JackieBlue said:

its only because that's ALL she talks about. people weren't tired of it with janet., velvet rope, or all for you. now its just...

ehuffnsd said:

its so easy for us to see. why are her people having such a hard time with it?

sallysassalot said:

JD wants to have some kind of street cred i guess, and probably hasn't attended a Janet concert with the common people to see what her fanbase is really like.

Madonna didn't tour based on the strengh of COADF's numbers, which weren't bad (but weren't great either). Janet is touring because she is Janet, just like Madonna is touring because she is Madonna. She'll probably do shocking well because people are really expecting something (don't be shocked if some people honestly come expecting to see some boob).

Ellie said:

Both after the release. We'll have to wait and see if she bothers to do that here. I'm doubting it....

ehuffnsd said:

Actually I think AL only sold 600K+. In comparison, DJ was a minor hit in the US with near 1 million sales (in less time) and with a lot less sinlges (same amount of videos made, though).

PrettyMan72 said:

Isn't Luda's album and R&B album? I don't get how that works.

JackieBlue said:

I don't see it happening but she'll get a good deal with another label who might fulfill their promises of making Janet a huge seller again.

sallysassalot said:

Actually, that's the realest post ever. I'm in the minority that actually enjoys her singing about sex over rap beats, but I can see where she turned away from the pop audience.

CinisterCee said:

and you gotta know i love me some jdj. i'm just wanting her to get her shit together so she can remain relevant.

sallysassalot said:

It's because you care.

An artist doesn't need a "hit album" to tour.If Janet were smart,she would put together a major world tour regardless of how well the album does.Since this is the 20th anniversary of 'Control',she could do a big retrospective-type tour,reminding people of why they became fans in the first place.Play a few new tracks,but mainly focus on the last 20 years of her career.

Another thing: real artists should stand behind their work,whether it becomes a hit or not.I remember in 1988,Prince did a big tour focused on the 'Lovesexy' album,even though that album was a commercial flop.A few yeara ago,Madonna did a tour based around 'American Life' even though that album didn't do very well commercially.Touring is part of their job requirement.

sallysassalot said:

I don't know anything about the music industry, but in a way this does make sense, but then again if they would allow a cd to "flop," how would Virgin, for example, recoup their 80 million dollar investment?

A lot of fans are saying that Virgin has not done its best to promote 20 Y.O., is this the reason why? I think Virgin actually did a better job with DJ, but maybe that was more damage control? I know people will argue that Janet was in a lot of magazines and print this time around, but I'm talking about major television performances. Of course it's early yet in the era, and Janet still might make more "rounds," but compared to DJ, I don't think she has performed as much even in smaller veues--she appeared at Gay Pride and performed at Wango Tango.

As far as the tour, I don't know. I think Janet herself became more discouraged last time around because she did so many performances here and in Europe with a lackluster sales result, I guess, for someone of her stature. I'm not sure if things continue as they are if Janet will tour. I think she should because her fans really want to see her...but I don't know if she herself would have a huge interest in it. From what I've read, Janet doesn't seem to enjoy touring very much. As I recall, she had to be talked into touring for All4You,sooo.

In addition regarding some of her choices as an artist, with her gays being the exception to this commentary, I think Janet--maybe with JD's encouragement--feels betrayed by her "pop" audience--very similar to the Dixie Chicks feeling betrayed by their country fans. I've been poo-pooed for this observation, but I really think that Janet, herself, made the decision to go more urban--to go back her roots in a certain respect. I also think that this has a lot to do with the way Michael was treated as well. I would never post this on one of her fan sites because it would start a war, but I'd be very surprised if Janet agrees to do Leno or Letterman due to their jokes during Michael's trial among other more obvious issues relating to her. To me along with MTV,that's a huge disadvantage for Janet--that her access to a performance medium isn't as great as far as selling her cd's because a lot fans relate to Janet as more of a performer than an artist for just her music alone. But then again, I really think that she would rather have moderate sales than use a medium for promotion and part of a "market/system"for lack of a better word, that has mocked and criticized her and her family time and time again.

To tell you the truth, in SOME respects I don't blame Janet at all--much in the same way I don't blame the Dixie Chicks. I really thought it was disgusting the way Leno in particular mocked Michael, for example. I know it's his job to be funny and through satire make a type of social commentary, but some things just arent' funny--and I'm not even a Michael Jackson fan. Then of course there are the issues that have to do with Janet herself--casual or maybe former fans as well as potential ones ( the general public) not believing her stories or explanations about anything and also constantly criticizing her artistic and marketing choices. That has to grate eventually, ya know?

Janet said something very interesting on Oprah: she said Jermaine Jackson is now the family member she is closest to. Well Jermaine has been very vocal about his dissatisfaction in regard to the way the Jackson's have been treated. I really think that there is a lot of resentment inside Janet that she probably won't address as openly as say the Dixie Chicks, but it's there anyway, and it reveals itself in subtle ways. She also said on Oprah that loyalty is very important to her, so I would think the fact that maybe some former fans have abandoned her--in Janet's mind--that's more about them than it is about her with her artistic, marketing and even life-choices. I really believe in Janet's mind that it's more about unconditional love on many levels including her fandom. So just through what she has said and her actions, I think it's more about taking or leaving her--and in her mind real fans are going to stick by her no matter what.

So I think that this cd may have been an attempt to distance herself in a way from some in the pop audience--particularly since it's been promoted in more of the urban market at the risk of actually weeding-out her fanbase because those who don't hang around aren't really fans to begin with--from what I've been able to observe through the communication we have received. The only difference between Janet and the Dixie Chicks is that the Chicks are going to be very candid about the way they feel whether through their music or in interviews. Janet's not going to go that far.
[Edited 10/6/06 5:41am]

Why would Janet feel betrayed by her pop audience? Because of the SB backlash?

She'd never do Leno but she's been on Letterman multiple times. Why not go on there? She's in a weird place--a lot of people are just tired of the Jacksons, period. The Nipplegate broke the camels back for some of them. She also won't go on a few shows because of the way they've talked about her brother. Understandable and to my knowledge Leno is the only one but there may be others. She can't get on MTV to save her life. What's a girl to do?

JackieBlue said:

Jackie... I just think that it relates to the criticism...from a lot of different sources that are sort of "representative" of pop culture. Some of the reaction to this criticism, I do understand. It's like no matter what she says... it's never the "right" thing unless it's what people want to hear, ya know? No matter what direction she takes, it's never the right one unless it's the one that people want her to take --except for those fans who will take her no matter what. I don't think Janet or JD can be objective about it in a way. This is obviously just based upon speculation and participation as a "fan" who has been critical, but still supportive. I swear it's like it's either you're a hater or a fan.. there is no in between. And because the dynamics are so complicated it's so very easy to confuse the issue.

I'm not sure about Letterman either because he also joked about Michael a little, and also pressed her a bit the last time she was on the show. That's why I think her options are sort of limited but....I'm obviously no expert so it's all just discussion and speculation. I could be completely wrong.

It's a very sad time for me as a fan though because I'm not a "drone," and I can be objective. But the problem is that any criticism I might make--any responsibility that I might suggest that Janet take--well I'm not a true fan.

Frankly-she's fine right now. The woman is in Paris.. so she ain't worried about--anything. lol

As an expert on who has said what against Michael, Letterman has probably been the least vindictive in his comments/jokes. Oprah has been worse, and Leno obviously. Letterman probably has more pull worldwide cos his show is syndicated in more countries.

It can't matter to Janet at all since she went on Rosie O'Donnell a few years ago and she's the worst of them all. The only person I can think of that hasn't said a mean thing is Ellen.

I think she'll tour regardless. First of all, I wish folks would quit bugging off the fact that it ranked number two on the charts. They are calling it her lowest first week selling project since "The Velvet Rope" but hell, that CD ended up selling 5 million units with a successful tour to follow! Janet Jackson has a fanbase that will support her no matter what she does. The tour might now be a blown-out affair like her last few outings, but I think she will put on a concert that will be just as memorable.

Damn, kid. First folks wait for Beyonce to fall off and now the same people are ready to hang Janet.

Ellie said:

Oprah was worse, really?? wow. I don't watch Oprah all that much. And Rosie?? wow. But she just recently returned to television?? I'm not a huge Rosie fan anyway... well she's ok.

I guess I'm talking about the most recent trial. I really haven't watched Leno since. I just thought his whole take was completely unnecessary and unfunny.

I thought that Letterman and Leno were sort of competing against each other last summer for the Michael jokes..

Yeah.. It's just a complicated situation, I think, really more so than with other artists who don't have as much "controversy." Or maybe not.. Like I said, I'm more of a "social commentator" than music critic. I guess I sort of look at things from more of a "social" perspective.

An objective fan is the best fan because you can be critical and see the whole picture. Drones are like JD--too close. And haters are just haters.

Actually I think too much is being made about this. It's nice to come in at #1 but it's not the end all be all. But our society perpetuates the idea that anything less than is unacceptable or a failure and with no patience for longevity, they're quick to move on.

She looked great in Paris.

Isel said:

Rosie is the worst.She has said that Michael is a "pedeophile" and that she refused to speak to him when she saw him at Liza Minneli's wedding several years ago."I don't speak to pedeophiles",she later told her audience.Needless to say,Janet probably wouldn't want to go on "The View",lol.

Yes, even before the trial or accusations Rosie has had a giant chip on her shoulder. She's always been a bitch towards MJ, and not even in a funny "joking about what's in the news" way. Just a nasty vile woman.

Oprah always has the Presleys on her show, and even though Lisa-Marie is the typical bitter ex, you can understand her. Oprah's comments and questions have been nasty, and she did a show dedicated to talking about the MJ case and snatched the microphone away from anyone with a pro-defence argument.

Jay Leno isn't even funny anyway if you take away his Jackson jokes and appalling conduct under oath at the trial.

Janet should do Letterman again, or Ellen - which AT LAST the UK gets as of next week
[Edited 10/6/06 6:18am]

JackieBlue said:

I know.. Didn't she look beautiful in Paris? Miss Janet isn't worried about a damn thing really. I sure as heck wouldn't be if I were in Paris. I love Paris.

I do hope she tours... I would really just like to see her perform live once.
And I agree #2 is great. But I'm not so much into sales anyway. I guess for some people, #2 is substandard for Janet, but not for me.
[Edited 10/6/06 6:25am]

I can't stand Rosie ODonnell anyway.She is so loud,obnoxious and annoying.I'm like "Shut up,please!!"

Isel said:

Yeah, I never follow charts anymore but this became such a race between her and Luda I started biting my nails. I'm glad it's over.

SoulAlive said:

Well. just so you know.. I used to work for an attorney. In fact, I thought about becoming an attorney at one time. Suffice to say, there is a lot that the public doesn't "see" as far as high-profile cases. I don't believe in judging a person's guilt or innocence by the media. Well...it's one thing to make observations about dynamics.. but I don't believe in trial by media. I'll leave it at that.

Isel said:

notably,she made these comments before the most recent trial.When some folks in the audience gasped,she said "Oh come on...if he was innocent,he would not have paid that first boy off".But yeah,I agree with you.

High profile cases as in the media reports yeah, but I read all the court filings and transcripts. Thank KYLIE I can have a life now.
[Edited 10/6/06 6:27am]

Ellie said:

LOL'

Ellie, yeah reading the transcripts.. But there is something about being in the courtroom..and working behind the scenes--really being involved in the case. Then there is the interpretation of the law itself--the judge's instructions..Rules of Evidence.. There's other stuff, too...but this isN'T the Pol. and Rel. section, so I don't even want to bring it up. lol It's really so complicated.

You probably know more than the average person--obviously a lot more than I do about Michael's case. But I'm just talking about the general public as a whole. Just from my observation, many people are so quick to judge. I'm always shocked by that.
[Edited 10/6/06 6:37am]

It's true that there's nothing like being in the courtroom itself.

Poor Janet and Jermaine weren't even allowed in for the verdict and had to wait in the halls and find out from the sounds of the crowd outside. Oh no, but they'll allow an extra 20+ members of the press in

Isel said:

first, they've made that 80 million dollar investment back already with janet., the velvet rope, and all for you. don't you wonder why they stopped marketing her after all for you? they released some dvds and that's it.

second, the label is gonna make sure they don't have any losses. janet has to pay for studio time, she has to pay for distribution, she has to pay for advertising, she has to pay for the tour (minus any sponsors), etc, etc. that money gets put upfront by virgin but it comes out of janet's $80 million deal. think about the cost of advertising, alone...per album. so in the end, virgin's really just putting out half of that figure, if that (which is still a lot of cash). if a cd costs 10 bucks at its cheapest, and they sell 6 million cds worldwide, that's 60 million bucks. now true, they have to take a small percentage out of that to pay janet some royalties but the large bulk of it belongs to virgin.

that's how they recoup their 80 million dollar investmen.