar playing and players, IN MY OPINION(please notice the caps on those words because ultimately thats all that it is) I have always thought Hendrix to be an overrated guitar player and soloist. Now before anyone chews my head off and spits it out, which is probably 99.9% of the people on this board and anywhere else discussing the subject of guitar players, let me state that this is strickley about his guitar playing skills. Not his impact and innovation on rock music and beyond(jazz) and his songwriting which was always very solid and uniquely creative. That is absolutely not in question here.
What I am saying is that as a guitar player I have alway found him to be a sloppy soloist and much too often just making very loud noises with his instrument without any type of melody in them at all. I have certainly never felt him to be 'the greatest guitar player who ever lived' and I have heard much more exceptional guitar playing than on his 'Are You Experienced' debut album, which I suppose sounded innovative in '67 but I just do not get all of the immense praise that this album has alway gotten. Of coure there are always exceptions to every rule and I have always thought that songs such as 'Little Wing' the jazzy 'Rainy Day,Dream Away' the instrumental 'Pali Gap' and the outtake 'Cherokee Mist' featured some really beautiful playing in them.

So please, I want to hear all of your comments about my thoughts on Hendrix and if you agree or disagree with my opinion about him. Also, feel free to tell me that you think that my opinion is utterly insane and absurd. I really want to know from you all.

And just to add to show that I am not a total fool, 'Purple Haze' easily has one of the most badass guitar riffs ever in rock music.
[Edited 1/11/07 21:09pm]



::knocks him upside the head with Machine Gun::
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Reply #8 posted 01/11/07 11:53pm

JesseDezz

PurpleJam said:

I read on one reviewer's own personal site, that he said that Jimi was better and more known with playing his guitar riffs rather than playing solos. Riffs are where he really excelled was his opinion. Does anyone agree with this?


Dude doesn't know what he's talkin' about. The drawback about the internet and personal sites/bloggers is that any uninformed putz can post an opinion and pass it off as fact to the fellow uninformed.

Don't take others' opinions as gospel. Rely on your ears - listen to the records and make up your own mind.
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Reply #9 posted 01/12/07 3:13am

novabrkr

His solos were for the most part basically the same motifs played again and again and he rarely used his fingers according to proper fingering standards. Anyone who has studied the tabs of Jimi Hendrix know how similar his solos are, and I think it all culminates in the guitar work of "Voodoo Child (Slight Return)". That's the raw bluprint for all his playing, especially live.

You can feel it in your hands when you play that stuff, it's a mannerism. But it's also a very strong physical feeling at the same time, you know you are doing something "right" intuitively. Of course his career was so short, he could have altered his style in the coming years.
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Reply #10 posted 01/12/07 4:33am

thebanishedone

avatar

hendrix was not the first to use wah wah.
eric clapton was the first guitar player
who used wah wah on record(tales of brave ulysses) after jimi heard that song he started using wah wah.

people think that jimi was the first to use wah because hendrix record came a little before cream's record.but eric clapton is the first to record with wah wah.
jimi was the best guitar player ever.
he could be sloppy (check isle of white dvd) but it was because he had no fear to push the bounderies of instrument.

but if you want to hear mindblowing guitar playing by jimi go and listen to
band og gypsies live at fillmore.its even amazing by today standards.
at the latter stage of his life he could play lead and rhythm guitar at the same time.


nobody can top that.
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Reply #11 posted 01/12/07 5:06am

PurpleJam

thebanishedone said:

hendrix was not the first to use wah wah.
eric clapton was the first guitar player
who used wah wah on record(tales of brave ulysses) after jimi heard that song he started using wah wah.

people think that jimi was the first to use wah because hendrix record came a little before cream's record.but eric clapton is the first to record with wah wah.
jimi was the best guitar player ever.
he could be sloppy (check isle of white dvd) but it was because he had no fear to push the bounderies of instrument.

but if you want to hear mindblowing guitar playing by jimi go and listen to
band og gypsies live at fillmore.its even amazing by today standards.
at the latter stage of his life he could play lead and rhythm guitar at the same time.


nobody can top that.



The fillmore does have some outstanding playing by Jimi indeed. Like I said there are always exceptions to every rule. 'Burning Desire' is one of my favorite guitar pieces by Hendrix. Do understand please that I did not say that Jimi was not an outstanding and inventive player, I simply stated that I don't believe him to be the greatest player of all time and I do feel him to be overrated. However I am starting to agree with a statement that I had read by someone on the internet who said, 'the word overrated is overrated'.
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Reply #12 posted 01/12/07 6:18am

toejam

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I always thought the "sloppyness" you mention added to his sound. Take "Machine Gun" for instance (from Band Of Gypsys). If that solo was played technically "perfect", it just wouldn't be the same. A song like that needs to be sloppy...

It's similar to Miles Davis. He was an amazing trumpeter, but he probably split more notes than any other trumpeter I've heard! That's what created the excitement - you never knew what to expect!

I never try to worry too much about who is the "greatest". If the music moves me in a particular way, then yes, in that moment he may just be the greatest. But tomorrow I'll be listening to something...
[Edited 1/12/07 6:24am]
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #13 posted 01/12/07 6:37am

prettymansson

the machine gun solo from the BOG show is the most feeling and in "the zone"guitar playing i have ever heard in my life !!!
also the greatest tone i have ever heard..something like a fire alarm meets a beautiful distorted violin !!!!! Nobody at his time could go "out" like that ! and control the hell out of it ! wink
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Reply #14 posted 01/12/07 9:04am

paligap

avatar

...




Hendrix isn't every guitarist's cup of tea...(and doesn't have to be)...and people can certanly acknowledge his importance or influence without actually loving his sound or style...

With Hendrix, it was more about sound and feel, rather than technique ... There are probably legions of guitarists who have better technique than Hendrix, or a prettier sound, more structred soloing style -- and if you're looking for lots of blinding speed, impeccable picking or flawless fingering from Jimi, youre not gonna find it...IMO, it's his combination of that earthy blues/R&B/Jazz feel with his sonic spacey, pyschedelic experimentation--it's really about his boundless imaginative approach to the instrument.

I know you mentioned that you didn't want to talk about his status as an innovator, but that's really what all the fuss was about-- his uncanny ability to absorb and blend the styles that came before him and blend that with a fearless aproach to sound experimentation, that put him far beyond the other players of the time....(I like the way Narada Michael Walden once summed it up--"Hendrix could play feedback musically!")

There are some harmonic concepts that he never got a chance to deal with--had he lived, I'm sure he would have taken it even further, judging by the directions he was going in at the time of his death, especially hanging with the likes of Miles Davis, Gil Evans, John Mclaughlin, and Larry Young...






...
[Edited 1/12/07 10:55am]
" I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout
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Reply #15 posted 01/12/07 9:12am

gypsyfire

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I LOVE JIMI HENDRIX,really I do BUT...I have more of an emotional connection to the guitar playing of Prince,Eddie Hazel & Michael Hampton.
[Edited 1/12/07 9:14am]
I DON'T WANT TO BE NORMAL,because normal is part of the status quo,which I don't want to be a part of- Tori Amos
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Reply #16 posted 01/12/07 9:13am

Bali

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Hard to disagree with you PJ, only because you stated it was "your opinion". Like it or not, I can respect it. But back to the "gifted one", overrated/underrated is really not a concern of mine, I know that when it comes to sound what I like to hear. Dude simply broke "sound" barriers with his innovation of sound. The one thing I find interesting, but it will never come to fruition, is the fact had he lived long enough, would he have contributed to some of those killer Funkadelic albums, Something in me says he would have fit perfectly with that unit.....one can only Dream!

For those interested, check your local SHOWTIME listings, they've been featuring the BOG piece. It's a good view in the sense that everyone has their own opinion of what the BOG/Hendrix we're about....at least in their opinion.

{cueing up "EzyRider"}

cool
[Edited 1/12/07 9:27am]
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Reply #17 posted 01/12/07 9:51am

NDRU

avatar

Of course he's an amazing soloist, and I don't think he's over-rated, but I will say that people have focused too much on that.

I think his greatest ability as a guitar player was in playing both rhythm and lead at the same time, holding down almost all of the music by himself.

Little Wing is the prime example. He created (or at least popularized) a style of playing with that song alone that people are still copying today, and it has nothing to do with blues, feedback, fire, or playing behind your head.

Of course the other thing that seperates him as a guitar player is his songwriting ability, that he channeled thru the guitar. He wrote some of the most lasting riffs, chord sequences, solos, etc.

Then you add his revolutionary (though not quite as amazing 40 years later) soloing style, and you can see why he's the greatest.
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Reply #18 posted 01/12/07 1:00pm

PurpleJam

paligap said:

...




Hendrix isn't every guitarist's cup of tea...(and doesn't have to be)...and people can certanly acknowledge his importance or influence without actually loving his sound or style...

With Hendrix, it was more about sound and feel, rather than technique ... There are probably legions of guitarists who have better technique than Hendrix, or a prettier sound, more structred soloing style -- and if you're looking for lots of blinding speed, impeccable picking or flawless fingering from Jimi, youre not gonna find it...IMO, it's his combination of that earthy blues/R&B/Jazz feel with his sonic spacey, pyschedelic experimentation--it's really about his boundless imaginative approach to the instrument.

I know you mentioned that you didn't want to talk about his status as an innovator, but that's really what all the fuss was about-- his uncanny ability to absorb and blend the styles that came before him and blend that with a fearless aproach to sound experimentation, that put him far beyond the other players of the time....(I like the way Narada Michael Walden once summed it up--"Hendrix could play feedback musically!")

There are some harmonic concepts that he never got a chance to deal with--had he lived, I'm sure he would have taken it even further, judging by the directions he was going in at the time of his death, especially hanging with the likes of Miles Davis, Gil Evans, John Mclaughlin, and Larry Young...






...
[Edited 1/12/07 10:55am]


Very well put. Let me say that I have nothing against a guitar player who occasionally plays sloppy. Nobody can play perfect notes on every single occasion and indeed sometimes the sloppiness can actually add a bit to the playing style of the guitarist. I just thought that he was sloppy way too often for my personal taste. I would just also like to state that I am not a fan of those so called shred guitarists whose only objective seems to play as fast as possible with a barrage of meaningless notes. I do feel however that a guitarist can be melodic and very fluid in their playing and still have emotion and feel to their sound. I just do not believe that playing sloppy is the only way to have real feeling with your playing.
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Reply #19 posted 01/12/07 1:56pm

stopHATING

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SHOCK post of the month.
"You can go Fly ya Mama's Kite" (c) Prince
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Reply #20 posted 01/12/07 3:30pm

SPYZFAN1

PurpleJam you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. Some players rag on Jimi's "slop" but then they sometime forget that there were no rack effects Floyd Rose locking systems, or lace sensor pickups back then. Jimi was driven by pure emotion and used gear that would have been total noise in anyone else's hands.

George Clinton said it the best that Jimi took electric noise and made it sound like church. Sure Pete Townshend used Strats and Marshall stacks in 1967, but Jimi took that gear to another whole level. Jimi also wasn't trained in the classical sense, but he had imagination and creativity that made him stand out.

Jimi's vibe to me is a deep spritual thing that goes beyond his guitar playing. That's why I have him tatooed in my skin. He was miles ahead.
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Reply #21 posted 01/12/07 3:44pm

prettymansson

SPYZFAN1 said:



Jimi's vibe to me is a deep spritual thing that goes beyond his guitar playing. That's why I have him tatooed in my skin. He was miles ahead.


That sums up this conversation !!!!! I have him tattoo'ed on mine as well !..jimi was like a guitar monk or something..a way of life..Its so beyond notes or even songs..it was what he brought to the table that nobody else was deep enough to even know was out there... wink
[Edited 1/12/07 15:44pm]
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Reply #22 posted 01/12/07 3:56pm

panther514

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SPYZFAN1 said:

PurpleJam you are entitled to your opinion and I respect it. Some players rag on Jimi's "slop" but then they sometime forget that there were no rack effects Floyd Rose locking systems, or lace sensor pickups back then. Jimi was driven by pure emotion and used gear that would have been total noise in anyone else's hands.

George Clinton said it the best that Jimi took electric noise and made it sound like church. Sure Pete Townshend used Strats and Marshall stacks in 1967, but Jimi took that gear to another whole level. Jimi also wasn't trained in the classical sense, but he had imagination and creativity that made him stand out.

Jimi's vibe to me is a deep spritual thing that goes beyond his guitar playing. That's why I have him tatooed in my skin. He was miles ahead.



Co-sign...also...people get caught up in chops...who cares how "neat" everything sounds? What Hendrix had (and has ) above anyone else was FEEL...there are a zillion guys out there with chops out the AZZ but have no feel...they can rip a million notes that will be forgettable before the song is over...Hendrix played emotional in-your-face stuff.... that came from listening to the great blues guitarists who played stuff (who a lot of critics described sloppy players also) that touched your soul.
"I wasn't invited to shake hands with Hitler, but I wasn't invited to the White House to shake hands with the President, either" ~ Jesse Owens
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Reply #23 posted 01/12/07 7:00pm

BlaqueKnight

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Dude, who gives a sh*t about what you think of Hendrix? He is LEGEND.
Its your opinion. You can keep it. I promise not to try and take it from ya, k?
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Reply #24 posted 01/12/07 7:09pm

coolcat

BlaqueKnight said:

Dude, who gives a sh*t about what you think of Hendrix? He is LEGEND.
Its your opinion. You can keep it. I promise not to try and take it from ya, k?


neutral So he shouldn't express his opinion?
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Reply #25 posted 01/12/07 7:17pm

BlaqueKnight

avatar

coolcat said:

BlaqueKnight said:

Dude, who gives a sh*t about what you think of Hendrix? He is LEGEND.
Its your opinion. You can keep it. I promise not to try and take it from ya, k?


neutral So he shouldn't express his opinion?



Express all he wants just don't expect everyone to want to discuss his opinions with him. I'm proudly being the asshole on this one. I'm not giving two shits about what someone else thinks of Hendrix.
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Reply #26 posted 01/12/07 7:31pm

prettymansson

BlaqueKnight said:

coolcat said:



neutral So he shouldn't express his opinion?



Express all he wants just don't expect everyone to want to discuss his opinions with him. I'm proudly being the asshole on this one. I'm not giving two shits about what someone else thinks of Hendrix.


lol lol lol anyone else, Id say yes you are being an asshole..but JIMI IS FREAKIN JIMI !!!!! so you win ! wink
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Reply #27 posted 01/12/07 7:49pm

magnificentsyn
thesizer

Ahem.




Fuck yo' thoughts. biggrin

sorry. confused
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Reply #28 posted 01/12/07 8:18pm

ThreadBare

And Tiger Woods just has a good hype machine... lol
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Reply #29 posted 01/12/07 9:01pm

jacktheimprovi
dent

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