Are they (U2) on the record giving JD as an influence/template? That's not a similarity that's ever occurred to me. I've always thought that early U2 bore a very close (if more user-friendly) resemblance to Television, and I know that the edge has confessed to carrying quite a few of Tom Verlaine's bows in his quiver, so to speak.

There's just something "empty" about a lot of Joy Division's stuff that I can't quite wrap my head around. Also, while Ian Curtis' singing grates on me a little, Bono's voice is one of my favorite aspects of U2. And, to be honest, while there are numerous early U2 songs I adore, "War" is where they really got great, for me. By that point, I think they had begun to move somewhat past the whole post-punk genre.

I want to love Joy Division, though. I think another part of the reason I can't get into them is the God-awful sound quality on Substance and Closer, which are the two JD albums I own. They are definitely products of the early-digital era.

Right now I'm listening to "Dead Souls", and, while I love the music, Curtis' voice does bug me. Dare I say it, I almost prefer Reznor's take on the song. Sacrilige, I know. I'll banish myself from the org for a while.

The drums all over their first album "Boy" are definitely JD influenced. Edge's early guitar sound isn't too far removed from "Unknown Pleasures".

VoicesCarry said:

A little harsh, don't you think? I wouldn't consider it their best album (that honor goes to Technique), and the album is definitely front-loaded, but there are enough winners on the album to keep me interested.

Although,I must say that "Real love can't be sold/It's another color than gold" is one of the worst lyrics of all time. Bernard Summer has never exactly been the best lyricist of all time anyway. It's certainly on the same level as the misguided cheerleader part of "Show Me" or something else awful from Janet's album.

Plus I "Hey Now What You Doin". It's late summer, lying out by the pool music. Actually, the whole album is really good for that activity.

I almost think the more subdued stuff from "Boy" has more of the Joy Division sound than the faster, more upbeat songs. I hear more Joy Division in "An Cat Dubh" and "Shadows and Tall Trees" than I do in "Out of Control" or "The Electric Co".

I think "War" fits in better with their first 2 albums than what came after it, but I just think it's such a jump in songwriting and production, that I have a hard time thinking of it alongside October or Boy.

I HATED that album

And I hadn't really thought of the Television connection. Maybe cuz I don't like them much. I'll have to go back and compare.

quote]
I'm sure it's the production. They were playing with space in the mix in a way that really hadn't been done before.

And I know what you mean about Ian's voice. I happen to love it. But he does sound strangled or decapitated half of the time.

They need to remaster their shit too. I'm surprised they didn't have CD re-releases to go along with the "Complete U2" iTunes thing.

I swear I'm not trying to one-up you or anything( ), but the Edge has name-checked television lots and lots through the years.

The Edge in '86: We played a lot, rehearsed a lot, and became totally immersed in the music that was happening around us. Suddenly we became aware of people like...Television....I was very influenced by Tom Verlaine.

http://snow.prohosting.co...n8600.html

I've always had a problem with the sound on Closer as well - if I listen to it on headphones, it almost leaves me feeling claustrophobic. I find their earlier tracks much easier to take.

"Cure"-style remasters.

Maybe expand The Joshua Tree to the the double-disc album that Bono originally wanted to release

MFing Black Celebration (release a remaster of SOFAD first, will ya? stupid )

damosuzuki said:

I think that's what they were going for.

I love "Closer" to bits, but I can't listen to it very often.

At this point, it gets about 1 spin per year and it takes me about that long to recover.

Maybe I should've invested in "Unknown Pleasures" first. Is it an easier listen than "Closer" or "Substance"?

What's that all about? (See, I have major gaps in my U2 knowledge. I know all their music, but not all the background info.)

GangstaFam said:

Maybe I should've invested in "Unknown Pleasures" first. Is it an easier listen than "Closer" or "Substance"?

I might have been a little misleading; I'm not sure that Bono ever explicitly said that he wanted JT to be a double album, but he did say that he felt that a lot of the songs were missing their counterparts.

Here, I'll just let Edge tell it

"For instance, we disagreed vehemently about what songs should go on the album. If Bono had his way, The Joshua Tree would have been more American and bluesy, and I was trying to pull it back." That compromise led to the later flood of new B-side tracks. Bono argued that "the album is almost incomplete. 'With or Without You' doesn't really make sense without 'Walk to the Water' or 'Luminous Times'. And 'Trip Through Your Wires' doesn't make that much sense without 'Sweetest Thing.'"

Even though a lot of the stuff that he wanted on teh album ended up as B-sides, there are still a few cuts that haven't been heard yet. There was a website online a while back that made up their own tracklist for a double-disc album. Can't find it now, but if I remember correctly, it hung together pretty damn well.

I personally find it a much easier listen - I don't find myself getting ear-fatigue when I listen to it, and I personally think it's a finer batch of songs. That's almost certainly a minority opinion among JD fans - most hold Closer as being their masterpiece.

I'm not really a fan myself - I'm a moderate NO fan who backed in JD and listened to them out of historical interest but never loved them.

I personally find it a much easier listen - I don't find myself getting ear-fatigue when I listen to it, and I think it's a finer batch of songs. That's almost certainly a minority opinion among JD fans - most hold Closer as being their masterpiece.

I'm not really a fan myself - I'm a moderate NO fan who backed in JD and listened to them out of historical interest but never loved them.

"I've been waiting for a guy to come and take me by the hand...."

That's actually about where I stand too, so maybe Unknown Pleasures would be more up my alley. Actually, wasn't everything remastered for "Heart and Soul", anyway? Maybe I should just trade in all of my JD and just pick that up. After all, it has everything they ever released on it, right?

NWF said:

You know it's "guide", right?

Ooh, I want to see! Those b-sides are the best!

Really? I thought he was just playing around and being ironic with his sexuality.

Eh, I lied again. I guess there wasn't anything new on the album. But I found the tracklisting. It came from http://www.tiede.com/joshuatree/


This is how they ordered the album:

1
Where the Streets Have No Name
Silver and Gold
Still Haven't Found
Spanish Eyes
With or Without You
Luminous Times
Walk to the Water
Bullet the Blue Sky
Running to Stand Still

2
Red Hill Mining Town
Race Against Time
In God's Country
Trip Through Your Wires
Sweetest Thing
One Tree Hill
Deep in the Heart
Exit
Mothers of the Disappeared

damosuzuki said:

I didn't know that. For some reason I thought you used to be hardcore, but just grew out of them.

Axchi696 said:

More or less. It's missing a few Peel sessions and most of their Warsaw stuff. But it makes up for it with demos and live takes.

I think the box set was remastered. But that seems like a lot of money to spend on a band you don't care for.

I've actually seen it for about $40, which isn't too bad. I guess they're just a band that I think that I should like, if that makes any sense. And maybe if I try harder, I'll "get" them.