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Gay Clubs Prefer Hip Hop to Dance Pop, Philadelphia Article Interesting read:
from the Philadelphia Gay News: Club DJs lament rise of hip-hop By Kevin Riordan PGN Contributing Writer © 2006 Kevin Riordan It’s got a beat, and you can dance to it. But the rising demand for hip-hop music from younger patrons of Philadelphia’s gay dance clubs has some of the community’s best-known DJs hoping to hear a new sound soon. “When I first started 10 years ago, I couldn’t do enough shows to keep up with all the [traditional] club hits,” said Ian Morrison, better known as entertainer Brittany Lynn. “Disco has always been a staple, but there’s been a major change. Now there’s a street-thug kind of element. It’s not happy gay disco music anymore.” As the anthemic, diva-driven vocal tunes and other danceable music genres long associated with gay life have faded from favor among newer clubgoers, hip-hop has become the sound most young whites, African-Americans, Latinos and Asians demand — at least in the city’s gay clubs and at events. And some spinners aren’t happy about it. “It’s disgusting to me,” said DJ Reenie Kane (who claimed, “I was spinning before it was classified as disco”). “The stuff I’m getting requests for is absolutely vulgar. It’s very dis- heartening.” Kane and others cite the misogynistic, even violent lyrics of some hip-hop hits, as well as often-sluggish tempos (“hip-hop is so slow anyone can dance to it,” said Eric Bachman, a k a DJ TeK-E), dead stops and other technical and/or artistic issues involved in spinning the predominantly hip-hop program young crowds crave. Young vs. old The music tends to divide the dance floor, as well; clubgoers in their late 20s and up tend to leave when 50 Cent comes on, and younger dancers don’t want to hear anything else. It seems at least part of the gay club audience, long perceived as possessed of “underground” taste, is embracing a form of music that has become utterly mainstream, despite its renegade origins. And there’s also irony in the fact that the traditional disco sound, created mostly by African Americans, was heartily embraced by gay clubs from the beginning, while hip-hop, equally a black artistic creation, is proving divisive — albeit more from a generational than racial standpoint. “It’s a touchy subject,” ac-knowledged Woody’s spinner Stephen Durkin. All this might seem of minimal significance in a brave new iPod, Web and satellite radio world of music options were it not for the vital role the upbeat, even celebratory atmosphere of dance clubs has long played in gay life — especially for those just coming out. Consider how events such as the regular dances at the Gay Liberation Front’s old firehouse headquarters in Manhattan became an essential institution in the emerging post-Stonewall gay community of the early ‘70s, and how the disco boom that defined much of the rest of that decade elevated the viability and visibility of gay social life, at least in big cities. Underground’ disco Early on, the soundtrack for gay (as well as straight) dancing was primarily Top 40 rock, pop and soul. But the codification and com-mercialization of the “underground” disco sound (4/4 beats, soulful vocals, substantial melodies and elongated song structures) was largely nurtured, and thoroughly beloved, in gay clubs. The fact that disco music was (rightly) perceived as gay music was one reason for the homophobia-infected “Disco Sucks” backlash, and also a reason why, after the purported death of disco in 1980, the sound continued to percolate in gay clubs, eventually re-emerging as house, techno, trance, tribal and their ever-evolving sub-genres. Gay clubs are our place, our place to feel free,” said Maria V. Volikas, who has DJ-ed at Shampoo and other Philadelphia establishments as Maria V. for many years. “The music bonds to that [freedom]. It’s anthemic. Gay music is something that brings us together.” Kane, known to many as Philadelphia’s “First Lady of the Turntables” (she started working when female DJs were virtually unknown) said that with some exceptions, she long avoided playing hip-hop tunes “unless I had to.” Now, she feels she has to: Her dance floors want to hear it. “It’s like a sleaze beat ... just a straight beat,” she said, noting that hip-hop songs often lack the melodies, soaring orchestration, breaks and other structural elements of traditional club music. Aggressive vocals Both Kane and Volikas said the harsh, even belligerent sensibility of some popular hip-hop tracks seems antithetical to the sort of uplifting, “we’re all in this together” party vibe traditionally favored by the gay club crowd. The fact that hip-hop’s spoken-word vocals are often aggressively (hetero) sexual is a stark contrast to the sound of female sirens singing romantic lyrics about men that has characterized the club music long preferred by the gay male crowd. And while a generational divide is clearly involved (“We’re getting older, and they’re getting younger,” Volikas noted wryly.), younger gay club DJs have similar concerns. During an e-mail exchange and a subsequent phone interview, Durkin — who’s been in the business for a decade — said gay club music “has lost its identity in recent years.” He noted that club divas such as Amber “are still creating music, but without much impact. Some have been dropped by major labels and have been forced to join smaller labels or have dropped out of the game completely. The days of shouting anthemic divas are numbered ... they are a thing of the past.” Meanwhile, hip-hop — which now dominates contemporary hit radio in the Philadelphia region, as well as in much of America — has unequivocally established itself as the soundtrack du jour among the young. “They like it because it’s a fad right now, and because they have no outlets [exposing] them to anything different,” Durkin explained, adding that radio station WIOQ-FM, a k a Q-102, “ is the kids’ main source of music exposure in Philly and surrounding areas ... it calls itself a dance station, but basically, it’s a hip-hop station.” Bachman, 27, spins at the 12th Air Command and elsewhere. He’s been working professionally for about eight years. “When I started, underground house, vocal house, and progressive trance were flooding the clubs,” he recalled. “Q-102 had the Club 102 show, and on Saturday nights from 2 to 6, they played nothing but underground house. And 97.5 [then WPST-FM’s dial position] also played it. Now, you have the radio just playing hip-hop.” Despite the increasing importance of the Web and satellite radio, Bachman said commercial FM broadcasting still shapes the taste of the mass audience. And right now, what the young Philadelphia gay club audience wants to hear is all hip-hop, all the time. “If I just play that,” Bachman said, “I might as well go back to being a wedding DJ.” Limited creativity Opportunities to be creative — to introduce new sounds and to orchestrate the mood of the crowd over the course of an evening — also are limited by the rhythmic uniformity and emotional monotony of many hip-hop songs, the spinners said. While traditional gay club music is surely no stranger to monotony, the variety of genres, the extravagant, often campy emotionalism of diva vocals, the higher number of beats per minute and the frequent melodic crescendoes facilitate an expressive connection between the DJ and the dancers. A mid-tempo night of, say, Nellie and his peers would be hard-pressed to achieve that, the DJs said. “You want to bring people into another world, to escape reality,” Volikas said. “I always look at myself as a circus leader in a past life.” But with most hip-hop, “you can’t feel anything in your heart,” she added. Ironically, she noted, the hip-hop songs that seem to appeal to the most clubgoers are those that feature samples or snippets of melody, often from past hits. “The kids really have no clue it’s recycled,” she said. Added Kane, “there are so many covers — and so many samples of good music in bad songs!” Musicality The popularity of a sound they don’t personally like puts DJs in a tricky position: They need to please their listeners (not to mention, their employers), and they need to make a living. They take pains to point out the musicality of hip-hop artists such as Kanye West; they don’t want to be seen as dissing an entire, vital genre of African-American music. But they also want to be more than human jukeboxes, playing hits for the kids night after night. “I play all kinds of music, although I don’t play the disgusting hard-core [hip-hop],” Volikas said. “I’ll play Missy Elliott, stuff with a good vibe and a good beat. Stuff that’s fun. “I’m not saying give up and be a sellout,” she added. “But I’ve played every room in Shampoo. I’m open-minded. Some people come in, and ask for the same song for six years, and I try to fit it in as best I can. Because that person needs that outlet more than I do, and I can give it to them. Their happiness is more important than my ego.” Both Durkin and Bachman say they sense the moment for hip-hop music in gay clubs may be peaking. “My No. 1 most-requested song at underage events is Madonna’s ‘Hung Up,’ which is also one of MTV’s ‘TRL’ videos of all time,” Durkin said. “ ‘TRL’s’ age demographic is under 20 years old. I think this is saying something.” Other styles of music do, indeed, move younger clubgoers. According to Volikas and Kane, current or recent songs by artists ranging from Gwen Stefani to the Black-Eyed Peas still fill dance floors, and veterans such as Andy Bell and New Order have tunes on the dance charts. Europe is still pumping out trance and dance pop, and the high-energy circuit party sound has not exactly gone silent, either. “I don’t wish, or think, that hip-hop will disappear,” Durkin said. “However, I think it will become right-sized and not so mainstream. “I am looking forward to what’s next.” Kevin Riordan is a New Jersey journalist. | |
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“Disco has always been a staple, but there’s been a major change. Now there’s a street-thug kind of element. It’s not happy gay disco music anymore.”
Exactly. Disco has always lived in the gay clubs in some sort of shape or form until recently. Now, gay clubs are becoming just as dead as straight clubs. Kane and others cite the misogynistic, even violent lyrics of some hip-hop hits, as well as often-sluggish tempos (“hip-hop is so slow anyone can dance to it,” said Eric Bachman, a k a DJ
TeK-E) Correction, it's too slow to dance to but I definately get his point. “It’s like a sleaze beat ... just a straight beat,” she said, noting that hip-hop songs often lack the melodies, soaring orchestration, breaks and other structural elements of traditional club music.
Exactly. During an e-mail exchange and a subsequent phone interview, Durkin — who’s been in the business for a decade — said gay club music “has lost its identity in recent years.” He noted that club divas such as Amber “are still creating music, but without much impact. Some have been dropped by major labels and have been forced to join smaller labels or have dropped out of the game completely. The days of shouting anthemic divas are numbered ... they are a thing of the past.”
It certainly has lost it's identity. You used to could go in a gay club and the music was totally different than what you would hear in a straight club. Gay people are losing their taste these days just like straight people. “They like it because it’s a fad right now, and because they have no outlets [exposing] them to anything different,”
Exactly. That's all they know because that's all that's been exposed to them in their lifetime. Hip hop has dominated for so long that they were actually born into a bullshit music scene that never changes. Durkin explained, adding that radio station WIOQ-FM, a k a Q-102, “ is the kids’ main source of music exposure in Philly and surrounding areas ... it calls itself a dance station, but basically, it’s a hip-hop station.”
Exactly. It's the same when you hear hip hop artists call their music funky. Hell, there's no funk in that music and there's certainly no dance in it. They don't know what funk or dance music is. “When I started, underground house, vocal house, and progressive trance were flooding the clubs,” he recalled. “Q-102 had the Club 102 show, and on Saturday nights from 2 to 6, they played nothing but underground house. And 97.5 [then WPST-FM’s dial position] also played it. Now, you have the radio just playing hip-hop.”
I've been saying that shit for years. Shit hop has taken over everything. Despite the increasing importance of the Web and satellite radio, Bachman said commercial FM broadcasting still shapes the taste of the mass audience. And right now, what the young Philadelphia gay club audience wants to hear is all hip-hop, all the time.
“If I just play that,” Bachman said, “I might as well go back to being a wedding DJ.”  I love this person. So true, so true.
Limited creativity Opportunities to be creative — to introduce new sounds and to orchestrate the mood of the crowd over the course of an evening — also are limited by the rhythmic uniformity and emotional monotony of many hip-hop songs, the spinners said. While traditional gay club music is surely no stranger to monotony, the variety of genres, the extravagant, often campy emotionalism of diva vocals, the higher number of beats per minute and the frequent melodic crescendoes facilitate an expressive connection between the DJ and the dancers. A mid-tempo night of, say, Nellie and his peers would be hard-pressed to achieve that, the DJs said.
As I have said all along, midtempo shit serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. It's too slow for the dance floor and too fast for the bedroom. The shit needs to go out of style but of course there are tons of dead asses who have never been exposed to anything better so that's all they know or want to know. “You want to bring people into another world, to escape reality,”
Exactly. That's what music is for. Ironically, she noted, the hip-hop songs that seem to appeal to the most clubgoers are those that feature samples or snippets of melody, often from past hits.
“The kids really have no clue it’s recycled,” she said. They will argue you down that the music is 100 percent original like they know what the hell they are talking about. “I am looking forward to what’s next.”
I don't think there's ever going to be anything next. This hip hop shit has dominated mainstream for years and I've noticed it slowly lurking it's way into gay clubs also. Once it's totally in and no other kind of music is being made, nothing else can ever come in. Gay people have always had taste but even they can't have their own style if they are only exposed to bullshit on a daily basis. . . [Edited 3/29/06 21:46pm] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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The clubs i go to tend do promodomate Dance. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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vainandy said: “Disco has always been a staple, but there’s been a major change. Now there’s a street-thug kind of element. It’s not happy gay disco music anymore.”
Exactly. Disco has always lived in the gay clubs in some sort of shape or form until recently. Now, gay clubs are becoming just as dead as straight clubs. They will argue you down that the music is 100 percent original like they know what the hell they are talking about. “I am looking forward to what’s next.”
I don't think there's ever going to be anything next. This hip hop shit has dominated mainstream for years and I've noticed it slowly lurking it's way into gay clubs also. Once it's totally in and no other kind of music is being made, nothing else can ever come in. Gay people have always had taste but even they can't have their own style if they are only exposed to bullshit on a daily basis. . Classic commentary. | |
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perfect timing..just yesterday i was listening to lil louis:
"they used to laugh at me..but i see the future...record store recessions...dance floor boredome...dj's spinning the same song after song... they used to laugh at me..but i see the future..." that was from 1992...  Space for sale... | |
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I can see why people might be getting tired of dance music, since it's become kind of redundant and boring in recent years. But it's a bit odd the would gravitate towards hiphop considering it's even more mainstream and overplayed these days.
I used to get into all the Ministry of Sound complilations and such, but the last few I listened to all sounded the same. Practically every track is some teenage girl moaning out pointless lyrics over some cold, sterile, trance music. Then they throw in a few silly covers of 80's songs, and call it a day. | |
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it hasn't hit chicago yet, because the clubs here are still playing the same hi-nrg diva house techno shit that they've been playing for the last 15 years.
and i mean that in a way that is of course supportive of my community.  | |
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I wouldn't mind if the DJ's started slowing things down a bit and bring back funk or soul influences into their mixes, some of that hyper techno stuff was getting ridiculous. I swear, if I saw another x'ed up kid with glitter smeared all over his face, hair spiked up with way too much gel, and a glowstick hanging out of his mouth, doing jumping jacks on the dancefloor, I wanted to strangle him. | |
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Anx said: it hasn't hit chicago yet, because the clubs here are still playing the same hi-nrg diva house techno shit that they've been playing for the last 15 years.
and i mean that in a way that is of course supportive of my community. Btw did u get "the factory Pt.1" yet?  [Edited 3/30/06 7:35am] | |
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Tom said:
I wouldn't mind if the DJ's started slowing things down a bit and bring back funk or soul influences into their mixes, some of that hyper techno stuff was getting ridiculous. Exactly. That's the word I've been looking for..."hyper". It's overly hyper to the point that you would have to be high out of your skull to dance to it. I'd like to see some more dance music that's funky like in the early 1990s such as Black Box or M People. They need to bring back those funky organs also. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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Has anyone heard any of Dr. Fink's "Ultrasound" album? There are two tracks on there, the title track "Ultrasound" and "Almost Funky" that would be perfect for gay clubs.
. . [Edited 3/30/06 7:58am] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Tom said:
I wouldn't mind if the DJ's started slowing things down a bit and bring back funk or soul influences into their mixes, some of that hyper techno stuff was getting ridiculous. Exactly. That's the word I've been looking for..."hyper". It's overly hyper to the point that you would have to be high out of your skull to dance to it. I'd like to see some more dance music that's funky like in the early 1990s such as Black Box or M People. They need to bring back those funky organs also. i call it munchkin music. it sounds like it's being sped up to chipmunk speed, like playing a 33 1/3rpm album at 78rpm. | |
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hey vainandy,
so are there new generation barbara tuckers or joy cardwells and if not what has replaced them? Space for sale... | |
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Anx said: vainandy said: Exactly. That's the word I've been looking for..."hyper". It's overly hyper to the point that you would have to be high out of your skull to dance to it. I'd like to see some more dance music that's funky like in the early 1990s such as Black Box or M People. They need to bring back those funky organs also. i call it munchkin music. it sounds like it's being sped up to chipmunk speed, like playing a 33 1/3rpm album at 78rpm.  I thought I was the only one that remembers turntables with a 78 rpm speed.Andy is a four letter word. | |
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sosgemini said: hey vainandy,
so are there new generation barbara tuckers or joy cardwells and if not what has replaced them? The name "Barbara Tucker" sounds very familar but I can't quite place who she is. I don't think I've heard of Joy Cardwell. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: I thought I was the only one that remembers turntables with a 78 rpm speed.at least i'm not senile enough yet that i can still remember them. | |
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vainandy said: The name "Barbara Tucker" sounds very familar but I can't quite place who she is. I don't think I've heard of Joy Cardwell. 
http://www.barbaratucker.com/index.html http://www.joicardwell.com/ ahhh..and its joi..not joy... they were huge in the early nineties..along with ultra nate, india and dajae.. Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: vainandy said: The name "Barbara Tucker" sounds very familar but I can't quite place who she is. I don't think I've heard of Joy Cardwell.
http://www.barbaratucker.com/index.html http://www.joicardwell.com/ ahhh..and its joi..not joy... they were huge in the early nineties..along with ultra nate, india and dajae.. another mix is due..... gettin on it now | |
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Tom said: I can see why people might be getting tired of dance music, since it's become kind of redundant and boring in recent years.
Hi-NRG is not my cup of tea. But I WILL say -- as a dance music fan -- that the entire gay progressive scene has been pedestrian since '98. It's too formulaic: big churchy vocal, buildup/fade out. That kind of thing gets really repetitive in a nightlong set. I can see why its gotten old hat. But it's a bit odd the would gravitate towards hiphop considering it's even more mainstream and overplayed these days.
Kids wanna fit in. Moreso now than ever; and the interesting thing is, they can. Times have changed. Gay kids don't really have to escape into the world of the disco for acceptance. You can actually be OUT in middle school nowadays! You've got the internet, etc. There's no need to really throw yourself or seek refuge in the gay ghetto element of the scene like it was back in the early '90s, '80s and before. You can actually be gay today and not have to ever step foot in a disco. And that's actually good for a lot of people (in an non-musical way). So I can see why a lot of younger gays have wholeheartedly embraced commercial, industry music. Still keep in mind KIDS WANNA FIT IN. Mostly, when dance and hip hop first made waves they were antiestablishment -- they were the voices of a culture. However, when the doors of acceptance broke down and capitalism came in, the mainstreaming of both cultures made them lose their edge. With rap becoming the new "pop" AND the gay experience being out of the closet -- Will & Grace, Queer Eye, reality shows, etc. These paycheck/pension gay DJs really need to reinvent their sound anyway! J.Vasquez, P.Rauhofer and the like are not making anything innovative at the mo' (for one). Love me some dance, but this is a true wake up call for the scene. "Muscle queens" and older club cats are in middle age now. One thing I've noticed people haven't touched on is the Mammonism in the gay community. Gay clubs are just like straight clubs, they're looking out for the bottom line. You can't keep a club open nowadays in mainstream America without throwing some rap in the mix. The kids who buy drinks nowadays want Beyoncé 'n' 'em NOT Martha Wash and Pepper Mashay (kids under 21 don't identify with Martha Wash or Madonna anymore, they missed the essence of what all that was about in the first place). Promoters need to be called out, too. The scene got lazy because the promoters made the kids lazy (vice versa). | |
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I don't care to hear trance remixes of Kelly Clarkson, thanks. | |
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CinisterCee said: I don't care to hear trance remixes of Kelly Clarkson, thanks.
oh god, is that whats going on? i blame madge for this.....
i remember getting in a fight with folks because i said i would never go to a dive that played remixed madge (or anything from her)....good house music is created from scratch..sure you have some whitelabel remixes that work it (sade's pearls comes to mind) but for the most part, remixes of pop songs suck donkey's balls... Space for sale... | |
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CinisterCee said: I don't care to hear trance remixes of Kelly Clarkson, thanks.
Exactly. And what the hell is up with Cascada "Everytime We Touch" and America constantly hanging on to this Hi-NRG garbagé? No one wants to hear that 20-million-beats-a-minute sh*t. Like somebody said earlier, you gotta be HIGH out of your mind to dance to that. And that's mostly the straight scene fault, not the gay one for hanging on to that kind of stuff. Rave and glowstick beats have BEEN played out, and you'll seldom hear that crap outside of North America. But North American dance is sooo behind, you still have heads *attempting* to dance to this type of sh*t!  | |
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JANFAN4L said: Tom said: I can see why people might be getting tired of dance music, since it's become kind of redundant and boring in recent years.
Hi-NRG is not my cup of tea. But I WILL say -- as a dance music fan -- that the entire gay progressive scene has been pedestrian since '98. It's too formulaic: big churchy vocal, buildup/fade out. That kind of thing gets really repetitive in a nightlong set. I can see why its gotten old hat. But it's a bit odd the would gravitate towards hiphop considering it's even more mainstream and overplayed these days.
Kids wanna fit in. Moreso now than ever; and the interesting thing is, they can. Times have changed. Gay kids don't really have to escape into the world of the disco for acceptance. You can actually be OUT in middle school nowadays! You've got the internet, etc. There's no need to really throw yourself or seek refuge in the gay ghetto element of the scene like it was back in the early '90s, '80s and before. You can actually be gay today and not have to ever step foot in a disco. And that's actually good for a lot of people (in an non-musical way). So I can see why a lot of younger gays have wholeheartedly embraced commercial, industry music. Still keep in mind KIDS WANNA FIT IN. Mostly, when dance and hip hop first made waves they were antiestablishment -- they were the voices of a culture. However, when the doors of acceptance broke down and capitalism came in, the mainstreaming of both cultures made them lose their edge. With rap becoming the new "pop" AND the gay experience being out of the closet -- Will & Grace, Queer Eye, reality shows, etc. These paycheck/pension gay DJs really need to reinvent their sound anyway! J.Vasquez, P.Rauhofer and the like are not making anything innovative at the mo' (for one). Love me some dance, but this is a true wake up call for the scene. "Muscle queens" and older club cats are in middle age now. One thing I've noticed people haven't touched on is the Mammonism in the gay community. Gay clubs are just like straight clubs, they're looking out for the bottom line. You can't keep a club open nowadays in mainstream America without throwing some rap in the mix. The kids who buy drinks nowadays want Beyoncé 'n' 'em NOT Martha Wash and Pepper Mashay (kids under 21 don't identify with Martha Wash or Madonna anymore, they missed the essence of what all that was about in the first place). Promoters need to be called out, too. The scene got lazy because the promoters made the kids lazy (vice versa). i think this brings up an even larger problem i've been noticing in smaller gay cities where people have confused acceptence with assimlation. we are starting to lose gay culture and gayborhoods. it's very scary to think in a few years some cities won't have either one of those anymore. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis | |
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ehuffnsd said: JANFAN4L said: Kids wanna fit in. Moreso now than ever; and the interesting thing is, they can. Times have changed. Gay kids don't really have to escape into the world of the disco for acceptance. You can actually be OUT in middle school nowadays! You've got the internet, etc. There's no need to really throw yourself or seek refuge in the gay ghetto element of the scene like it was back in the early '90s, '80s and before. You can actually be gay today and not have to ever step foot in a disco. And that's actually good for a lot of people (in an non-musical way). So I can see why a lot of younger gays have wholeheartedly embraced commercial, industry music. Still keep in mind KIDS WANNA FIT IN. Mostly, when dance and hip hop first made waves they were antiestablishment -- they were the voices of a culture. However, when the doors of acceptance broke down and capitalism came in, the mainstreaming of both cultures made them lose their edge. With rap becoming the new "pop" AND the gay experience being out of the closet -- Will & Grace, Queer Eye, reality shows, etc. These paycheck/pension gay DJs really need to reinvent their sound anyway! J.Vasquez, P.Rauhofer and the like are not making anything innovative at the mo' (for one). Love me some dance, but this is a true wake up call for the scene. "Muscle queens" and older club cats are in middle age now. One thing I've noticed people haven't touched on is the Mammonism in the gay community. Gay clubs are just like straight clubs, they're looking out for the bottom line. You can't keep a club open nowadays in mainstream America without throwing some rap in the mix. The kids who buy drinks nowadays want Beyoncé 'n' 'em NOT Martha Wash and Pepper Mashay (kids under 21 don't identify with Martha Wash or Madonna anymore, they missed the essence of what all that was about in the first place). Promoters need to be called out, too. The scene got lazy because the promoters made the kids lazy (vice versa). i think this brings up an even larger problem i've been noticing in smaller gay cities where people have confused acceptence with assimlation. we are starting to lose gay culture and gayborhoods. it's very scary to think in a few years some cities won't have either one of those anymore. true. here in chicago, boystown has been taken over by the stroller brigade. not that i'm against my straight neighbors or the fact that they're having kids, but it's just kinda sad to see a neighborhood with so much history fading into the background so little skylar and sophie will have more cafes at which to demand cookies from mommy. not that i'm bitter.
on the happy side, the chicago gay community center IS happening...they're building it as we speak...and it's right in the heart of the 'hood!  | |
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Anx said: ehuffnsd said: i think this brings up an even larger problem i've been noticing in smaller gay cities where people have confused acceptence with assimlation. we are starting to lose gay culture and gayborhoods. it's very scary to think in a few years some cities won't have either one of those anymore. true. here in chicago, boystown has been taken over by the stroller brigade. not that i'm against my straight neighbors or the fact that they're having kids, but it's just kinda sad to see a neighborhood with so much history fading into the background so little skylar and sophie will have more cafes at which to demand cookies from mommy. not that i'm bitter.
on the happy side, the chicago gay community center IS happening...they're building it as we speak...and it's right in the heart of the 'hood! congrats on the center here in SD, families are bringing kids to sunday champagne brunch at Hamburger Mary's. it's totally crazy. You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
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sosgemini said: vainandy said: The name "Barbara Tucker" sounds very familar but I can't quite place who she is. I don't think I've heard of Joy Cardwell.
http://www.barbaratucker.com/index.html http://www.joicardwell.com/ ahhh..and its joi..not joy... they were huge in the early nineties..along with ultra nate, india and dajae.. I might have possibly heard some of Barbara Tucker's music. Since most of this type of music was never played on the radio so the only place I heard it was in the gay clubs. The DJs strictly mixed and never spoke except for "last call for beer....this is your last call for beer". Extremely popular song titles and artists got around strictly by word of mouth in the club and among gay friends.
I listened to some of Barbara Tucker's samples from her latest or upcoming album. (Surprising, the computer at work didn't have the site blocked). The voice sounds familiar and the tempo and style of the songs sounds like something the DJs in the clubs in my area were into. I checked the Tower Records site and searched for her name. Of course, a lot of compilations came up and I didn't recognize any of the song titles except for one...."Hot Shot" which I think I have on a compilation at home somewhere if it's the same one I'm thinking about. I couldn't click on the sound samples on that site because those players are blocked here at work. My computer at home died on me about a month ago.  Andy is a four letter word. | |
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ehuffnsd said: JANFAN4L said: Kids wanna fit in. Moreso now than ever; and the interesting thing is, they can. Times have changed. Gay kids don't really have to escape into the world of the disco for acceptance. You can actually be OUT in middle school nowadays! You've got the internet, etc. There's no need to really throw yourself or seek refuge in the gay ghetto element of the scene like it was back in the early '90s, '80s and before. You can actually be gay today and not have to ever step foot in a disco. And that's actually good for a lot of people (in an non-musical way). So I can see why a lot of younger gays have wholeheartedly embraced commercial, industry music. Still keep in mind KIDS WANNA FIT IN. Mostly, when dance and hip hop first made waves they were antiestablishment -- they were the voices of a culture. However, when the doors of acceptance broke down and capitalism came in, the mainstreaming of both cultures made them lose their edge. With rap becoming the new "pop" AND the gay experience being out of the closet -- Will & Grace, Queer Eye, reality shows, etc. These paycheck/pension gay DJs really need to reinvent their sound anyway! J.Vasquez, P.Rauhofer and the like are not making anything innovative at the mo' (for one). Love me some dance, but this is a true wake up call for the scene. "Muscle queens" and older club cats are in middle age now. One thing I've noticed people haven't touched on is the Mammonism in the gay community. Gay clubs are just like straight clubs, they're looking out for the bottom line. You can't keep a club open nowadays in mainstream America without throwing some rap in the mix. The kids who buy drinks nowadays want Beyoncé 'n' 'em NOT Martha Wash and Pepper Mashay (kids under 21 don't identify with Martha Wash or Madonna anymore, they missed the essence of what all that was about in the first place). Promoters need to be called out, too. The scene got lazy because the promoters made the kids lazy (vice versa). i think this brings up an even larger problem i've been noticing in smaller gay cities where people have confused acceptence with assimlation. we are starting to lose gay culture and gayborhoods. it's very scary to think in a few years some cities won't have either one of those anymore. Where I live, they're shutting them down just because the owners of the buildings doesn't want "that kind of bar" in his location. It's been alot of BS lately. There's actually a stupid, obscure law in the books in Youngstown where it's illegal to impersonate a female after I believe 11pm or 12pm. They also tried to stop all the drag shows and stripper shows, because of some technicality that the stage has to be a certain height off the floor away from the crowd. And that you werent allowed to touch the performers directly, you had to leave the tip in a bowl by the stage. One bar actually had to put a cage around the stage, and close it when there was a show, to get them off their backs. It was the stupidest thing considering you can go to the local titty bars and see complete female nudity, and play with them, lather them up with soap suds, have them lift dollar bills off your face with their crotch, etc... and noone seems to mind that. | |
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Anx said:
true. here in chicago, boystown has been taken over by the stroller brigade. not that i'm against my straight neighbors or the fact that they're having kids, but it's just kinda sad to see a neighborhood with so much history fading into the background so little skylar and sophie will have more cafes at which to demand cookies from mommy. not that i'm bitter.
on the happy side, the chicago gay community center IS happening...they're building it as we speak...and it's right in the heart of the 'hood! An actual gay section of town? I have got to get the hell out of The South. I have a friend that used to live in Chicago and he said they have a gay pride week or something up there. It's usually around this time of year when he starts talking about it. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: Anx said:
true. here in chicago, boystown has been taken over by the stroller brigade. not that i'm against my straight neighbors or the fact that they're having kids, but it's just kinda sad to see a neighborhood with so much history fading into the background so little skylar and sophie will have more cafes at which to demand cookies from mommy. not that i'm bitter.
on the happy side, the chicago gay community center IS happening...they're building it as we speak...and it's right in the heart of the 'hood! An actual gay section of town? I have got to get the hell out of The South. I have a friend that used to live in Chicago and he said they have a gay pride week or something up there. It's usually around this time of year when he starts talking about it. That reminds me of that episode of 'The Simpsons' when Homer wandered into the gay part of Springfield accidentally. Naturally, Smithers lived there. | |
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vainandy said: Anx said:
true. here in chicago, boystown has been taken over by the stroller brigade. not that i'm against my straight neighbors or the fact that they're having kids, but it's just kinda sad to see a neighborhood with so much history fading into the background so little skylar and sophie will have more cafes at which to demand cookies from mommy. not that i'm bitter.
on the happy side, the chicago gay community center IS happening...they're building it as we speak...and it's right in the heart of the 'hood! An actual gay section of town? I have got to get the hell out of The South. I have a friend that used to live in Chicago and he said they have a gay pride week or something up there. It's usually around this time of year when he starts talking about it. yup. end of june, actually. the parade's pretty fun. | |
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