I've noticed that people seem to give credit to Mariah's "Fantasy" for being the first hip-hop collaboration by a mainstream female pop artist - and they claimed she started this trend. This is patently untrue. So....WTF is up with that?

so who started it?

Well Madonna had 2Pac doing the rap part "I'd Rather be your lover" (His version remains unreleased!)

Or the Waiting (Remix) with Everlast

Or Did you do it?
[Edited 12/22/06 7:20am]

MikeMatronik said:

Chakha Khan, Jody Watley, Janet Jackson were doing it before that.

Oh

Janet had Chuck D on janet.

Prince had sheila e. doing the misssissisisipioii trans whaterrberrt rap

VoicesCarry said:

where are they now?

MikeMatronik said:

No, Janet had Heavy D. on the single version of Alright, MC Lyte on You Want This remix and so on.

Good question VC. Maybe it's because MC does it so often thus introducing less popular rappers to the mainstream or into Pop music not just R&B? I really have no idea. I must say I don't know anyone who's collaboed with as many rappers as she has whether on their albums or her own. The list is long.

JackieBlue said:

Mariah really hasn't collaborated with obscure rappers. And today R&B IS pop, at least in the US.

I think she helped popularize the trend, but she certainly didn't start it.

No, she definitely didn't start it but I was thinking of Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz, Jadakiss, Camron, maybe Ol' Dirty Bastard. I don't think your average pop music listener knew who those guys were or knew their music beforehand. ODB is a household name in some homes but when I worked with kids they didn't have a clue who he was until they heard Fantasy and suddenly ODB was the ish. But yeah, she didn't start it but she gets the credit.

VoicesCarry said:

*picks janet. booklet*

Track 15: "New Agenda"

rap written by Chuck D.
rap by Chuck D.

Guess you not that great jan stan after all hun
[Edited 12/22/06 7:39am]

JackieBlue said:

I don't think she has popularized these people....they were all successful, sometimes on a massive scale, before she got to them. Take Cam'ron - she sampled a huge hit that was only a few years old. Now I know Boy (I Need You) was a total flop so it's not like the average pop listener's awareness of Cam'ron was increased by anything but his original track. Jadakiss, too, was on a Mariah track that nobody heard (Miss You), and he was already popular.
[Edited 12/22/06 7:41am]

MikeMatronik said:

I didn't say she didn't work with him, but I was talking about her single releases, of which New Agenda was not one.

VoicesCarry said:

VoicesCarry said:

They were successful and popular before but outside of hip hop folks only learned of them through the collabo.

JackieBlue said:

Considering that they both had huge pop hits, I wouldn't agree with that assessment. Today hip-hop is completely mainstream. Akon has two tracks in the Top Ten at pop radio right now.
[Edited 12/22/06 7:50am]

VoicesCarry said:

And Sinead had MC Lyte on the remix of I Want Your Hands on Me.

Mariah fashioned a whole career on it. Others used it to enhance singles.

Don't forget Kylie and Jazzi P!

JackieBlue said:

Mariah certainly wasn't the first mainstream pop artist to collaborate with hip-hop artists, but she was the artist who created the tipping point for that style of music to flourish. Other artists had already been doing hip-hop collaborations for at least ten years prior to Mariah (Chaka Khan/Melle Mel, Jody Watley/Rakim. Janet Jackson/Heavy D, Anthrax/Public Enemy, R.E.M./KRS-One) but the earlier collaborations were in the infancy of hip-hop, and the later collaborations either used artists who were considered huge in R&B or used metal and/or alternative artists, so that was perceived to be edgy by default. Mariah, at that time, was considered to be one of the most wholesome of pop artists, much along the line of Whitney Houston or Celine Dion, so when she suddenly did a hip-hop track with ODB, it made mainstream America go "Whoa!" But once they heard the song and liked it, it made it much easier for mainstream artists to collaborate with hip-hop artists to gain street cred.

728huey said:

I agree. Really it was just good timing - she did it just as hip-hop was beginning to take over. It was the beginning of the end

Mariah's the shit.


THE VOICE

Moonbeam said:

These guys are americans...let's keep this secret ours.

A couple reasons Mariah is credited with starting Hip-Pop:

1. "Fantasy" was a huge number 1 smash for weeks (it even debuted at number 1, supplanting "Runaway" as the highest debut single by a female artist)

2. Mariah straight up used O.D.B. Something about his level of street cred and being not only in Wu Tang Clan but the biggest BADASS in Wu Tang Clan and the contrast of being featured next to a (then) wholesome pop princess in her LEAD single from the album was new.

3. Yes, Chuck D was on "New Agenda," Heavy D was in "Alright," and MC Lyte in "You Want This" but none of those are truly signature Janet hits except maybe "Alright." Janet's biggest hits from that era (Thats the Way Love Goes, Again, Love Will Never Do Without You) were all solo

Are Janet and Madonna eons more innovative as pop stars than Mariah? YES.
Should urban music be grateful to Mariah for bringing them to the mainstream? FUCK NO.

Actualy it was Chaka Khan then Rene & Angela when they included Big Daddy Kane.

MikeMatronik said:

I was thinking of Janet having Heavy D. on "Alright".

Oops, just noticed that VC was on it.
[Edited 12/22/06 10:18am]

VoicesCarry said:

I agree with that and would've said the same thing. Not one of those artists were "underground" and were all popular when Mariah, or should I say her producers, put them on one of her tracks. I don't think that she put anyone on the map, and if anything, she was just trying to hop on their bandwagon for herself to gain more street cred.

MikeMatronik said:

I'm American too!

Moonbeam said:

MikeMatronik said:

I know, I know.

Moonbeam said:

I thought ur from the OZ and from the Us of A!

MikeMatronik said:

I'm originally from USA (Michigan), but I've immigrated to Oz.