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When did mainstream music start suffering? It's true: Music itself never really died. There still is quality music out there.. you just have to look for it. But, once upon a time, you didn't have to look for good music.. it was already there. Mainstream music from way back.. the '50s, the '60s, some of the '70s, and even before then... look at how most of that stuff has become classic and is beloved to this day.
And then we have TODAY'S mainstream music scene. 
Some will argue that this period isn't even where the shit started flying. While I would NEVER make the argument that music was once completely shit-free, I DO believe, along with countless others, that we HAVE been on a steady decline for some time now. So, in your opinion, when did the decline begin? [Edited 3/14/06 13:47pm] | |
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"I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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Mainstream music has always suffered from its fair share of shit. I don't care how revered the 60s are, but there was plenty o' shit to go around in that decade. Feel free to join in the Prince Album Poll 2018! Let'a celebrate his legacy by counting down the most beloved Prince albums, as decided by you! | |
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it started with Debbie Gibson & Alanis Morisette during her dance pop days "Americans consume the most fast food than any nation on Earth and the stupid motherfuckers wonder why they are so fat? " - Oprah Winfrey | |
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There is horrible shit in every decade.
And if you're talking about when did RADIO start sucking... well that was around `82. | |
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When was it that airplay first became the major factor in the Billboard 100? | |
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CinisterCee said: And if you're talking about when did RADIO start sucking... well that was around `82.
I think that's probably more along the lines of what I'm talking about.  | |
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squiddyren said: It's true: Music itself never really died. There still is quality music out there.. you just have to look for it. But, once upon a time, you didn't have to look for good music.. it was already there. Mainstream music from way back.. the '50s, the '60s, some of the '70s, and even before then... look at how most of that stuff has become classic and is beloved to this day.
And then we have TODAY'S mainstream music scene.
Some will argue that this period isn't even where the shit started flying. While I would NEVER make the argument that music was once completely shit-free, I DO believe, along with countless others, that we HAVE been on a steady decline for some time now. So, in your opinion, when did the decline begin? [Edited 3/14/06 13:47pm] When sampling became a way of life. | |
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I think mainstream msuic began it's decline in the late 80s.That's when alot of crap started to take over.1983 and 1984 are probably the last truly amazing years for pop music. | |
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DavidEye said: I think mainstream msuic began it's decline in the late 80s.That's when alot of crap started to take over.1983 and 1984 are probably the last truly amazing years for pop music. Exactly. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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there's a lot of fun mainstream music. it may not be your cuppa but its fun.
very generation eventually says something like, "music ain't what it used to be." my parents say it now and their parents said it before them. it ain't the music, my friend. its probably us. | |
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sallysassalot said:
very generation eventually says something like, "music ain't what it used to be." my parents say it now and their parents said it before them. it ain't the music, my friend. its probably us. Not really. My mother grew up as a child in the 1950s and a teenager in the 1960s with stuff like Motown, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, etc. I never heard her complain about the state of music during the 1970s and 1980s. She partied in clubs every night. Hell, practically the only time I saw her was the next morning before school.  None of my friends' parents were complaining either. They were partying also. They were in their 30s during that time which is the same age I am now and I see today's music as absolutely horrible and know countless people my age that feel the same way.
The only people I heard complaining in the 1980s were much older people (senior citizens) who were around before the rock and roll era ever began. Their reasons were because they saw it as "the devil's music". They weren't judging it strictly on "sound" like people complain about music today. . . [Edited 3/15/06 1:13am] Andy is a four letter word. | |
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vainandy said: sallysassalot said:
very generation eventually says something like, "music ain't what it used to be." my parents say it now and their parents said it before them. it ain't the music, my friend. its probably us. Not really. My mother grew up as a child in the 1950s and a teenager in the 1960s with stuff like Motown, The Beatles, Elvis Presley, Chuck Berry, etc. I never heard her complain about the state of music during the 1970s and 1980s. She partied in clubs every night. Hell, practically the only time I saw her was the next morning before school. None of my friends' parents were complaining either. They were partying also. They were in their 30s during that time which is the same age I am now and I see today's music as absolutely horrible and know countless people my age that feel the same way.
The only people I heard complaining in the 1980s were much older people (senior citizens) who were around before the rock and roll era ever began. Their reasons were because they saw it as "the devil's music". They weren't judging it strictly on "sound" like people complain about music today. . . [Edited 3/15/06 1:13am] I want to hang out with your mom back then.  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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sallysassalot said: Every generation eventually says something like, "music ain't what it used to be." my parents say it now and their parents said it before them. it ain't the music, my friend. its probably us.
No,it's the music
This is one reason why the music business is in such disarray right now.Much of today's music is disposable and people just aren't buying records the way they used to. | |
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Maybe it started "suffering" when you stopped liking it. | |
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scorp84 said: Maybe it started "suffering" when you stopped liking it.
I think a big part of it started when all of the big corporations started buying up the smaller labels and a lot of the creativity dried up. There used to be tons of smaller lables but where are they today? Not to mention the impact of hiphop. Most of the hiphop generation of musicians could not PLAY an instrument if it killed them. I know there are exceptions to that but in general it's true. Just my 2 cents. | |
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...
This has been posted before, since this keeps coming up, but this has been my two cents: * True, the Industry has never inspired creativity, but you used to need talent. Image has always sold records, but since the mid'80's, Image has gradually become The most important thing. Talent is, at best, an afterthought now. I agree with Davideye --in the 80's with the advent of video, image slowly began to to take over the need for talent. as Quincy Jones once pointed out , when there was just records and radio, a singer could come to the studio with rollers in her hair--it didn't matter what you looked like--as long as you could sing * Members of groups like Earth Wind and Fire have pointed out that years ago, a label would sign an artist or group, have them tour and hone their craft and gradually build an audience of loyal fans, and create a base that would support an act over the years. The companies then weren't expecting you to necessarily be an immediate Smash hit out of the gate--they wanted it to build over time. Now you get a one or two album deal, and if you don't make it big, you're out the door... The Corporations know now that the best way for them to make money is to just put an act out there, hype them with plenty of media exposure and Clear Channel airplay, pimp'em for a couple of years, and when that hype dies down, bring in someone new and start it all over again. It's more cost-effective for them. The music suffers in the long run, but they get their money. as Prince has pointed out, the heads of these companies now don't have to know anything about music. They come from accounting, law and business backgrounds... * Despite loud, showy protest about industry "payola", companies like Clear Channel make sure that some kind of payola is the norm --and only labels that "play ball" will get any airplay for their"artists".... *Producer/ writers/arrangers of decades past-- Quincy, Arif Mardin, Burt Bacharach, Charles Stepney Thom Bell, Norman Whitfield, et al, -- came up learning Classical, Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Rock, Pop, Country, etc.. they had to learn all of it, along with Composition, Music theory, arranging, writing charts, etc. A producer today is anyone who can put some beats and samples together.... That's certainly not saying that there isn't creativity now. Hip Hop has plenty of creativity, but the most creative ones aren't the ones selling big numbers. Artists like The Roots and Mos Def have the respect, but they aren't the ones selling the Multi-Platinum records right now...unfortunately, it's people like the Black Eyed Peas and Lil' John that will sell more....Companies know that you can never go wrong by appealing to the lowest common denominator--the lowest expectations. The records that celebrate thug life, Ho's, partying, gettin paid, are the ones that sell --the companies bottom lined it--- decided if that's what kids buy, why do they need to push anything else? ...and it's because the industry also knows that your average person really just doesn't give a shit about music. The people that are really passionate about music--people that are on Music sites like the Org--- are quite a minority compared to the average person, who just wants something to dance to, something to drive to, or something to put in the background and ignore.... They may vaguely be aware that music doesn't resonate quite like it used to, but they're not sure why... ... [Edited 3/16/06 10:51am] " I've got six things on my mind --you're no longer one of them." - Paddy McAloon, Prefab Sprout | |
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minneapolisgenius said: Thats. Just. Pure. Evil.  It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.
- Lammastide | |
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paligap said: ...
This has been posted before, since this keeps coming up, but this has been my two cents: * True, the Industry has never inspired creativity, but you used to need talent. Image has always sold records, but since the mid'80's, Image has gradually become The most important thing. Talent is, at best, an afterthought now. I agree with Davideye --in the 80's with the advent of video, image slowly began to to take over the need for talent. as Quincy Jones once pointed out , when there was just records and radio, a singer could come to the studio with rollers in her hair--it didn't matter what you looked like--as long as you could sing * Members of groups like Earth Wind and Fire have pointed out that years ago, a label would sign an artist or group, have them tour and hone their craft and gradually build an audience of loyal fans, and create a base that would support an act over the years. The companies then weren't expecting you to necessarily be an immediate Smash hit out of the gate--they wanted it to build over time. Now you get a one or two album deal, and if you don't make it big, you're out the door... The Corporations know now that the best way for them to make money is to just put an act out there, hype them with plenty of media exposure and Clear Channel airplay, pimp'em for a couple of years, and when that hype dies down, bring in someone new and start it all over again. It's more cost-effective for them. The music suffers in the long run, but they get their money. as Prince has pointed out, the heads of these companies now don't have to know anything about music. They come from accounting, law and business backgrounds... * Despite loud, showy protest about industry "payola", companies like Clear Channel make sure that some kind of payola is the norm --and only labels that "play ball" will get any airplay for their"artists".... *Producer/ writers/arrangers of decades past-- Quincy, Arif Mardin, Burt Bacharach, Charles Stepney Thom Bell, Norman Whitfield, et al, -- came up learning Classical, Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Rock, Pop, Country, etc.. they had to learn all of it, along with Composition, Music theory, arranging, writing charts, etc. A producer today is anyone who can put some beats and samples together.... That's certainly not saying that there isn't creativity now. Hip Hop has plenty of creativity, but the most creative ones aren't the ones selling big numbers. Artists like The Roots and Mos Def have the respect, but they aren't the ones selling the Multi-Platinum records right now...unfortunately, it's people like the Black Eyed Peas and Lil' John that will sell more....Companies know that you can never go wrong by appealing to the lowest common denominator--the lowest expectations. The records that celebrate thug life, Ho's, partying, gettin paid, are the ones that sell --the companies bottom lined it--- decided if that's what kids buy, why do they need to push anything else? ...and it's because the industry also knows that your average person really just doesn't give a shit about music. The people that are really passionate about music--people that are on Music sites like the Org--- are quite a minority compared to the average person, who just wants something to dance to, something to drive to, or something to put in the background and ignore.... They may vaguely be aware that music doesn't resonate quite like it used to, but they're not sure why... ... These are really good points. Sorta sad too. Been gone for a minute, now I'm back with the jump off | |
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paligap said: ...
This has been posted before, since this keeps coming up, but this has been my two cents: * True, the Industry has never inspired creativity, but you used to need talent. Image has always sold records, but since the mid'80's, Image has gradually become The most important thing. Talent is, at best, an afterthought now. I agree with Davideye --in the 80's with the advent of video, image slowly began to to take over the need for talent. as Quincy Jones once pointed out , when there was just records and radio, a singer could come to the studio with rollers in her hair--it didn't matter what you looked like--as long as you could sing * Members of groups like Earth Wind and Fire have pointed out that years ago, a label would sign an artist or group, have them tour and hone their craft and gradually build an audience of loyal fans, and create a base that would support an act over the years. The companies then weren't expecting you to necessarily be an immediate Smash hit out of the gate--they wanted it to build over time. Now you get a one or two album deal, and if you don't make it big, you're out the door... The Corporations know now that the best way for them to make money is to just put an act out there, hype them with plenty of media exposure and Clear Channel airplay, pimp'em for a couple of years, and when that hype dies down, bring in someone new and start it all over again. It's more cost-effective for them. The music suffers in the long run, but they get their money. as Prince has pointed out, the heads of these companies now don't have to know anything about music. They come from accounting, law and business backgrounds... * Despite loud, showy protest about industry "payola", companies like Clear Channel make sure that some kind of payola is the norm --and only labels that "play ball" will get any airplay for their"artists".... *Producer/ writers/arrangers of decades past-- Quincy, Arif Mardin, Burt Bacharach, Charles Stepney Thom Bell, Norman Whitfield, et al, -- came up learning Classical, Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Rock, Pop, Country, etc.. they had to learn all of it, along with Composition, Music theory, arranging, writing charts, etc. A producer today is anyone who can put some beats and samples together.... That's certainly not saying that there isn't creativity now. Hip Hop has plenty of creativity, but the most creative ones aren't the ones selling big numbers. Artists like The Roots and Mos Def have the respect, but they aren't the ones selling the Multi-Platinum records right now...unfortunately, it's people like the Black Eyed Peas and Lil' John that will sell more....Companies know that you can never go wrong by appealing to the lowest common denominator--the lowest expectations. The records that celebrate thug life, Ho's, partying, gettin paid, are the ones that sell --the companies bottom lined it--- decided if that's what kids buy, why do they need to push anything else? ...and it's because the industry also knows that your average person really just doesn't give a shit about music. The people that are really passionate about music--people that are on Music sites like the Org--- are quite a minority compared to the average person, who just wants something to dance to, something to drive to, or something to put in the background and ignore.... They may vaguely be aware that music doesn't resonate quite like it used to, but they're not sure why... ... 100% true. | |
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FuNkeNsteiN said: minneapolisgenius said: Thats. Just. Pure. Evil.  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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minneapolisgenius said: I want to hang out with your mom back then.
Or you could just hang out with me... 
tA  Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: minneapolisgenius said: I want to hang out with your mom back then.
Or you could just hang out with me...
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 I could. 
So when's the next opening in that busy schedule of yours then?  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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minneapolisgenius said: I could.
So when's the next opening in that busy schedule of yours then? Meet me... 
...next weekend. 
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: minneapolisgenius said: I could.
So when's the next opening in that busy schedule of yours then? Meet me...
...next weekend.
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 You suck. I'm going to be there in June most likely.
And next weekend I'll be in Argentina, so it's a bit far I think.  "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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minneapolisgenius said: You suck. I'm going to be there in June most likely.
And next weekend I'll be in Argentina, so it's a bit far I think. Sounds like a job for a... 
...a major mind-meld.
And btw, don't think I forgot that you're supposed to be sucking me first (the "Punk" thread)! 
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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theAudience said: minneapolisgenius said: You suck. I'm going to be there in June most likely.
And next weekend I'll be in Argentina, so it's a bit far I think. Sounds like a job for a...
...a major mind-meld.
And btw, don't think I forgot that you're supposed to be sucking me first(the "Punk" thread)!
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 
No comment. 
"I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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paligap said: ...
This has been posted before, since this keeps coming up, but this has been my two cents: * True, the Industry has never inspired creativity, but you used to need talent. Image has always sold records, but since the mid'80's, Image has gradually become The most important thing. Talent is, at best, an afterthought now. I agree with Davideye --in the 80's with the advent of video, image slowly began to to take over the need for talent. as Quincy Jones once pointed out , when there was just records and radio, a singer could come to the studio with rollers in her hair--it didn't matter what you looked like--as long as you could sing * Members of groups like Earth Wind and Fire have pointed out that years ago, a label would sign an artist or group, have them tour and hone their craft and gradually build an audience of loyal fans, and create a base that would support an act over the years. The companies then weren't expecting you to necessarily be an immediate Smash hit out of the gate--they wanted it to build over time. Now you get a one or two album deal, and if you don't make it big, you're out the door... The Corporations know now that the best way for them to make money is to just put an act out there, hype them with plenty of media exposure and Clear Channel airplay, pimp'em for a couple of years, and when that hype dies down, bring in someone new and start it all over again. It's more cost-effective for them. The music suffers in the long run, but they get their money. as Prince has pointed out, the heads of these companies now don't have to know anything about music. They come from accounting, law and business backgrounds... * Despite loud, showy protest about industry "payola", companies like Clear Channel make sure that some kind of payola is the norm --and only labels that "play ball" will get any airplay for their"artists".... *Producer/ writers/arrangers of decades past-- Quincy, Arif Mardin, Burt Bacharach, Charles Stepney Thom Bell, Norman Whitfield, et al, -- came up learning Classical, Jazz, Blues, Gospel, Rock, Pop, Country, etc.. they had to learn all of it, along with Composition, Music theory, arranging, writing charts, etc. A producer today is anyone who can put some beats and samples together.... That's certainly not saying that there isn't creativity now. Hip Hop has plenty of creativity, but the most creative ones aren't the ones selling big numbers. Artists like The Roots and Mos Def have the respect, but they aren't the ones selling the Multi-Platinum records right now...unfortunately, it's people like the Black Eyed Peas and Lil' John that will sell more....Companies know that you can never go wrong by appealing to the lowest common denominator--the lowest expectations. The records that celebrate thug life, Ho's, partying, gettin paid, are the ones that sell --the companies bottom lined it--- decided if that's what kids buy, why do they need to push anything else? ...and it's because the industry also knows that your average person really just doesn't give a shit about music. The people that are really passionate about music--people that are on Music sites like the Org--- are quite a minority compared to the average person, who just wants something to dance to, something to drive to, or something to put in the background and ignore.... They may vaguely be aware that music doesn't resonate quite like it used to, but they're not sure why... ... Preach on Brother Gap. You've got me set up for the collection plate.
tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431 "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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Since this spaw of the apokalipse appeareddd:
 | |
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Actually, I think a lot of people earmark one woman responsible for pushing her image to the forefront. We give this woman a lot of credit on the org, but not for making mainstream music suffer. | |
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