independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Hip-Hoppers "Rock" too. An Article...
« Previous topic  Next topic »
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 08/12/02 2:47pm

Essence

Hip-Hoppers "Rock" too. An Article...

The Hip-Hop Generation Grabs a Guitar

By TOURI

T'S near midnight at Joe's Pub in the East Village and the movement is in full
effect. A roomful of twentyish and thirtyish black folk for whom hip-hop has
been like a religion most of their lives are cheering as Mos Def, an esteemed
rapper, roars through a set of hard rock songs, singing over the crunch of heavy
guitars. He launches into a song called "Ghetto Rock." The chorus goes: "Yes, we
are so ghetto! Yes, we are rock 'n' roll!" The song ends, and Mos says, "Y'all
want some more rock 'n' roll?" The crowd screams for more. He tells them: "It's
a whole movement, like Fela with Afrobeat. They laughed at the Wright Brothers.
Noah, too."

There is indeed a movement under way. Rock has long been one of the sounds
hip-hop used in its pastiche, but aside from groups like Outkast and GooDie Mob,
who drench themselves in funked-out rock, it has consisted of a sampled riff
here and there. Now the hip-hop generation is grabbing guitars and making rock
'n' roll.

"This is the sound of new America," said Martin Luther, a rising rock musician
from San Francisco. "I'm coming to kill all the slave masters' memories! Hip-hop
gave us that voice that allowed us to create who we were. Black rock 'n' roll is
now a next something for those kids who've grown up, who still have that urban
energy, but have experienced some pain to where they don't feel embarassed about
showing some vulnerability."

This new black rock movement has been around a few years, and its audience is
small but growing. Though blacks created the rock 'n' roll and blues music that
paved the way for whites to become early rock innovators, blacks have largely
shunned rock both as fans and as players for decades. In the 1960's Jimi Hendrix
was dismissed by many blacks for playing what they called "white boy music."

Today's black rockers see such obstacles as challenges they gladly accept. They
are moved by the sonic aggression of hip-hop, its obsession with rhythm and the
way it reflects, reports on and evokes the lifestyles of black people around the
country. They are also turned off by the current state of hip-hop and R &B, with
their limited subject matter and emotional options.

Their sound is most often a deeply soul-inflected rock reminiscent of the
mellower moments of Jimi Hendrix, Prince and Parliament Funkadelic rather than
the full-on guitar assault of Fishbone or Living Colour. Much of this rock is
difficult to distinguish from soul music, but the musicians use the word rock to
distance themselves, they say, from the overly produced treacle that passes for
modern soul.

Rock, they say, gives them the freedom to express their own ideas. Santi White
of Stiffed said: "There's a Smiths song that I love that says, `Hang the D.J.
because the music he constantly plays says nothing to me about my life.' And
that's how I felt. So I said, `Fine, I'm going to find some music that does say
something about my life.' "

The undisputed aesthetic leader of the movement is an eccentric, 33-year-old,
Atlanta-born Los Angeles resident named Cody Chestnutt. He wears a royal blue
velvet hat with a large gold buckle that is a cross between a fedora and a
stovepipe; answers the phone by saying "Praise the Lord"; and always carries his
own drinking glass, a stout bowl-like cup with curved edges that looks like
something out of the film "Beetlejuice."

In October he will release his debut album, "The Headphone Masterpiece," a
stunning collection of 36 mostly laid-back songs on which he sings and plays
nearly every instrument. He recorded the album in his bedroom using $10,000
worth of equipment. Its lo-fi quality adds a homespun charm to what he calls
"rock with a soulful edge," which recalls the Beatles, the Velvet Underground
and the Strokes as well as Sly Stone, Prince and D'Angelo.

Mr. Chestnutt said he was a drummer who wrote "the typical smoothed-out R &B"
until he heard Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit." "I heard `Teen Spirit,' and
I said that's what it's about," he said. "It's powerful, it's passionate, it's
living and breathing right now. That song inspired me to pick up the guitar. And
the guitar was the turning point."

That was about seven years ago. Since then Mr. Chestnutt has not held a job,
but, supported by his wife and friends, he has spent his time studying the
guitar and searching for a sound that moved him. "I was blessed with having
soul," he said, "but I went out to see what's going with the rock 'n' roll that
I'm not familiar with. Hip-hop was not speaking to me. I didn't feel like I was
learning anything. I was saying, how can I get the same soul that hip-hop has,
but have an intellectual stimulation about it?"

His first single, "Look Good in Leather," is a deceptively simple ditty that
begins with him strumming an acoustic guitar and singing, "I can do anything I
want because I look good in leather." What follows is four minutes of bodacious
black male vanity and egotism of the sort often heard in hip-hop. It also extols
a quintessentially American sartorial style and is thus a celebration of
Americana.

"That is the Fonz's theme song," Mr. Chestnutt said, referring to the character
in the 1970's television show "Happy Days." "This is what `Happy Days' taught
us. What defines cool? Black leather jacket and jeans."

Such a song would not be possible in hip-hop because of its largely contentious
relationship with America and Americanness. Even hip-hop's embrace of the
American designer Tommy Hilfiger carries a certain ironic sneer. "Hip-hop
brought the whole thing to the next level," Mr. Chestnutt said. "Now it's time
to evolve into the future."

The 32-year-old Martin Luther is another major voice. His 1999 debut album,
"The Calling," and its followup, "Funk Soul Rebel," to be released in the fall,
evoke the rock-meets-swinging-funk of Bootsy Collins and Parliament-Funkadelic.
Last year Res (pronounced Reese), a singer from Philadelphia, released "How I
Do," a collection of seductive post-punk that recalled the Pretenders, with
lyrics about self-empowerment that harked back to the roaring female
singer-songwriters of the 70's. Most of her songs were written by Santi White,
whose band Stiffed has toured with the seminal black punk-hardcore rock band Bad
Brains and is releasing a seven-song EP this fall.

A number of hip-hop luminaries are also moving into rock territory: the rapper
Mos Def, who is starring in "Topdog/Underdog" on Broadway, has been performing
and recording with his band Black Jack Johnson, which, filled out by members of
Living Colour, Bad Brains and P-Funk, has a hard-edged rock sound reminiscent of
Bad Brains or Fishbone. Kamaal, the silky-voiced rapper once known as Q-Tip from
A Tribe Called Quest, has recorded an unreleased album of rock-slash-soul on
which he sings. And the top hip-hop producers the Neptunes, calling themselves
N.E.R.D., recently released "In Search Of," a critically acclaimed album that
features live instruments and singing. It's music that can be classified only as
rock 'n' roll.

"I could do my thing over a hip-hop beat," Mr. Luther said, seeming to speak
for the movement. "But when I do it my way, with these guitars and solos and
breakdowns, you actually feel the gospel spirit from which I'm speaking, and the
music talks to you in a different place."

Mr. Chestnutt said he was dismayed by rappers' and R &B singers' obsession with
money, crime, sex, love and their own anger. "Music today doesn't inspire a
dialogue," he said. "And if it does, the dialogue is quite hollow. What good
does it do me and you to talk about how much you spent on jewelry? It doesn't
edify."

Rock, he and the others maintain, allows a greater range of musical, lyrical
and emotional expression. "In rock you could write a song about a dog and it
makes sense," he said. On "The Headphone Masterpiece," Mr. Chestnutt offers
songs about how nicotine and caffeine can make it hard to behave like a
civilized human being, delivers a lullaby to a baby in which he tells the baby
how lucky it is to not have to work and even mentions that he sometimes cries.

"Vulnerability doesn't work at all in hip-hop," Mr. Luther said. "You don't
want to expose a weakness in that arena. Rock 'n' roll has no boundaries. You
can talk about your dreams, fears, all kinds of things."

The new black rockers are closeknit: they play songs for each other over the
phone and collaborate with one another in the studio. Most of them are friends.

"It's so important to have that," Ms. White said, "because you think you're
crazy sometimes. Because everyone's like, `What are you doing?' And labels are
like, `That won't sell.' And having the others is like having a mirror that
talks back. They're saying what you're doing is dope. Then someone will call and
say I'm going to quit music. And we're there for each other because you need
somebody when you're doing something that a lot of people aren't doing, just to
know that you're not lost."

But the barriers for the new black rock are high. Consider the the all-black
hard-rock band Living Colour. With an endorsement from Mick Jagger and a 1988
hit single, "Cult of Personality," it gained prominence, touring with the
Rolling Stones and reaching No. 6 on the Billboard Top 200 Albums Chart. But
three subsequent albums sold sluggishly, and in 1995 the quartet disbanded.

Its failure to make a lasting impact was partly because of its inability to
reach an audience. Perhaps America was unprepared for blacks performing rock 'n'
roll, or perhaps the recording industry was unsure of whether to play the
group's music on urban radio and BET or on rock radio and MTV. And as
unaccustomed as whites might have been to seeing blacks play guitars, blacks
were unwilling to see rock as an acceptable form of self-expression for black
musicians. To many blacks, rock was still "some old white mess."

The new black rockers have already been embraced by MTV: Res's video is played
regularly, Mr. Chestnutt was featured on "MTV News" and the Neptunes are
ubiquitous on the channel. Still, there's no reason to expect that the movement
won't encounter the old stigmas.

"Black people in this country are told that they are just a few things," Kamaal
said. "The minute that you start to wander and go outside of that you're not
black."

Corey Glover, the lead singer of Living Colour, added to the thought: "There
are some things you're not allowed to express as a black person. You got to be
in your b-boy stance. You've got to wear the uniform. If you're out of the
uniform, something's wrong with you. My whole life it's been like, `He's cool,
he speaks the language, but something's wrong with that boy.' But the freak
contingent in the house is bigger than you think it is."

Living Colour needed not simply to move the crowd, but also to get the crowd to
accept the band's validity, and that demanded changing the perception of
blackness for countless listeners, a burden that neither U2 nor Jay-Z ever had
to shoulder.

The persistent message of hip-hop and R &B is that working-class life is the
most relevant of black American experiences: "keep it real" is often code for
validating one set of mores to the exclusion of all others. Expanding the nature
of music means expanding the definition of what it means to be black in America.
The new black rock movement has talent, ambition, guitars and minds it has to
change.

"I would love for some little black kid to look at me and be like, `If she's
doing it then I can do it and still be black,' " Ms. White said. "Black people
limit ourselves. We're like, `Oh, if you do that you're not black.' But I'm
black and I'm going to do anything I want to do. Then it'll be black because I
did it."


Touri, a contributing editor for Rolling Stone magazine, is the author of ''The
Portable Promised Land,'' a collection of short stories (Little Brown).



Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 08/12/02 3:24pm

LadyCabDriver

did u notice that there's no mention of Lenny Kravitz in this article???
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 08/12/02 3:52pm

LesGrinds

avatar

Yeah, I did.

I want to know more about Martin Luther. Anyone?

..and while I'm asking, how about Kinky? Not really related, but I just heard about them and want to know more. And which Rebirth Brass Band album should I buy?
__________________________________________
"You can always change your underwear."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 08/12/02 4:16pm

classic77

I'm glad to see the boundaries of hip hop music being stretched beyond what is currently considered hip hop(ie the cookie cutter assembly line formula).
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 08/12/02 4:29pm

tommyalma

Seems that the same limitations are placed on white guys who dare try to rap, or sing soul, or, I don't know, create Japanese geisha soundtracks. It sucks that people aren't "supposed" to make whatever music feels right to them.

Take that guy from 90210. Brian Austin Green. Now, I'm sure he really felt like his hip-hop came from his soul. Guys like that don't just put out records to make money or anything, I mean he was a true artist. Like Snow. But did he get respect (some might say "props") from the Black (some would say "African-American," or just lowercase "black") community? NO. Racism and prejudice are destroying this country in the exact same way they destroyed Brian Austin Green's career. When will the hatred end?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 08/12/02 5:13pm

Supernova

avatar

tommyalma said:

Seems that the same limitations are placed on white guys who dare try to rap, or sing soul, or, I don't know, create Japanese geisha soundtracks. It sucks that people aren't "supposed" to make whatever music feels right to them.

Take that guy from 90210. Brian Austin Green. Now, I'm sure he really felt like his hip-hop came from his soul. Guys like that don't just put out records to make money or anything, I mean he was a true artist. Like Snow. But did he get respect (some might say "props") from the Black (some would say "African-American," or just lowercase "black") community? NO. Racism and prejudice are destroying this country in the exact same way they destroyed Brian Austin Green's career. When will the hatred end?

He's an actor. If you check you'll find actors of all races aren't usually successful when they enter the music field. And vice versa with musicians entering the acting field. Why would he need props from the Black community? They're not running the music industry, and at least 70% of sales of hip hop isn't being sold to Blacks. The most successful White hip hop performers are the Beastie Boys and Eminem. Had they been actors prior to trying to launch a rap career there's a good chance they wouldn't be successful either.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 08/12/02 5:47pm

ChimChimBadass

avatar

I think there's an audience for Black Rock...in Europe at least, we don't got any problem with a brother playing the guitar here.
We're civilized biggrin !
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 08/12/02 6:51pm

mistermaxxx

ChimChimBadass said:

I think there's an audience for Black Rock...in Europe at least, we don't got any problem with a brother playing the guitar here.
We're civilized biggrin !
Yep A Guy over 30 Years back Named Jimi Hendrix Rocked your Country Proper&Here as well.there is a Audience always but there is also a Price to Pay from within Our Own Community.if the Guitar ain't plucking Chicken Scratch or is out front too much then A Brother gonna have a Hard time Selling it back within.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 08/12/02 6:54pm

mistermaxxx

classic77 said:

I'm glad to see the boundaries of hip hop music being stretched beyond what is currently considered hip hop(ie the cookie cutter assembly line formula).
Hip-Hop always was Stretched back when Run Dmc was doing there thing,Whodini were rocking out as well.Public Enemy,Ice T.etc.. always had Rock Elements in there Music but somewhere along the lines MC Hammer's "Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em'" became the Rap Staple of how to Blow up.not to mention every few Years a New Logo Blinging there Name&Company on you&there Acts are Pushed outwardly.the Game wasn't always like this.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 08/12/02 7:04pm

mistermaxxx

tommyalma said:

Seems that the same limitations are placed on white guys who dare try to rap, or sing soul, or, I don't know, create Japanese geisha soundtracks. It sucks that people aren't "supposed" to make whatever music feels right to them.

Take that guy from 90210. Brian Austin Green. Now, I'm sure he really felt like his hip-hop came from his soul. Guys like that don't just put out records to make money or anything, I mean he was a true artist. Like Snow. But did he get respect (some might say "props") from the Black (some would say "African-American," or just lowercase "black") community? NO. Racism and prejudice are destroying this country in the exact same way they destroyed Brian Austin Green's career. When will the hatred end?
He is about as true as Pat Boone doing a Metal Album give me a Break?Brian Austin Green wasn't even a Scott Baio of a Actor on TV let alone a Credible Rapper.He signed with Yab Yum Records.Babyface's Wife's Label.Snow was catchy until He Melted.Eminem is Respected because of His Wit&Humor.but He is predictable as all Hell IMHO.Beastie Boys just did there thing"Brass Monkey" still gets much Play.but as far as White Rappers Go give me 3rd base anyday overall IMHO.White Dollars Represent 70-80% of all Rap-Hip-Hop Sales.
mistermaxxx
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 08/12/02 9:46pm

tommyalma

Wow, the irony in my Brian Austin Green post went totally over your heads. Sorry about that.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 08/12/02 10:01pm

Supernova

avatar

Emoticons help when you're new.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 08/13/02 4:36am

IceNine

avatar

tommyalma said:

Wow, the irony in my Brian Austin Green post went totally over your heads. Sorry about that.



You will find that irony and sarcasm go right over most people's heads on here at most times... Don't let it get you down, I understood what you were saying and I think that it is terrible what happened to that poor, young ghetto-rapping teen star. Tragic.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 08/13/02 9:14am

tommyalma

Supernova said:

Emoticons help when you're new.

You mean those smiley faces and that thing for the poop monkey from the other forum? I'll pass.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 08/13/02 10:41am

Supernova

avatar

tommyalma said:

Supernova said:

Emoticons help when you're new.

You mean those smiley faces and that thing for the poop monkey from the other forum? I'll pass.

No, they're not all smiley faces. And I don't know anything about something for a poop monkey. I hope I don't find out either.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 08/13/02 1:37pm

classic77

mistermaxxx said:

classic77 said:

I'm glad to see the boundaries of hip hop music being stretched beyond what is currently considered hip hop(ie the cookie cutter assembly line formula).
Hip-Hop always was Stretched back when Run Dmc was doing there thing,Whodini were rocking out as well.Public Enemy,Ice T.etc.. always had Rock Elements in there Music but somewhere along the lines MC Hammer's "Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em'" became the Rap Staple of how to Blow up.not to mention every few Years a New Logo Blinging there Name&Company on you&there Acts are Pushed outwardly.the Game wasn't always like this.



No the game wasn't always like this thats why i stated the boundaries being stretched beyond what is CURRENTLY considered hip hop. Hip hop sucks right now except for a handful of artists. I don't even believe its reached its full potential as an art form.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 08/13/02 3:14pm

tommyalma

Yeah, remember "Supersonic" by JJ Fadd, and that really minimalist song that goes "Sally...that girl," and something about her being wet? Hi-top fades? Cross Colors? Those were the days.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 08/13/02 3:21pm

tommyalma

Supernova said:

tommyalma said:

Supernova said:

Emoticons help when you're new.

You mean those smiley faces and that thing for the poop monkey from the other forum? I'll pass.

No, they're not all smiley faces. And I don't know anything about something for a poop monkey. I hope I don't find out either.

It's from this one: http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=20133

And the emoticons seem cheesy.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 08/13/02 3:37pm

Supernova

avatar

tommyalma said:

Supernova said:

tommyalma said:

Supernova said:

Emoticons help when you're new.

You mean those smiley faces and that thing for the poop monkey from the other forum? I'll pass.

No, they're not all smiley faces. And I don't know anything about something for a poop monkey. I hope I don't find out either.

It's from this one: http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=20133

And the emoticons seem cheesy.

Fair enough. I'm just saying you can't really expect people to know your sarcasm when you're new here.
This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 08/14/02 2:03am

Novabreaker

I got it on the first round, Tommy. Ain't I smart?

I'd hate be completely prejudiced, but NEVER EVER use sarcasm in the same room with an American. Just to make sure, you know.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 08/14/02 7:39am

IceNine

avatar

Novabreaker said:

I got it on the first round, Tommy. Ain't I smart?

I'd hate be completely prejudiced, but NEVER EVER use sarcasm in the same room with an American. Just to make sure, you know.


I am an American and I am a master of irony and sarcasm... I think that you will find that some of us are quite adept in our irony and such...
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 08/14/02 10:11am

RandomDuck

avatar

IceNine said:



I am an American and I am a master of irony and sarcasm... I think that you will find that some of us are quite adept in our irony and such...

Icenine, are you being sarcastic? wink
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 08/14/02 10:49am

IceNine

avatar

RandomDuck said:

IceNine said:



I am an American and I am a master of irony and sarcasm... I think that you will find that some of us are quite adept in our irony and such...

Icenine, are you being sarcastic? wink


Nice one!

:LOL:
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 08/15/02 2:40am

Novabreaker

I was saying "just to make sure". The odds are usually rather too risky!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Hip-Hoppers "Rock" too. An Article...