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PrintableTonyVanDam said:
When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! I remember when Luke went after Kid N Play. He did a song called "Pussy Ass Kid and Ho Ass Play".  Andy is a four letter word. | |
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TonyVanDam said: vainandy said: Well, considering that he and some other guy was beating and kicking the hell out of some guy in a lobby just a few hours before his death, I would say "thug life" was more a lifestyle than an image and he was into it till the day he died. He lived by the sword and he died by it. Even if it was just an image (which I don't believe), a thug is an image that is very easy for the everyday person on the street to immitate and follow. You can buy some cheap ass jeans, T-Shirts, bandanas, and baseball caps at Wal-Mart, hell even the Dollar General Store. You can spend very little money to look like a thug and all you need next is to be stupid enough to act like one. Someone like Rick James was a rebellious artist that was more an "image". However, you had to have an imagination, style, and money for a designer to make custom made outfits like Rick James wore. I never saw anyone rob a convenience store with braids, leather pants, and thigh high boots. I've seen many a criminal wearing jeans, T-Shirts, and baseball caps though. CORRECTION: Thugs are not cheap. They like to buy and/or steal things that cost too much money for the average american. And you can't buy the best "bling bling" at Wal-Mart neither. Only wannabe gangstas from the trailer parks would be silly enough to get bling at Wal-Mart! Very true. The shit is very expensive but it looks like it came from Wal-Mart since it's only jeans and T-shirts. I feel like going to Wal-Mart, buying some cheap ass jeans, sewing a name brand label in them, and selling them to the fools for a big price. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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TonyVanDam said: Think about THIS carefully: When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! Now when 2pac diss Biggie, Nas, & Jay-Z on a diss record, why those 3 rappers couldn't try to do the same to him? As much as I think Mobb Deep aren't so special as a rap group, at least I can give them credit for trying to stand up to 2pac & Outlawz by doing a diss record. Anything is better than keeping your mouth shut while someone is trying to destory your character in public. I can't agree with that. Back in the LL/Moe Dee days and before, diss records were fun. But I can't fault Biggie and the others for declining to respond during the climate of the early to mid 90s. I call that maturity. BTW, "Hit 'Em Up" has one of the stupidest lines in the history of music: "Junior M.A.F.I.A., I never heard'a ya." Let me get this straight. The Outlawz name-checked JM on their debut record and said they never heard of them?! That shit is classic.  "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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AlexdeParis said: TonyVanDam said: Think about THIS carefully: When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! Now when 2pac diss Biggie, Nas, & Jay-Z on a diss record, why those 3 rappers couldn't try to do the same to him? As much as I think Mobb Deep aren't so special as a rap group, at least I can give them credit for trying to stand up to 2pac & Outlawz by doing a diss record. Anything is better than keeping your mouth shut while someone is trying to destory your character in public. I can't agree with that. Back in the LL/Moe Dee days and before, diss records were fun. But I can't fault Biggie and the others for declining to respond during the climate of the early to mid 90s. I call that maturity. BTW, "Hit 'Em Up" has one of the stupidest lines in the history of music: "Junior M.A.F.I.A., I never heard'a ya." Let me get this straight. The Outlawz name-checked JM on their debut record and said they never heard of them?! That shit is classic. "Junior M.A.F.I.A., I never heard'a ya" is just a way of saying that they weren't shyt, they're nothing (according to Outlaws). Nonetheless, I agree with Lil'Cease, Biggie should have fired back. Not dissing 2pac at all was a dumb idea on Sean Combs' part. And BTW, Kool Moe Dee did have a serious problem with LL Cool J. He felt that LL was braging on himself too much! [Edited 9/14/06 21:32pm] | |
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TonyVanDam said: AlexdeParis said: I can't agree with that. Back in the LL/Moe Dee days and before, diss records were fun. But I can't fault Biggie and the others for declining to respond during the climate of the early to mid 90s. I call that maturity. BTW, "Hit 'Em Up" has one of the stupidest lines in the history of music: "Junior M.A.F.I.A., I never heard'a ya." Let me get this straight. The Outlawz name-checked JM on their debut record and said they never heard of them?! That shit is classic. [b]"Junior M.A.F.I.A., I never heard'a ya" is just a way of saying that they weren't shyt, they're nothing (according to Outlaws). I know what they meant, but the reality of what they actually said was hilariously ironic. "Whitney was purely and simply one of a kind." ~ Clive Davis | |
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namepeace said:[quote] missfee said: I prefer Propel. And thanks for the smile. You're telling a Tupac fan that he doesn't like his music.
This is what you get when you assume wrongly, missfee. Read before you leap. namepeace said (pay attention): He's "easily" ( thinking about another thread) one of the best to put pen to pad. He was one of the most charismatic MCs in the history of the genre. His death was a great loss and a great waste of talent. He remains an enigma to this day. He is still revered and exploited to this day.
I happen to dig Tupac's music. From "2PACALYPSE NOW" to "I Wonder If Heaven's Got a Ghetto." But open your eyes. In the 10 years since he's died, how many MCs have tried to assume his role? Fitty. Ja. Em. Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. They're all following the Shakur business model, though they don't have the talent or charisma to have the impact that he made. He didn't sign all these people. But he laid the groundwork for them. "Thug Life" was a monster that grew out of control. And he created it. Facts is facts, honeybaby. 1) Tupac created "Thug Life." 2) Tupac sold records by emulating Thug Life. 3) Thug Life killed Tupac. 4) Record companies and lesser talents fell and fall all over themselves trying to be the "next Tupac." I love a lot of his music. I know he was bright, and troubled, and manipulated. But I'm not gonna turn a blind eye to the parts of his legacy that don't fit the myth. How about you? [Edited 9/14/06 16:09pm] Umm in case you didn't notice, I ended this conversation with my last response. I'm done talking with you about this, so please leave me alone. Thanks for your cooperation.  and have a great day.[Edited 9/15/06 5:47am] I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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missfee said: namepeace said: I happen to dig Tupac's music. From "2PACALYPSE NOW" to "I Wonder If Heaven's Got a Ghetto." But open your eyes. In the 10 years since he's died, how many MCs have tried to assume his role? Fitty. Ja. Em. Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. They're all following the Shakur business model, though they don't have the talent or charisma to have the impact that he made. He didn't sign all these people. But he laid the groundwork for them. "Thug Life" was a monster that grew out of control. And he created it. Facts is facts, honeybaby. 1) Tupac created "Thug Life." 2) Tupac sold records by emulating Thug Life. 3) Thug Life killed Tupac. 4) Record companies and lesser talents fell and fall all over themselves trying to be the "next Tupac." I love a lot of his music. I know he was bright, and troubled, and manipulated. But I'm not gonna turn a blind eye to the parts of his legacy that don't fit the myth. How about you? [Edited 9/14/06 16:09pm] Umm in case you didn't notice, I ended this conversation with my last response. I'm done talking with you about this, so please leave me alone. Thanks for your cooperation. and have a great day.
but but...but you posted again? 
 Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: missfee said: Umm in case you didn't notice, I ended this conversation with my last response. I'm done talking with you about this, so please leave me alone. Thanks for your cooperation. and have a great day.
but but...but you posted again?
yeah i did, didn't think they noticed I ended it, but I just wanted it to be known. Didn't want to go on and on and on about it.I will forever love and miss you...my sweet Prince. | |
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diamondpearl1 said: Put Ya lighters up ya'll.....it's been 10 years since the end....what are your thought on his impact now
He was alright but his lyrics were kind of repetative. I hate the fact that he always being compared to Biggie. | |
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namepeace said: dreamfactory313 said: I see Tupac's death as a microcosm of black men in this country. Many have parents who are absent or disinterested but somehow they find a way to fight through this cruel world of ours with little or no guidance. Tupac, like many other men who have met similar ends was extremely charismatic, talented, and intelligent (maybe not wise, but he was certainly intelligent). He had an oppurtunity to give the world so much more. After a young man dies, the first thing that many people ask is, "I wonder what could have been." At least I do. He was strong. He was vulnerable, and his own demons found a way to devour him. I choose to remember Tupac as a fallen soldier, a victim and a perpetrator, but most of all: a human being.
Now, let's not mythologize the cat. He was not a "fallen soldier." Malcolm X was a fallen soldier. Martin Luther King was a fallen soldier. Medgar Evers was a fallen soldier. Tupac Shakur is a tragic loss for all of the reasons you so eloquently stated. [Edited 9/15/06 7:11am] I am in total agreement with you. Malik was assasinated because of trying to bring black people together. King died because of trying to bring black people together. The same with Mr. Evers. Please don't put Tupac in the same catagory with these people. Tupac died in after he and his "peeps" kicked a black mans ass in a hotel lobby. That's no hero's death. Don't get it twisted. [Edited 9/15/06 7:14am] | |
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TonyVanDam said: KingKrazy said: and so is tupac, Biggie in a rap battle would have killed Biggie, and you state that they didn't respond, Why would anybody respond to Pac when pac was using record sales too diss artist, after Pac stopped dissing Biggie, he went after Nas when Nas was the biggest rapper and had the best rap record that summer, IF I RULED THE WORLD, Pac started going after Nas, out of nowhere.Pac in a battle couldn't get at Nas, all he said about Nas is the same ole "you fake gangsta, you wanna be me" bullshit. Pac is lucky nobodd but Mobb Deep decide to shit on Pac, because he would have gotten roasted Pac was a gimmick, he was a good rapper but lyrically again he wasn't that nice, Think about THIS carefully: When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! Now when 2pac diss Biggie, Nas, & Jay-Z on a diss record, why those 3 rappers couldn't try to do the same to him? As much as I think Mobb Deep aren't so special as a rap group, at least I can give them credit for trying to stand up to 2pac & Outlawz by doing a diss record. Anything is better than keeping your mouth shut while someone is trying to destory your character in public. So what was "Who Shot Ya" about?  | |
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vainandy said: TonyVanDam said:
When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! I remember when Luke went after Kid N Play. He did a song called "Pussy Ass Kid and Ho Ass Play". I'm no Luke fan, but he was right. | |
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AlexdeParis said: TonyVanDam said: Think about THIS carefully: When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! Now when 2pac diss Biggie, Nas, & Jay-Z on a diss record, why those 3 rappers couldn't try to do the same to him? As much as I think Mobb Deep aren't so special as a rap group, at least I can give them credit for trying to stand up to 2pac & Outlawz by doing a diss record. Anything is better than keeping your mouth shut while someone is trying to destory your character in public. I can't agree with that. Back in the LL/Moe Dee days and before, diss records were fun. But I can't fault Biggie and the others for declining to respond during the climate of the early to mid 90s. I call that maturity. BTW, "Hit 'Em Up" has one of the stupidest lines in the history of music: "Junior M.A.F.I.A., I never heard'a ya." Let me get this straight. The Outlawz name-checked JM on their debut record and said they never heard of them?! That shit is classic. | |
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missfee said: Umm in case you didn't notice, I ended this conversation with my last response. I'm done talking with you about this, so please leave me alone. Thanks for your cooperation.
and have a great day.
[Edited 9/15/06 5:47am] You had your turn to flex. I was up next. I finished you.  Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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missfee said: sosgemini said: but but...but you posted again?
yeah i did, didn't think they noticed I ended it, but I just wanted it to be known. Didn't want to go on and on and on about it.No, you didn't want anybody to pick apart your weak arguments. And it didn't work. "blah blah blah . . . conversation over." Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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TonyVanDam said: namepeace said: TVD, hate to break this to you, but Biggie woulda ripped him. Namepeace, hate to break this back at you, but Biggie was (and still is) a little overrated. Even Jay-Z & Nas are better than that. Even assuming you're right (and it's hard for me to agree completely on Jay-Z since he admits Biggie was a heavy influence, you would have a better case with Nas), Tupac, for all his lyrical prowess, had neither the flow, creativity, or delivery to win a rhyme fight with Mr. Wallace. He could probably write as well if not better than Biggie. That was his real skill. But he couldn't stand up to a mic and spit rhyme for rhyme with BIG. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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dseann said: namepeace said: Now, let's not mythologize the cat. He was not a "fallen soldier." Malcolm X was a fallen soldier. Martin Luther King was a fallen soldier. Medgar Evers was a fallen soldier. Tupac Shakur is a tragic loss for all of the reasons you so eloquently stated. [Edited 9/15/06 7:11am] I am in total agreement with you. Malik was assasinated because of trying to bring black people together. King died because of trying to bring black people together. The same with Mr. Evers. Please don't put Tupac in the same catagory with these people. Tupac died in after he and his "peeps" kicked a black mans ass in a hotel lobby. That's no hero's death. Don't get it twisted. [Edited 9/15/06 7:14am] Lets be clear. Not once did I put Tupac in the same category as the other leaders mentioned. I undertsand that Tupac fails to rise to the level of martyr, but he was a promising fixture in young black culture. I think he died before he reached maturation. He was a fighter, even though he may have been fighting his own demons more than the socio-political issues that he often wrote and rapped about. In that vein he was certainly a fallen soldier. Hero? Well, thats a more subjective idea. He was a symbol of what being young, black, and neglected was all about. He was the poster child for all the world to see. He lent a voice to those people who felt like they had no voice. | |
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dseann said: namepeace said: Now, let's not mythologize the cat. He was not a "fallen soldier." Malcolm X was a fallen soldier. Martin Luther King was a fallen soldier. Medgar Evers was a fallen soldier. Tupac Shakur is a tragic loss for all of the reasons you so eloquently stated. [Edited 9/15/06 7:11am] I am in total agreement with you. Malik was assasinated because of trying to bring black people together. King died because of trying to bring black people together. The same with Mr. Evers. Please don't put Tupac in the same catagory with these people. Tupac died in after he and his "peeps" kicked a black mans ass in a hotel lobby. That's no hero's death. Don't get it twisted. [Edited 9/15/06 7:14am] King and Malcolm X didn't die because they tried to unify black people, King and X got killed once they seen the bigger picture, if they can unify the poor whites and other minority including black together, there movement will be tenfold, goverment knew that and decide it was time to kill them off. King was killed while trying to help out poor workers, Malcolm X was snuffed out as soon, as he was like whites, blacks, poor people come together, they decide it was time for him to go. | |
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dreamfactory313 said: He was a symbol of what being young, black, and neglected was all about. He was the poster child for all the world to see. He lent a voice to those people who felt like they had no voice.
And with that, I completely agree. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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dseann said: TonyVanDam said: Think about THIS carefully: When Dr.Dre & Snoop Dogg dissed Luke & Eazy-E on a diss record, Luke & Eazy-E dissed them back on their own diss records. And that still counted as real beef! Now when 2pac diss Biggie, Nas, & Jay-Z on a diss record, why those 3 rappers couldn't try to do the same to him? As much as I think Mobb Deep aren't so special as a rap group, at least I can give them credit for trying to stand up to 2pac & Outlawz by doing a diss record. Anything is better than keeping your mouth shut while someone is trying to destory your character in public. So what was "Who Shot Ya" about? Biggie said that he wrote THAT song years earlier while him & 2pac were still the best of friends. Even Sean Combs can verify that the song wasn't about 2pac at all. | |
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namepeace said: TonyVanDam said: Namepeace, hate to break this back at you, but Biggie was (and still is) a little overrated. Even Jay-Z & Nas are better than that. Even assuming you're right (and it's hard for me to agree completely on Jay-Z since he admits Biggie was a heavy influence, you would have a better case with Nas), Tupac, for all his lyrical prowess, had neither the flow, creativity, or delivery to win a rhyme fight with Mr. Wallace. He could probably write as well if not better than Biggie. That was his real skill. But he couldn't stand up to a mic and spit rhyme for rhyme with BIG. Have you ever heard the song, Holla If You Hear Me? THAT was one of 2pac's best flows & deliveries (and the track is at a fast tempo at that!!). Since there's a lot of sampling in a 2pac and a Biggie song, their creativity level is even. | |
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TonyVanDam said: Have you ever heard the song, Holla If You Hear Me? THAT was one of 2pac's best flows & deliveries (and the track is at a fast tempo at that!!).
Since there's a lot of sampling in a 2pac and a Biggie song, their creativity level is even. Yes. He gets as nice as he's ever gotten on that track. But he couldn't flow like BIG. When I think about 'Machine Gun Funk," "Everyday Struggle," "10 Crack Commandments," "Who Shot Ya?" Biggie's flow and delivery was a little more intricate than 'Pac's. He could write with Biggie. I don't question that. Why is it so hard to accept that Tupac was a great MC but not the greatest? Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: TonyVanDam said: Have you ever heard the song, Holla If You Hear Me? THAT was one of 2pac's best flows & deliveries (and the track is at a fast tempo at that!!).
Since there's a lot of sampling in a 2pac and a Biggie song, their creativity level is even. Yes. He gets as nice as he's ever gotten on that track. But he couldn't flow like BIG. When I think about 'Machine Gun Funk," "Everyday Struggle," "10 Crack Commandments," "Who Shot Ya?" Biggie's flow and delivery was a little more intricate than 'Pac's. He could write with Biggie. I don't question that. Why is it so hard to accept that Tupac was a great MC but not the greatest? I never say 2pac was the grestest. But on my list of best rap artists ever, he's #2 (Rakim is #1, and he's the man 2pac look up to!). Why is 2pac culture impact (positive & negative) speaks in bigger volume? THIS alone makes him one of the grestest. Even today, there are far more new rappers that want 2pac-like success more than Biggie-like success. And BTW, there isn't many rap artists I can think of (past or present) that wrote so many songs & poetry at such great numbers as 2pac (I wonder if he had a vault like Prince). As least Jay-Z & Nas still have time to catch up with the numbers. | |
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this is fucking sad... i was expecting a nice little tribute...
after half of page nonesence started.... fucking rap wars ridiculous you guys are no better than the blind stigma these men followed... who the hell cares its just music letitgo I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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TonyVanDam said: I never say 2pac was the grestest. But on my list of best rap artists ever, he's #2 (Rakim is #1, and he's the man 2pac look up to!). Why is 2pac culture impact (positive & negative) speaks in bigger volume? THIS alone makes him one of the grestest. Even today, there are far more new rappers that want 2pac-like success more than Biggie-like success. And BTW, there isn't many rap artists I can think of (past or present) that wrote so many songs & poetry at such great numbers as 2pac (I wonder if he had a vault like Prince). As least Jay-Z & Nas still have time to catch up with the numbers. You get no argument on any of that. He was the Prince of hip-hop to the extent that he was so prolific. As far as impact, I think more MCs want to be like 'Pac because he was more charismatic and didn't weigh as much. But East Coast MCs all revere Biggie, as they should. And, "EmbattledWarrior," there were many tributes to Mr. Shakur here. Mine was the first after the original post. What we're also discussing are ALL of the aspects of his legacy. He left this world one of the best MCs in the history of the game and arguably the most revered pop music artist to die before his time since John Lennon. But he also left this world leaving a blueprint for two-bit, shallow, less talented MCs to rap about death, drugs, "hoes" and money who lack the depth and context he (mostly) brought to it. Which is one of the reasons why hip-hop has gone downhill. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: TonyVanDam said: I never say 2pac was the grestest. But on my list of best rap artists ever, he's #2 (Rakim is #1, and he's the man 2pac look up to!). Why is 2pac culture impact (positive & negative) speaks in bigger volume? THIS alone makes him one of the grestest. Even today, there are far more new rappers that want 2pac-like success more than Biggie-like success. And BTW, there isn't many rap artists I can think of (past or present) that wrote so many songs & poetry at such great numbers as 2pac (I wonder if he had a vault like Prince). As least Jay-Z & Nas still have time to catch up with the numbers. You get no argument on any of that. He was the Prince of hip-hop to the extent that he was so prolific. As far as impact, I think more MCs want to be like 'Pac because he was more charismatic and didn't weigh as much. But East Coast MCs all revere Biggie, as they should. And, "EmbattledWarrior," there were many tributes to Mr. Shakur here. Mine was the first after the original post. What we're also discussing are ALL of the aspects of his legacy. He left this world one of the best MCs in the history of the game and arguably the most revered pop music artist to die before his time since John Lennon. But he also left this world leaving a blueprint for two-bit, shallow, less talented MCs to rap about death, drugs, "hoes" and money who lack the depth and context he (mostly) brought to it. Which is one of the reasons why hip-hop has gone downhill. it doesn't matter anymore, whats done is done!! I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
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EmbattledWarrior said: it doesn't matter anymore,
whats done is done!! Tupac is not only a legend. He's a lesson. We should learn all there is to learn from that lesson. If you don't agree with that, then that's on you. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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Big controlled New York. Pac controlled America. That's the difference. |
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moderatorMalcolm X was snuffed out as soon, as he was like whites, blacks, poor people come together, they decide it was time for him to go.
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dreamfactory313 said: dseann said: [Edited 9/15/06 7:11am] I am in total agreement with you. Malik was assasinated because of trying to bring black people together. King died because of trying to bring black people together. The same with Mr. Evers. Please don't put Tupac in the same catagory with these people. Tupac died in after he and his "peeps" kicked a black mans ass in a hotel lobby. That's no hero's death. Don't get it twisted. [Edited 9/15/06 7:14am] Lets be clear. Not once did I put Tupac in the same category as the other leaders mentioned. I undertsand that Tupac fails to rise to the level of martyr, but he was a promising fixture in young black culture. I think he died before he reached maturation. He was a fighter, even though he may have been fighting his own demons more than the socio-political issues that he often wrote and rapped about. In that vein he was certainly a fallen soldier. Hero? Well, thats a more subjective idea. He was a symbol of what being young, black, and neglected was all about. He was the poster child for all the world to see. He lent a voice to those people who felt like they had no voice. OK. That's cool.  | |
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