Okay...I'll give you a topic...

These 2 albums share a lot of similarities. They seem to divide his fanbase.

Let's Dance is considered the turning point in Bowie's career where he sold out and began to suck, even if ever so slightly. He got worse later. He went full on pop with this one and incorporated current r+b trends, dance music, future blues guitar legend Stevie Ray Vaughan and superproducer Nile Rogers. It won him huge success but lost him even huger credibility. He entered a decade of creative and personal wilderness.

10 years later, he again teamed up with Nile Rogers to produce Black Tie White Noise. Considered by many to the point where he started to get his artistic mojo back, this album kicked off a musical renaissance for him which he's still enjoying to this day. It marked a change in his life as well - he quit drugs, got healthy, happy and got married. The music reflects this with a feeling of joyfulness and recovering one's soul. Again, dance and r+b play a huge role in the sound of the album, but this time his sax is featured prominently. This gives things more of a soul/jazz vibe as opposed to the pop/blues of Let's Dance.

On either side of these came some of Bowie's most radical work, the Berlin period of the late 70's and his techno/industrial phase of the mid 90's with Outside and Earthling. Funny that one man that doesn't get mentioned much when discussing Bowie's work (Nile Rogers) was a major catalyst in the derailing and resurrecting of his career.

How do you see these albums? Which do you prefer? How well do you like them? Not many seem to all out hate them. But not many totally love them either.

Although Prince's work of the 90's was markedly better than Bowie's of the 80's, it's often agreed upon that he too went through a wilderness period. Do you see the so-called selling out of "Diamonds and Pearls" and the virtual whiplash recovery of "The Rainbow Children", also a decade apart, as a similar career arc?

Discuss. Talk amongst yourselves.

This is hard! I love both albums!

Let's Dance is a classic album with great songs: "China Girl", "Modern Love", "WITHOUT YOU" and the title track.
But I have to say the production on "Black Tie..." is better!
I love the sick sax solos Bowie has played (like in "Jump They Say")!
The drums sound so f.cking great, and the guitar solo of Mick Ronson in "I Feel Free" blows my mind!

Let's Dance includes some weak songs like "Shake It" so I go with "Black Tie White Noise"!!!

Fave trax: "You've Been Around", "I Feel Free", "Black Tie White Noise", "JUMP THEY SAY", "I Know It's Gonna Happen Someday" and "The Wedding Song".

Cheek said:

I agree with most of what you said there.

Let's Dance is definitely the more classic and essential of the two. But I just like Black Tie better. It sounds better. The songs have more depth. They seem more "Bowieish". Of course, there are a few nonsense songs on there too like "Looking For Lester", but I'm willing to overlook that cuz I truly enjoy almost everything on that album.

I have another parallel between these albums because Let's Dance was the first time I became aware of who Bowie was, and Black Tie was the first album I owned by him. I could be blind to some of the flaws from Black Tie because of that fact. It's what made me a fan.

GangstaFam said:

Finally we have something in common!

Cheek said:

Which part? That's like a daily thing with you. I'll be surprised the day we disagree about anything.

GangstaFam said:

Looking For Lester is a "skipper"!

Cheek said:

Yeah. I don't hate it. It just doesn't really add anything. I think the opening instrumental "The Wedding" is kinda unnecessary too. It'd be better as a 10 track album. Either that or replace those 2 with "Lucy Can't Dance" as part of the album and "Real Cool World" right before "Jump They Say".

Black Tie/White Noise for me! And I also dig the duet he did with Al B Sure... was it the title track?



....where are the Bowie survivor threads? Where did we stop? Like TMWSTW, or somethin'? Was too emotionally exhausting, I guess!

calldapplwondery83 said:

Hey good point! I don't know what happened there. Bring on Hunky Dory!

GangstaFam said:

Hunky Dory ->>>

Cheek said:

I think we just forgot to finish that last one. I'm sure the rest of his 70's survivor threads would get a great response.

Listening to "Black Tie White Noise"

Cheek said:

I'm gonna too.

BTWN

i FAR prefer 'let's dance' to WTBN. there's only one song on WTBN i truly like ("Jump They Say"), and there's a LOT on WTBN that i can't stomach.

meanwhile, as fluffy and plastic as 'let's dance' may be, it's still a lean album with three classic singles, not to mention a strong trace of the "old" bowie still lingers throughout the album. "cat people" is one of my favorite bowie songs (i've heard three versions of it now, and i love all three), "criminal world" still gives me chills (it's all about the chorus), and i can even get in the mood for "shake it" and "without you", just cuz i like to hear bowie get all sexy and croon a bit. oh, and "ricochet"? love it. it's trashy and gaudy and EVER so '80s, but i think that's exactly why i think it's so fun. as for the three hits from this album, every now and then i get in a mood where i MUST hear "let's dance" or "china girl" (especially the latter). i'm not so crazy about "modern love", but it sounds great live.

i don't see the music on 'let's dance' or the choices in production of the album leading to bowie's creative slump in the '80s. i see his reaction to huge mainstream fame being the primary reason for the slump, as well as perhaps a bit of a midlife crisis? i know 'let's dance' was a project calculated to make bowie into Johnny Rockstar, but i also think it was an album crafted with a good amount of integrity.

except for that bit where bowie's miming SRV's guitar solo in the 'let's dance' video whilst wearing kid gloves. i don't know what he was thinking there.

Anxiety said:

I will never be able to understand that. Maybe you'll have a Young Americans with it and come around.

GangstaFam said:

it's REALLY doubtful. it has that cheesy early '90s sound (cover your eyes Sexofit) that makes my ears bleed. I might be protesting too much here, but I just don't like that smooth-jazz/house-pop sound. Bleargh.

Anxiety said:

Fooey!

I like my favorite songs from Let's Dance better than my favorites from Black Tie, White Noise, but Black Tie, White Noise is probably more consistent.

Draw.

GangstaFam said:

I think I probably just killed my own thread.

I think that I probably overrate BTWN a bit and underrate Let's Dance. I like most of the songs from Let's Dance, it just doesn't add up to a very exciting album for me and I hardly ever play it. Most of what I appreciate it for is the number of tracks that are compilation worthy.

GangstaFam said:

the only time i pull out my copy of BTWN is when i wanna put 'jump they say' on comp discs (as funkmistress can tell you!), or these days, to add 'real cool world', which is cheesy as hell, but i love it.

Anxiety said:

I can see how you wouldn't like that album given that your first Bowie primer was Stage. But I would imagine it would've been a huge relief after his late 80's and Tin Machine wasteland for most people. You don't even mildly like some of the songs that aren't jazz or house? Like some of the more soul oriented songs like Don't Let Me Down & Down or the Moz cover?

GangstaFam said:

Oh, I don't mind the Morrissey cover - in fact, it proved a theory I had in which I thought I might really like Smiths songs if someone other than Morrissey were singing them. Though the thing that keeps me at a distance from that track is my general dislike of gospel choirs in rock songs. BIG pet peeve. Children's choirs are even worse. I can tolerate this song, but it's not really a fave.

I will admit, when BTWN came out, I was a bit relieved. I almost couldn't believe it was an actual new Bowie album, because he'd showered so much unmitigated suckitude over the past 10 years or so, I didn't think it was possible for his music to ever sound solid again. I wasn't crazy about it on first listen, but I appreciated it. If that made sense. It wasn't until I got 'Buddha of Suburbia' in 1994 that I really felt like Bowie had come back home to us.

Bowie's "I Know It's Gonna Happen Someday" is just amazing!!!
An all time fave of mine!!!

GangstaFam said:

Modern Love is so cheesy. Im not a big Bowie fan but by god that was really really terrible. By far his worst single. Let's Dance though is a monster. One of the great pop songs ever.

WildheartXXX said:

modern love is kinda cheesy, but you should hear what he's done with it live over the past few years - he's basically turned it into a punk song, a la the clash. it's still not one of his best live arrangements, but it's a vast improvement over the original studio recording (which i don't really mind, but i can see how people might hate it).

Anxiety said:

I nearly creamed myself at the Reality warm-up gig hearing that. OMFG!

Anxiety said:

I can feel ya on that.

As far as the choir thing, is it just specifically in rock music? Cuz I know how much you love Vespertine.

GangstaFam said:

bjork knows how to use a choir because it's appropriate to the composition. most rock artists use choirs as a way of saying "look how soulful and spiritual we are..." and that REALLY fucking gets on my nerves. especially when they accompany it with a video of the band getting together with a big smiling church choir and layin' it down in the studio...can ya feel the magic? can ya? HUH?!?

sheesh.

ANYway - yeah, big pet peeve.