Moonbeam said:

Now that's a good choice!

MikeMatronik said:

Madonna is from Michigan too, ya know. My bro and I are in the Drowned World Detroit DVD!

Moonbeam said:

I know...I've seen u 2 jumping on the beautiful stranger part endless times!

MikeMatronik said:

She was looking right at me when she sings "I have a taste for danger".

Moonbeam said:

Bell Biv Devoe

badujunkie said:

And specifically it was the remix that was well-known.

I couldn't even tell ya how Heavy D's rap on "Alright" goes.

And besides that, I think "I Feel For You" by Chaka Khan & Melle Mel was first.

MikeMatronik said:

Anyway, back on topic, does Debbie Harry count by putting Fab Five Freddy in the "Rapture" vid?

it's probably because she's the one who got the kids attention by the collabo, and then younger artists picked it up from there so it seemed like she redirected the music scene.

if she didn't initiate then she def. helped

VoicesCarry said:

Sorry, but when Mariah hooked up w/ ODB he wasn't successful on a massive scale. Wutang was huge but the face of Wu was Method Man.

badujunkie said:

That's fine because I don't think Maz is the least bit interested in being a POP star. And, I'd love to know where all that "innovation" was on the last Madonna and Janet albums.

roundables said:

End of story. She has never plucked someone from obscurity, which is what the post was suggesting.

roundables said:

He's referring to their entire careers. I'm a Mariah fan, but there has NEVER been much innovation on her records...whatsoever.

VoicesCarry said:

Who said she plucked anyone from obscurity. I think what the other poster was saying is they weren't known to the average mainstream listener. Do you really think the same amount of people knew ODB before Fantasy as they did when the song came out? If you stopped the average person on the street now and asked them to name an ODB song what do you think they'd name? You know god and well the average person isn't going to say Shimmy Shimmy Ya.

roundables said:

The millions who bought Wu Tang records and heard their tracks on the radio knew damn well who he was That was as mainstream as you can get. She may have helped 8-year-olds who bought Mariah records figure out who he was, but no, she didn't "introduce" him to a major mainstream audience. I think ODB is the only one you can possibly make a case for (even though I disagree with it)...every other rapper she's worked with since has a long, popular mainstream career behind them. Except Da Brat. And no one has EVER cared about Da Brat
[Edited 12/22/06 19:22pm]

VoicesCarry said:

I don't know she went from being the girl next door to being the single slut next door that everybody hates, but she's still selling records. She goes against everything that most record execs have ever tried to build a successful female artist on. She's not fashionable, girls hate her, she's not cool, but the bish will sell some records. Her image isn't innovative but the way she's marketed herself is. She's built a fanbase that only rivals MJ's in the craziness factor. They focus on sales more than any other fanbase you can think of.

roundables said:

Mariah sells well because she is familiar and safe and doesn't take big risks. And this appeals to a certain type of stan.
[Edited 12/22/06 19:31pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Millions of people bought D12 albums. And, they will readily admit that the average fan can't name all of them. I got Wu Tang albums but I can't name everyone that's in the group. I think the 8 year old comment was a cheap shot. WE both know Mariah's fanbase is scattered like hell. What long mainstream career did Lil Vicious, Mobb Deep, Shawna, and Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz have?

roundables said:

The 8-year-old comment was NOT a cheap shot. If you went to a Mariah concert around 1995, you would know that a MASSIVE portion of her fanbase was, at the time, young tween and teenage girls.
[Edited 12/22/06 19:35pm]

MikeMatronik said:

VoicesCarry said:

She doesn't take risks? Tell that to her adult contemporary fans that loved Music Box, and picked up a copy of Butterfly. You think the soccer moms were happy to hear those collabs with Bone Thugs in Harmony?

roundables said:

Please. That album had enough treacly ballads to satisfy any soccer mom.

VoicesCarry said:

Massive portion of her fanbase was teenage girls and their MOMS. She had a sizable adult audience. Hell, you can still spot them at her concerts now they stay for Hero and exit stage left when the chairs are put on stage for Fantasy.

VoicesCarry said:

Right. Cause, I can still remember a lot of those fans leaving nasty messages on her messageboard. They were disgusted with her new love of rap and tight clothing. There was a massive exodus of her fanbase when Butterfly hit every fan knows that. A sizable chunk of her adult AC fans ran straight for Celine Dion.

roundables said:

The core content of every Mariah album is essentially the same. A lot of her fans want to hear her do the same thing over and over and over again. Mimi was so successful because it took her away from inane rapper collabos, trash videos, gave her a classy image back and allowed her to do what she did best, that being midtempo R&B and BALLADS. Mariah was smart to keep the clothes on and the rappers in the background with that album. We Belong Together took off because it was "old Mariah", and radio was happy with this. She didn't lose her way with Butterfly, truth be told. It's her best record. But you're right - at that time, the A/C queen was Celine Dion, and Mariah lost a lot of her album sales as a result - but I think that it has more to do with a) Sony's crappy promotion of the record due to her breakup with Tommy and b) People were moving on to other artists, which happens at some point in EVERY artist's career.
[Edited 12/22/06 19:53pm]

People on this board always go on about innovation and trendsetting (although most artist they would put in this catergory are far from) this is a modern day detractor for artist who have nothing else to show than supposed innovation and trendsetting, it's to over compensate for the fact they have no real talent for singing (end of the day when u buy cd from someone claiming to be a singer, thats all that matters, not what she wore or how she dances or how hot the beat is). I think Mariah is more concerned in honing her 'style' and her 'sound' that she has created over the years (similar to people like Sade ect..) than to hit people with a sexy/back

twink69 said:

It's NOT said to detract from Mariah's body of work (at least in my case), it's just reality. Vocal ability has absolutely nothing to do with musical enjoyment. The vocals can be there, but if the music is boring, no one will care. Yes, beats and production matter.
[Edited 12/22/06 20:33pm]

VoicesCarry said:

VoicesCarry said:

beats and production do matter, but most artist out there soley rely on production and beats (and it's not even their talent that created it) and they offer nothing vocally@
Vocal abilty has everything to do with musical enjoyment when your instrument of choice is vocals!

Moonbeam said:

Annie LIKE hip-hop collabo originators! Annie LIKE sistas doin' it for themselves!