James Brown is nowhere near the cultural and musical icon that Michael Jackson is. Its true that JB is great entertainer and got their first but James Brown has never penetrated every culture throughout the world. No kid in the UK would be able to identify who JB is but they all know Michael Jackson, they know his music all the way back to Dont Stop til u Get Enough and further. Go ask some kid in Egypt who JB is and then ask them who MJ is, then go 2 japan and do the same.

I agree that JB`s fame cannot compared to that of MJ. No objection here. But his musical impact can be found everywhere in modern music, from Hip Hop to Soul to Funk to Country. And his dance steps can be found in every video you see on MTV. I would argue and go as far as claiming that James Brown is the most influential solo entertainer of the 21st century. The important issue is to point out that MJ is a pop artist while JB has always stuck to two genres. For that reason, his impact on pop culture is especially amazing. Don`t forget that James Brown is one of the few artists who can claim the credit for creating a new genre of music -- something MJ yet has to do. And if we look at chart success -- JB had more hits in the Top 10 than MJ, a fact that is often overlooked.
Fame isn't everything, bro. The Spice Girls are famous too.

The person above who says i shouldnt call myself FunkyBrotha if i dont see that JB is more of an icon is clearly just another tabloid influenced Jackson hater.

I don't hate MJ and I certainly don't pay attention to the tabloids. MJ is a good entertainer, a decent singer and dsefinetely an 80's icon. But he has not changed the course of music like James Brown did. And while I agree that James Brown's impact on culture as a whole is limited to the US, this impact was massive. JB was Soulbrother No 1, he was the musical icon of black pride and the civil rights movement, he was the firsr artist to integrate shows, own his productions, own radio stations, TV-networks, restaurant, his own fleet of jets. That`s black power! Essence magazine rightfully called him "the most important black man in America". And James Brown was the only black entertainer who truly scared the white government. Because if an artist can stop race riots (as JB did), he also has the power to start them.
Compared to that, Michael Jackson is a shallow pop artist.

I love JB, been to see him live, he rocks, he's a god of the black music scene, but he is NOT a worldwide ICON and he was surpassed by a lot of musicians of his time i.e. the beatles, the stones etc.

Laughable. Mick Jagger learned how to dance from James Brown. And after the desaster of the 1964 T.A.M.I. Show in Santa Monica, Mick insisted that JB never again would perform before the Stones, because he scared the shit out of them. The Beatles too were huge James Brown fans.

Also this crap about JB being the only reason MJ exists is ridiculous. Its true that they are both dancers and bust similar moves but to be honest the similarity ends there. There are hints of Brownisms in MJ's music but thats just musical development through the years, mj's stuff is much deeper than that, he's far more versatile and simply uses the past to enhance the future. James Brown "Earth Song" i dont think so. James Brown "Man in the Mirror" i dont think so.

[n]Lol .. I didn`t say that MJ is a JB-rip-off. But JB was and is MJ's main influence. When the J5 auditioned for Motown, they played JB's "I got the feeling" and Michael danced the "Popcorn". The Moonwalk is JB's Camelwalk - backwards. You can hear tons of JB-influences in "Off the wall". I agree that MJ later created his own sound - because he went pop. He wasn't a soul artist anymore (if he ever was one). But the question is ligid - where would Michael Jackson be today without the influence of James Brown? [/b]

On that note, anyone that says such and such wouldnt exist without such and such is misinformed about the ways of the world. Its like saying the moon wouldnt shine if it werent for Neil Armstrong or the 2nd world war wouldnt have happened without Hitler.

Sorry, this is quite silly, so I`m not gonna comment on that. To put James Brown before MJ is absolutely jsutified in a musical context because MJ's musical roots go back to James Brown. Whether you wanna hear it or not .. FunkyBrotha.

As for fame - there´s NOONE like MJ. Only Princess Diana could match him I´d say. The whole world knows who she was as well. Elvis, Beatles as well, but I think that only MJ is notoriously known for any reasons even to the young generation, which Elvis and Beatles might not already be.

of course he was, but it´s not MJ´s fault that James Brown was born first.

Don´t mistaken me though. I looooove James Brown. Visited his concert last year and he ROCKED!!!!! He was phenomenal!

Go and have a look at the Guiness Book of Records, its clearly states MJ is the most charitable human being, a position he took from Princess Diana when she tragically died.

I don't hate MJ and I certainly don't pay attention to the tabloids. MJ is a good entertainer, a decent singer and dsefinetely an 80's icon.

Where's MJ's innovation? Sure, "Thriller" was the 80s masterpiece, but it didn't change the way music was being played. "Papa's got a brand new bag" on the other hand changed how everybody at that time played and listened to music. It took music in a whole new direction ... most of today's musical culture was developed from that tune. Be it Disco, House and Hip Hop .. it goes back to the Funk.

MrSoulpower said:

Decent singer, hardly…….

He is a decent singer, but that's all credit I'm gonna give him. I can't feel MJ like I can feel JB, Otis, Marvin, Stevie, Jimmy Ruffin', etc. Sorry, but he's not up there with them. But that is, admitted, a matter of personal preference. Some things just can't be measured.

MrSoulpower said:

When people detract from MJ, not that you have, (but you're certainly not impressed) they always toss in Quincy, motown, the musicians behind him.

I've yet seen you mention Bootsy Collins or Bobby Byrd. wonder why? you gonna tell me James innovated by himself, of course not, don't undersell Mike just to prove your point on James.


If that's what you want ... lol .. you can have it. James is not a very good musician. He`s a decent drummer, but a lousy organ player. He can't even read music enough to write sheet music. JB is a gut composer. He feels a groove coming, he lays it on the band. He's very forceful.
For that reason, he has always need excellent musicians with him. His drummers, for example. Clyde Stubblefield and Jab'o Starks had a huge impact on creating the first funk-syncopated rhythms. Fred Wesley understood what JB wanted to hear and he pinned it down. So did Charles Sherrell, his later musical director. And Bobby Byrd had majoer input during the Flames-days.
To sum this up, James would not have made it without his talented musicians. As he creates band-driven music, this is only logical. But JB's exceptional talent is his ability to bring the right people together and make them understand what he wanted to hear. Only very few people can do this.
For that reason, none of James Brown's former musicians have achived a similar kind of fame after they left their boss. Not Maceo, not Fred Wesley.
One note since you mentioned Bootsy: He had no true influence on James Brown. He was 16 when he joined the JBs and 17 when he left - because he didn't want to obey. He wasn't with James Brown long enough to have a serious influence on JB's musical ideas. And he wasn't mature enough.

The only thing I disagree with MrSoulpower on in this thread is MJ's 'decent' vocal ability. C'mon, man-- listen to some Jackson 5 recordings and tell me that isn't a phenomenal, soul-packed voice, especially for a CHILD.

"Off The Wall" and "Thriller" brilliantly display his huge vocal talents as well.

If that's what you want ... lol .. you can have it. James is not a very good musician. He`s a decent drummer, but a lousy organ player. He can't even read music enough to write sheet music. JB is a gut composer. He feels a groove coming, he lays it on the band. He's very forceful.
For that reason, he has always need excellent musicians with him. His drummers, for example. Clyde Stubblefield and Jab'o Starks had a huge impact on creating the first funk-syncopated rhythms. Fred Wesley understood what JB wanted to hear and he pinned it down. So did Charles Sherrell, his later musical director. And Bobby Byrd had majoer input during the Flames-days.
To sum this up, James would not have made it without his talented musicians. As he creates band-driven music, this is only logical. But JB's exceptional talent is his ability to bring the right people together and make them understand what he wanted to hear. Only very few people can do this.
For that reason, none of James Brown's former musicians have achived a similar kind of fame after they left their boss. Not Maceo, not Fred Wesley.
One note since you mentioned Bootsy: He had no true influence on James Brown. He was 16 when he joined the JBs and 17 when he left - because he didn't want to obey. He wasn't with James Brown long enough to have a serious influence on JB's musical ideas. And he wasn't mature enough.

this was at a london theater..he attended a regular showing of..err...billy elliot..

Born in a socially and economically repressed mining town, Billy is told that boys box or wrestle; boys don't dance. But Billy loves to dance and does so every chance that he gets.

Isn't Bootsy on sex machine, and wasn't that part of James new sound and innovation?

Yes, a 16-years-old Bootsy is on "Sex Machine", and he was told exactly what to play on that tune.

See, one could easily detract from JB, not that I would want to.
I know you know your stuff on JB, just wanna put it out there that everyone needs help, but this has more to do with the impact of MJ, whether for good and bad, MJ changed the industry, and alotta of Black artist benefited from that.

How has the industry changed thanks to MJ? And more importantly, how do black artists benefit from that? That`s like saying OJ Simpson is a man of his people. Sorry, MJ used to be really hip in the 70s, he had all the tools to really do something for his people, but unfortuantely on the way to find himself he got lost. Just look at him (and don't call me superficial now when I call out a man who went through cosmetic surgery two dozen times in order to look more white).

dude, you can't feel mike,

dude is amazing...hate to be a fammy fan and through a video in,

http://media.putfile.com/Movie_00016948

Thanks for the great video. And above I already stated how much I like the voice of the young (!) Michael.

hey if you don't feel it, you don't feel it..... JB is not even a great vocalist to me,

JB certainly doesn't have a pretty voice. But he sure as hell got a lotta soul. He`s one of the most soulful singers that has ever walked on this planet.

and MJ has a better voice than Stevie imo. Well... as I wrote above, the appreciation of a voice is always a matter of opinion. But to claim that MJ has a better voice than Stevie ... ouch!
[Edited 10/9/05 8:59am]

How has the industry changed thanks to MJ? And more importantly, how do black artists benefit from that?

MrSoulpower said:

Dollars, money, mtv, c'mon Black musicians were getting better deals after he blew up.
[Edited 10/9/05 9:15am]

sosgemini said:

I just googled Billy Elliot




fool He really needs to go see something like Cabaret.

Once again, JB was the first black artist responsible for this accomplishment.

and MJ has a better voice than Stevie imo. Well... as I wrote above, the appreciation of a voice is always a matter of opinion. But to claim that MJ has a better voice than Stevie ... ouch!

I think the whole Michael Jackson issue and in particular the treatment he gets in America today, summarises the extent of the social mess that country is still in.

The Americans treat michael jackson as a product, which they consumed and spat back out again, its quite disgusting really. And, in the end, everything that is said in the media and indeed in public in that country points to a society that basically doesnt give a shit for human life, has no morals, is full of fundamentalists, is xenophobic and lacking in respect.

Its not just the media who convey these messages, its actually the people too. I think most Europeans find it totally bizarre. If u look at all the Jackson haters on this website, or all the people that comment on him as if they are ashamed, they are 99% American.

MJ comes to London and hundreds of fans follow him round the city, the media r everywhere, the public cheer in the street, and he gets an applause/clapping as he sits in the theatre in the West End. This simply does not happen in the US anymore.....

lol, i just felt like ranting on about the UK support and in particular French/German support for MJ which is massive.

FunkyBrotha said:

Are you kidding me? MJ is the one who brings all the negative media attention on himself by pulling bizarre stunts like dangling his newborn off a balcony, being a pathological liar, fucking his face up, and begging for attention by saying the cops manhandled him or Tommy Mottola is a devilish racist. Not to mention he always used to media to give himself a larger-than-life image and spark public interest for whatever needed to be promoted at the time.

Now, like it or a not, he's paying the price and suffering a backlash.

I think the whole Michael Jackson issue and in particular the treatment he gets in America today, summarises the extent of the social mess that country is still in.

The Americans treat michael jackson as a product, which they consumed and spat back out again, its quite disgusting really. And, in the end, everything that is said in the media and indeed in public in that country points to a society that basically doesnt give a shit for human life, has no morals, is full of fundamentalists, is xenophobic and lacking in respect.

Its not just the media who convey these messages, its actually the people too. I think most Europeans find it totally bizarre. If u look at all the Jackson haters on this website, or all the people that comment on him as if they are ashamed, they are 99% American.

MJ comes to London and hundreds of fans follow him round the city, the media r everywhere, the public cheer in the street, and he gets an applause/clapping as he sits in the theatre in the West End. This simply does not happen in the US anymore.....

lol, i just felt like ranting on about the UK support and in particular French/German support for MJ which is massive.

FunkyBrotha said:

You can kiss my American ass for that crap. I'll be the first to say America has its bullshit but at the end of the day, MJ is American. So which is it, MJ is perfect and the rest of us are pieces of shit. Well guess what, if we are all of that...then Michael is definitely a representation of it. Lack of morals, consumer driven, capitalistic shit that is America....as you say...look at the man you're defending.

wasn't it the UK tabloids that started calling him Wacko Jacko?


I think its silly make this an America vs the world view of Mj. MJ MADE himself a product. Michael Jackson has made his own bed and you can't get mad at us for making this fool lie in it.

I think its silly make this an America vs the world view of Mj. MJ MADE himself a product. Michael Jackson has made his own bed and you can't get mad at us for making this fool lie in it.

It`s not about who was born first. MJ lacks the drive and ambition of a James Brown. The reason why JB was so innovative is because he was determined to work, work, work. He took music extremely seriously and still does.

This picture especially is a claustrophobic nightmare for me. Where the hell are they? Dude is up against the ceiling above MJ! That's wiggin' me out!

RipHer2Shreds said:

You can tell in this picture what a great job he did of applying blush to the apples of his cheeks. This picture especially is a claustrophobic nightmare for me. Where the hell are they? Dude is up against the ceiling above MJ! That's wiggin' me out!

RipHer2Shreds said:

why do i see visions of Sally Fields in a mall ala Soap Dish when i look at this pic?


somebody needs an ego booster...