In talking to my long time friend and conjoined Prince fan, D, he revealed a theory of his of which I was not aware. Being brought up without television I was not as exposed to the visual aspects of Prince. We started talking design, let us take a walk down memory lane…

In the 1980’s up through Lovesexy (1988) it’s safe to say that Prince was the ‘leader’ and not the ‘follower’ in fashion and music. He was always a head of the game, Purple Rain was top of the pops, ATWIAD was his 'Sgt. Peppers', Parade was his (albeit contrived) 'film nior/ French period'. The very successful SOTT was his 'modernist avante garde’ small soul of beauty in a big world' but then people started to say that with those last three LP's in tow, Prince couldn’t lay down the funk anymore. He didn’t just get mad, he got even. He painted his canvas black, and created the infamous Funk Bible. (more commonly known as The Black Album). But then an angel came to him (so the story goes) and told him that if he released that album it would be his last. So he changed it up and proudly committed commercial suicide with Lovesexy. He knew that he wouldn’t be able to ‘stop the press’ with that record but he knew it was the right thing to do. So the press hated it, only the die-hards understood Lovesexy and got what Prince was about.

Prince knew he was no longer the fore-runner, it was time to cash in. Batman was a high finance venture, it wasn’t about the art it was the money, and it was a success just like it should’ve been. At which point WB says “He we like Prince in the movies, let’s do Purple Rain II” and Graffiti Bridge was born. Again not as brilliant as Princes’ previous work but still funky in that early 90’s Bel Biv Devo style, he got a number one hit with Tevin doing ‘Round and Round’ and a big success with his own single ‘Theives’.

Now the money was there and Prince had a new band. He had the record company backing it was time for a revamp and as we all know that ‘new’ look and sound was D&P. This is where my friends opinion comes into play. He mentioned the look of that era, ‘Gangster Glam’ as Prince had labeled it. It was ultimate fashion meets ultimate power. The videos where like this “elite group of people that no one could touch” but it still had the same message of Princes’ free sexuality and fun. It still had the feel of “I’m a sexual pixie and this is my fairy realm, I’ll show you that Love is what’s important” but there was an underlying feel of power and class.

It was after D&P that Prince signed the 60Million contract with WB for Six albums. Now anyone who knows anything knows that 60Million is a heck of a lot of money. It’s very possible that it went to his head, at least that’s my assessment based on what my friend remembers from that fateful day in 1992 when he saw the video for ‘My Name Is Prince’. “There he was... half bondage, half gangster, all fruitcake standing on top on the limo with a cop hat and gold chains draped over his face singing about how tough he was and how great he was and how if you weren’t about him you weren’t anything… you’re supposed to listen to him about a ‘better way’ and yet it’s all praise him and until he gets your daughter he won’t leave this town... he was acting like he was Ramsis II with the pryimids and the Pharo look” This wasn’t the view that the public wanted obviously, my friend (for example) continued to like Prince but stopped buying records. Had Prince overstepped his boundaries? Had he waved his junk around in a way that nobody wanted to see? Was he trying to be hard like Ice-T when he was famous for being this little pixie/sex nymph? Had he made the mistake he had avoided earlier with the black album? or Had he simply got too big for his britches?

I had never thought of all this in these terms, but I bet that D’s reaction was the same as many Prince fans. The Ironic thing is that Prince didn’t admit his mistake, instead he blamed WB for their treatment of him. I’m not saying that Warner was perfect but come on, ‘My Name Is Prince’ is not only a lame song, it’s a total ego stroke. It never should’ve been the first single from that record. If ‘7’ or even ‘Sexy MF’ had been the first single I bet that everything we know about Prince would be different…

What do you think? What about 'Muse 2 the Pharo', does Prince still think he's Ramsis II? Does he not realise what happended to him?
>>>
[This message was edited Thu Jul 25 16:08:51 PDT 2002 by Cornerman]
[This message was edited Thu Jul 25 16:09:52 PDT 2002 by Cornerman]

Cornerman said:

Load of bollocks. I'd ask D to post their own theories - they obviously have time on their hands to dream this up.

I don't think about Prince that much. I just enjoy his music and concerts.

langebleu said:

Are you just going to leave it there like a fart in a car? I spent an hour typing this, and most of it is fact via history. If you're going to say that it's 'bullocks' then you'd better say which part and why. Also, my friend (as I was very clear about in the posting) is a Prince fan who isn't into Prince to the extent of spending time here or joining the NPGMC, Prince is one of the many things he listens to. Therefore he can not be expected to post here and I am posting this as a topic for discussion. What the hell do you think about that's so important if you're on this site too?

30 views and 2 posts and all I get is: "I don't think about the commercial aspects of the music I like, I prefer not to know."

so much for a Prince discussion board! F'n A!

Cornerman said:

First of all I do believe that "Sexy MF" was the first single from they "Symbol" album being as it was released before the album came out. I think it was his "birthday release" trying to follow up on the success of "Gett Off"

I actually like your ideas even I do not agree with them 100% in the way that you stated them. Prince did make a lot of "ego based" decisions along the way and it cost him dearly.


I don't think the "My Name is Prince" video cost him as dearly as the name change or later on writing "slave" across his face. This to me is when people stopped looking at Prince as an eccentric, but as crazy.

As far as "muse" is concerned ummm...this album never stood a chance no matter what he did or what he released. It's just too odd for the mainstream public.

"Sexy MF" indeed WAS the first single released from . It didn't fare too well, which is why many might believe that "My Name Is Prince" was the first single. My opinion is that Prince's commercial wisdom began to decay shortly after the album. Starting with the Gold Experience and ending with Rave, Prince relased a series of records with some hit potential, but bad promotion, unwise single choices and/or untimely videos plagued any chance for success, not to mention the fact that the public already viewed him as a freak.

Furthermore, Prince's ego was in high gear long before . Not even having had a top ten hit, he was bold enough to believe that the public would stomach a double LP in 1982, which truly indicates that he believed his music to be supreme. He was right. One LP would not suffice to hold the experimental masterpiece that is "1999." The success of that record only led him to higher aspirations, such as a grandiose semi-autobiographical movie. The success of "Purple Rain" afforded him the opportunity to delve into more psychodelic territory now that he had the public's attention. "Around the World in a Day" topped the Billboard Album charts for 3 weeks despite not having a single released prior to the album. Then came the contest in 1986 for the premiere of "Under the Cherry Moon," the result of which was nearly disastrous as he at first refused to attend the opening in Wyoming, but was coaxed into consenting by MTV. Aspirations continued with the planned sprawling 3 LP opus "Dream Factory"/"Crystal Ball." It was whittled down to 2 LPs, but became an enormous success critically. Then came "La La La He He Hee," a wonderful B-side written to satisfy a challenge put forth by Sheena Easton that Prince "couldn't write a song about just anything." All of these bold moves indicate an artist who has great confidence in his abilities and his knack for continuing to seduce the public. Prince has always been a showman full of talent. During the 80s, the aesthetic of the time permitted a character like Prince to exist, but by the early 90s, rap and grunge became the mainstream, rendering most 80s acts helpless to compete. Even Michael Jackson and Madonna suffered the backlash. Only Madonna was able to fully recover.

Cornerman said:[quote]

langebleu said:

Here we go then: with some of the 'facts' you provided 'via history'. For example,

'So he changed it up and proudly committed commercial suicide with Lovesexy. He knew that he wouldn’t be able to ‘stop the press’ with that record but he knew it was the right thing to do. So the press hated it, only the die-hards understood Lovesexy and got what Prince was about.'

Some of the press hated it, some loved it. The album, tour, televised concert and subsequent video release demonstrated that Prince was regarded in Europe as a commercial success - as opposed to committing commercial suicide.

Again:

'At which point WB says “He we like Prince in the movies, let’s do Purple Rain II” and Graffiti Bridge was born.'

Graffiti Bridge was born as a result of WB deciding this? And at this point in time??? Discussion for the project, based on a rough plot outline, took place with Madonna as early as October 1987, (before the release of The Black Album, Lovesexy and Batman soundtrack).

But, to the core of the theory:

“There he was... half bondage, half gangster, all fruitcake standing on top on the limo with a cop hat and gold chains draped over his face singing about how tough he was and how great he was and how if you weren’t about him you weren’t anything… you’re supposed to listen to him about a ‘better way’ and yet it’s all praise him and until he gets your daughter he won’t leave this town... he was acting like he was Ramsis II with the pryimids and the Pharo look”

Prince is dressed up with a cop hat and gold chains draped across his face standing on a limo, and this contributes, for you (or for your friend) to suggesting he is 'acting like Ramsis II with the pryimids and the Pharo look". What??? What is this 'Pharo look'. Half-bondage (you must have meant full-bandage?), half gangster??? Certainly, I can find no trace of Ramses II or other Pharaoh's (Ramses II is understood by scientists to have had red hair) wearing a cop hat, draping gold chains across his face, or dancing on a limo. The mummified visage of Ramses II bears little resemblance to Prince, in particular. If you come across a tomb with deceased royalty sporting a gun microphone, Egyptologists the world over will be fascinated to hear from you. The 0(+> album has a pyramid on the album sleeve and the lettering (together with the Princess Mayte / 3 Chains o' Gold plot line) has middle eastern and egyptian references, but I see no direct reference to Ramses II.

Of course, this could all be allusion, with you referencing a well-known, powerful Pharaoh (with many wives) by way of example, but you persist with the final comment:

'What about 'Muse 2 the Pharo', does Prince still think he's Ramsis II?'

There's precious little evidence that he did in the first place.

And then, there is the masterpiece: '

I’m not saying that Warner was perfect but come on, ‘My Name Is Prince’ is not only a lame song, it’s a total ego stroke. It never should’ve been the first single from that record. If ‘7’ or even ‘Sexy MF’ had been the first single I bet that everything we know about Prince would be different…'

Yes ... as has been pointed out already, 'Sexy MF' was the first single' released on 30 June, 1992 and charting at #66, whereas 'My Name Is Prince' appeared on 29 September 1992 and peaked on Billboard at #36 - so don't go making that bet any time soon.

Moonbeam said:

Good observation...except 4 the last sentence.

The only reason y Madonna recovers from ANYTHING is because she chases trends.

She's at the will of teenagers! God help her...

.
[This message was edited Fri Jul 26 6:23:31 PDT 2002 by Nep2nes]

Nep2nes said:

Madonna SETS the trends.

Well, this was a bust. Obviously I'm a horrible Prince hater who doesn't know shit. I was hoping that (however unpopular) someone would understand the perception and discuss it with me. Oh well. We live and learn.

It was a much bigger contract than 60 million. But it may have had something to do with him treading water throughout the 90s. That doesn't mean that I think every single thing he released during that time was expendable, but his consistency wasn't close to what he attained in the 80s (and even during that decade everything he released wasn't a masterpiece as some would have you believe).

Prince has said that after SOTT he had nothing to prove, that's the type of complacency he had. And it was obvious he was complacent. He just seemed like he released music for the sake of releasing it. He says he wants a large body of work, ok fine. But having a large body of work at expense of maintaining your musical integrity isn't worth it in the long run. Adding rappers to your music just because it's the in thing to do is contrived, and indicates the fact that he lost focus of what made him special in the first place; he had made his own rules and didn't worry about what everyone else thought. He started looking over his shoulder instead of being forward-thinking.

I guess it's just something he had to go through, in retrospect. To see the error in his ways. And it seems he recognizes that.

I don't think his heart was in a lot of that music he created back then. I also think his professional battles with WB (which didn't just start in the 90s) sapped him of a lot of his creative energy. Not only was he angry, I think he was out to spite them by creating/releasingpunch the clock-type of music, just to hurry up and get out of his contractual obligation. Consequently this alienated many of his fans, so it hurt his career more than it did the behemoth that is Warner Brothers.

In the aftermath I think he wanted to be as commercial as possible, regardless of quality, to achieve some chart success. There were many songs from Emancipation that could have reached the charts had that album been promoted right. I also think Rave had potential hits. Now, don't mistake me thinking that those songs had hit potential with me thinking the songs were worthy of Prince at his best. That's not one and the same thing all the time.

That was then, this is now. Lately things seem to be looking up. I see more fire in Prince's belly than I have in a long time.

If he ever lost any of his fire I feel he has regained it. I feel he is coming back bigger and better than ever before. The Rainbow Children proves just that. What a Masterpiece. And the cds for the members are really excellent. The Piano work is really well done. His voice is really clear and he's in teriffic form on stage. His Guitar playing is really sharp and he's doing songs that he hasn't done in a long time. The Celebration was great. I think the comment about Prince being Ramsis II or III is stupid as Hell cause he never thought he was anything but Prince the Musician. I don't think he ever LOST It. I think the albums just weren't PROMOTED Correctly. If he fixes this problem he will definitely sell. Also, he needs to make more videos available. Prince will prevail cause there is just so much SHIT Music out there today. And no matter what he puts out it's just so much better than the rest. He's he in the Forefront . He's just that Damn Good. Ain't a Damn person like Prince in the TALENT dept.

Supernova said:

Prince was asked a long time ago if he had regret about releasing some albums that didn't achieve a lot of success. He said
they served a purpose anyway and he never really was trying to make money...he had ...and had enough already.

origmnd said:

I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that Prince, like many people, won't admit to certain things publicly. But if you're referring to the fact that I said he wanted commercial success at a certain point, it's pretty obvious with an album like Rave, and even as far back as Diamonds and Pearls. And that's fine, it's his career. I just don't think things like that represent his musical essence. Prince says a lot of things.

origmnd said:

'I'm #1 at the bank'
'Does this sound like a hit?' to Anthony DeCurtis about 'The Greatest Romance Ever Sold'

Just one final note Ramses is a CONDOM.

langebleu said:

Operative: "IN EUROPE". It flopped in the US commercially. So I was right. Do you think the Black Album would've done better in the US? I do.



Which doesn't change what was very possibly a WB executive decision. I didn't say that the ENTIRE IDEA of Graffiti Bridge was concieved in one evening based on the sales of Batman. I said WB thought it was a financially realistic time to do the project.



"LIKE Ramses the II" it's PERCEPTION! It is someones PERCEPTION of what happened. NOT a news article that says "this is exactally what Prince was thinking and blah blah" I feel I was VERY CLEAR that this was a persons THEORY and nothing more. You can disagree, but for you to ASSume that I was projecting gospel or speaking some kind of literal truth doesn't make any sense.



oops, my bad. I got the order wrong. sorry.