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Is Tori Alamaze the retelling of the Kim Hill story? Just like the case of The Black Eyed Peas with Fergie taking over the spot once left behind by Kim Hill.....
What about the case of Don't Cha, once a song for Tori Amamaze that NEVER became a hit on the Billboard Top 100 Singles Chart (USA), now is a huge hit song AND hit video for the current line-up of The Pussycat Dolls (PCD)? http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ri_Alamaze Tori Alamaze was a back-up singer for Outkast, aswell as a makeup artist. She got her big break when somebody offered her a record deal. From there, she worked on her debut album, making guest appearances where ever she could, aswell as being opening acts for more popular bands today, including the Black Eyed Peas. Her first single was "Don't Cha", produced by Cee-lo Green. It wasnt that successful, only peaking at #58 on Billboards Hot 100 Chart. And because of this, and the fact that she felt like her record company wasnt doing their job, she wanted to be released from her Universal contract and thus gave up all rights to the song. Cee-lo Green, sensing he had a hit, rerecorded it with a group known as the Pussycat Dolls, added a Busta Rhymes verse and know it made the Billboard top charts and is a hit around the country. EDIT NOTE: I actually had a chance to listen to Tori's version of the song. And believe me, the drum programming was deep & rough as vinyl. Also the tempo was a very few steps slower!!! THIS original version was NEVER design for the dance or Hot 100 Single Charts. 
So what's the point I'm trying to make? As I think about Kim Hill & Tori Alamaze, I wonder if it's just me or are dark-skinned black female artists getting screw out of their chances to actually have any kind of crossover mainstream success in the music industry? THIS thread IS NOT intended to be a personal/professional attack on Fergie or PCD; I like these ladies and I wish people & critics would give them some respect & credit for everything that they have accomplish so far in their music career. And I have respect for BEP & Cee-Lo as black men getting the job done and getting paid well for it. For anything, I'm really calling out the industry itself from giving people the very WRONG impression that you MUST sellout by the ways of removing dark-skinned black women out of the business picture or making them leaving on their own. All of this in the name of crossing over to sell more records! If I'm wrong about my theory (or fact), then I'm deeply sorry for drawing the wrong conclusion so quickly. Either way, what's you take on THIS issue? Could there have been another way to save the carrer of Tori Alamaze? [Edited 8/27/05 11:34am] | |
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I have to agree with you on this. I remember when I heard Tori's version of "Don't Cha" on the radio when I returned from overseas in December. It caught me off guard and I was like "Who is that?" Then I heard it at a club in W Hollywood and EVERYBODY was dancing their asses off when the song came on. I happened to find the CD single for it a few months later at Tower Records and the guy at the counter told me that a lot of people had been asking him about who had sung the song.
To me it's like this, it could have been a hit if promoted properly. The buzz was growing and there was no reason why the song didn't go further than it should have. I think it's way better than The Pussycat Dolls version. It's more sexy and believable. The music industry is the poster child of corruption and all that happened with her never should have happened. I hope she and Kim can come back 1000 times harder than before. We need some dark-skinned ladies to kick some ass in the music world. [Edited 8/27/05 10:24am] I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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purplecam said: I have to agree with you on this. I remember when I heard Tori's version of "Don't Cha" on the radio when I returned from overseas in December. It caught me off guard and I was like "Who is that?" Then I heard it at a club in W Hollywood and EVERYBODY was dancing their asses off when the song came on. I happened to find the CD single for it a few months later at Tower Records and the guy at the counter told me that a lot of people had been asking him about who had sung the song.
To me it's like this, it could have been a hit if promoted properly. The buzz was growing and there was no reason why the song didn't go further than it should have. I think it's way better than The Pussycat Dolls version. It's more sexy and believable. The music industry is the poster child of corruption and all that happened with her never should have happened. I hope she and Kim can come back 1000 times harder than before. We need some dark-skinned ladies to kick some ass in the music world. [Edited 8/27/05 10:24am] Tori's version is only available through P2P (as the rumor goes). If A&M/Universal really wanted to make money, They should help set up a concert and have Tori Alamaze VS. PCD kind of a face-off and let the fans decide for themselves who has the better version of Don't Cha! Then re-release both CD singles and sell them all at the show itself and make history...the same way Tag Team & 95 South make THIS kind of history with their respected versions of Whoof, There It IS. | |
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TonyVanDam said: purplecam said: I have to agree with you on this. I remember when I heard Tori's version of "Don't Cha" on the radio when I returned from overseas in December. It caught me off guard and I was like "Who is that?" Then I heard it at a club in W Hollywood and EVERYBODY was dancing their asses off when the song came on. I happened to find the CD single for it a few months later at Tower Records and the guy at the counter told me that a lot of people had been asking him about who had sung the song.
To me it's like this, it could have been a hit if promoted properly. The buzz was growing and there was no reason why the song didn't go further than it should have. I think it's way better than The Pussycat Dolls version. It's more sexy and believable. The music industry is the poster child of corruption and all that happened with her never should have happened. I hope she and Kim can come back 1000 times harder than before. We need some dark-skinned ladies to kick some ass in the music world. [Edited 8/27/05 10:24am] Tori's version is only available through P2P (as the rumor goes). If A&M/Universal really wanted to make money, They should help set up a concert and have Tori Alamaze VS. PCD kind of a face-off and let the fans decide for themselves who has the better version of Don't Cha! Then re-release both CD singles and sell them all at the show itself and make history...the same way Tag Team & 95 South make THIS kind of history with their respected versions of Whoof, There It IS. They're selling it through the P2P probably because of the success of the Pussycat's version. Your idea though would be awesome. They should do that but the industry has changed a bit since 1993. I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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Well since NICOLE of the PCD's is a longtime friend of Mine I am partial to her, since TORI had some nasty things to say about her. But i do understand her point but this goes on all the time, First of All this is not TORI's song, it was written by Cee-loo and the Rap by Busta Ryhmes. When Cee-lo gave the song to Tori to do, they thought it would be bigger but the Production that Cee-lo and his team gave it did not work. For the record PCD did not steal the song as TORI has been running around saying, but thats just "bad Blood" that she should be sending to Cee-lo and Outkast. This is not the first time a SOng hasnt been a HIT for someone and has been for someone else. Look at POWER OF LOVE, that song was Recorded by JENNIFER RUSH and Bombed then By Laura Branigan and couldnt get played then by AIR SUPPLY and peaked at no.92 then "crappy" Celine DIon did it and made it a huge hit, thats just the way it goes. When i have spoken to NICOLE she has said the same thing, when she was in EDENS CRUSH that made her stay towards the back because she wasnt a "presence" they said, then she wanted to write and they told her no way, the songs were already done, then when the CD came out they promoted it but then some other group came along and the Label stop the promo machine. Thats the nature of the Business, im not saying its right at all, im just saying TORI calm down, stop taking shots at people that had nothing to do with it. PCD werent the ones holding you down, its the people u thought were helping U (cee-lo, outkast, your label) "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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lastdecember said: Well since NICOLE of the PCD's is a longtime friend of Mine I am partial to her, since TORI had some nasty things to say about her. But i do understand her point but this goes on all the time, First of All this is not TORI's song, it was written by Cee-loo and the Rap by Busta Ryhmes. When Cee-lo gave the song to Tori to do, they thought it would be bigger but the Production that Cee-lo and his team gave it did not work. For the record PCD did not steal the song as TORI has been running around saying, but thats just "bad Blood" that she should be sending to Cee-lo and Outkast. This is not the first time a SOng hasnt been a HIT for someone and has been for someone else. Look at POWER OF LOVE, that song was Recorded by JENNIFER RUSH and Bombed then By Laura Branigan and couldnt get played then by AIR SUPPLY and peaked at no.92 then "crappy" Celine DIon did it and made it a huge hit, thats just the way it goes. When i have spoken to NICOLE she has said the same thing, when she was in EDENS CRUSH that made her stay towards the back because she wasnt a "presence" they said, then she wanted to write and they told her no way, the songs were already done, then when the CD came out they promoted it but then some other group came along and the Label stop the promo machine. Thats the nature of the Business, im not saying its right at all, im just saying TORI calm down, stop taking shots at people that had nothing to do with it. PCD werent the ones holding you down, its the people u thought were helping U (cee-lo, outkast, your label)
it's good hearing from the other side. i've grown to like the PCD's version but the one thing i hate the most on it is Busta's rap. it was sooooo unnecessary. I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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lastdecember said: Well since NICOLE of the PCD's is a longtime friend of Mine I am partial to her, since TORI had some nasty things to say about her. But i do understand her point but this goes on all the time, First of All this is not TORI's song, it was written by Cee-loo and the Rap by Busta Ryhmes. When Cee-lo gave the song to Tori to do, they thought it would be bigger but the Production that Cee-lo and his team gave it did not work. For the record PCD did not steal the song as TORI has been running around saying, but thats just "bad Blood" that she should be sending to Cee-lo and Outkast. This is not the first time a SOng hasnt been a HIT for someone and has been for someone else. Look at POWER OF LOVE, that song was Recorded by JENNIFER RUSH and Bombed then By Laura Branigan and couldnt get played then by AIR SUPPLY and peaked at no.92 then "crappy" Celine DIon did it and made it a huge hit, thats just the way it goes. When i have spoken to NICOLE she has said the same thing, when she was in EDENS CRUSH that made her stay towards the back because she wasnt a "presence" they said, then she wanted to write and they told her no way, the songs were already done, then when the CD came out they promoted it but then some other group came along and the Label stop the promo machine. Thats the nature of the Business, im not saying its right at all, im just saying TORI calm down, stop taking shots at people that had nothing to do with it. PCD werent the ones holding you down, its the people u thought were helping U (cee-lo, outkast, your label)
Thank you for posting! 
And to be perfectly clear, Cee-Lo NEVER fired Tori from his production company. Universal Records NEVER fired or drop Tori from their label. Tori quit on her own because of the lack of promotion on her version of Don't Cha. Again, the only people that should have been called out for any failures is Universal Records. What went wrong on their part? [Edited 8/27/05 13:34pm] | |
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I did this topic a while ago and no one responded to it.... 
http://www.prince.org/msg/8/156649 I feel the love in this Org. Now whose flat top rules in '89? - Big Daddy Kane | |
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purplecam said: lastdecember said: Well since NICOLE of the PCD's is a longtime friend of Mine I am partial to her, since TORI had some nasty things to say about her. But i do understand her point but this goes on all the time, First of All this is not TORI's song, it was written by Cee-loo and the Rap by Busta Ryhmes. When Cee-lo gave the song to Tori to do, they thought it would be bigger but the Production that Cee-lo and his team gave it did not work. For the record PCD did not steal the song as TORI has been running around saying, but thats just "bad Blood" that she should be sending to Cee-lo and Outkast. This is not the first time a SOng hasnt been a HIT for someone and has been for someone else. Look at POWER OF LOVE, that song was Recorded by JENNIFER RUSH and Bombed then By Laura Branigan and couldnt get played then by AIR SUPPLY and peaked at no.92 then "crappy" Celine DIon did it and made it a huge hit, thats just the way it goes. When i have spoken to NICOLE she has said the same thing, when she was in EDENS CRUSH that made her stay towards the back because she wasnt a "presence" they said, then she wanted to write and they told her no way, the songs were already done, then when the CD came out they promoted it but then some other group came along and the Label stop the promo machine. Thats the nature of the Business, im not saying its right at all, im just saying TORI calm down, stop taking shots at people that had nothing to do with it. PCD werent the ones holding you down, its the people u thought were helping U (cee-lo, outkast, your label)
it's good hearing from the other side. i've grown to like the PCD's version but the one thing i hate the most on it is Busta's rap. it was sooooo unnecessary. I agree Bustas rap is annoying (as usual) thats why when they perform LIVE i am so happy cause he's not there and they change the arrangement and incorporate the Dance Mix. I think U all should give the PCD a listen when the CD comes out 9-13. I have heard half of it and its HOT, Nicole can sing, sure there are Big name "Hit" Producers on there to make the CD appeal to everyone but hey thats the way it is, But dont count NICOLE out, she is in high demand right now, she is on the WILL SMITH cd, and it looks like the SOng will be the next single, she is on the Upcoming SHAGGY cd, and a few more coming down the line, also she has a Long history, obvously in EDENS CRUSH but she also was a Vocalist in Days of the New before that, her favorite artists are Sade and Coldplay, and she is really cool. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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purplecam said: it's good hearing from the other side. i've grown to like the PCD's version but the one thing i hate the most on it is Busta's rap. it was sooooo unnecessary. Sounds to me like Busta's rap was there BEFORE the PCD's vocals were.  | |
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DeepChic said: I did this topic a while ago and no one responded to it....
http://www.prince.org/msg/8/156649 I feel the love in this Org. Don't sweat it sister. I got your back! | |
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lastdecember said: purplecam said: it's good hearing from the other side. i've grown to like the PCD's version but the one thing i hate the most on it is Busta's rap. it was sooooo unnecessary. I agree Bustas rap is annoying (as usual) thats why when they perform LIVE i am so happy cause he's not there and they change the arrangement and incorporate the Dance Mix. I think U all should give the PCD a listen when the CD comes out 9-13. I have heard half of it and its HOT, Nicole can sing, sure there are Big name "Hit" Producers on there to make the CD appeal to everyone but hey thats the way it is, But dont count NICOLE out, she is in high demand right now, she is on the WILL SMITH cd, and it looks like the SOng will be the next single, she is on the Upcoming SHAGGY cd, and a few more coming down the line, also she has a Long history, obvously in EDENS CRUSH but she also was a Vocalist in Days of the New before that, her favorite artists are Sade and Coldplay, and she is really cool. Controversial Question: Depending on the success of PCD as a girl band, do you see a possibility of Nicole going solo anytime soon? I'm only asking for an honest opinion because this has happen a lot in music history: Michael Jackson (The Jacksons), George Michael (WHAM!), Justin Timberlake (*NSYNC), All 6 members of New Edition, etc. | |
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TonyVanDam said: Controversial Question: Depending on the success of PCD as a girl band, do you see a possibility of Nicole going solo anytime soon? I'm only asking for an honest opinion because this has happen a lot in music history: Michael Jackson (The Jacksons), George Michael (WHAM!), Justin Timberlake (*NSYNC), All 6 members of New Edition, etc. Maybe, but not before Fergie. There's a whole lot of people just waiting for her to shake off the black ass peas (yeah, I know that's what some folks think of them) and let go of that "rap mess" so she can grow into a full blown pop artist. Personally, I think they never should have picked her up, but that's just my opinion. There is a reason Wild Orchid flopped, but I digress. Sorry, off topic. Nicole is cute and has a nice voice. The PCDs are a money project. Similar to the Spice Girls, etc. Novelty in concept with the option to go as far as the public is willing to pay to take them. Its not a bad thing in the general sense. EnVogue was a money project and I love their work. The very nature of projects like these are to last for a little while and open up doors for the truly talented of the bunch to move forward. Nicole can go solo, but the question is would she be more successful as the frontwoman for her group? This project has one hit wonder written all over it. I don't think the question is can she, I think its when should she. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: TonyVanDam said: Controversial Question: Depending on the success of PCD as a girl band, do you see a possibility of Nicole going solo anytime soon? I'm only asking for an honest opinion because this has happen a lot in music history: Michael Jackson (The Jacksons), George Michael (WHAM!), Justin Timberlake (*NSYNC), All 6 members of New Edition, etc. Maybe, but not before Fergie. There's a whole lot of people just waiting for her to shake off the black ass peas (yeah, I know that's what some folks think of them) and let go of that "rap mess" so she can grow into a full blown pop artist. Personally, I think they never should have picked her up, but that's just my opinion. There is a reason Wild Orchid flopped, but I digress. Sorry, off topic. Nicole is cute and has a nice voice. The PCDs are a money project. Similar to the Spice Girls, etc. Novelty in concept with the option to go as far as the public is willing to pay to take them. Its not a bad thing in the general sense. EnVogue was a money project and I love their work. The very nature of projects like these are to last for a little while and open up doors for the truly talented of the bunch to move forward. Nicole can go solo, but the question is would she be more successful as the frontwoman for her group? This project has one hit wonder written all over it. I don't think the question is can she, I think its when should she. Pardon me for changing the subject.... Fergie will have a solo album in 2006! She confirm it already in a recent interview. And will.i.am also will have a solo album thereafter. Apart from one song with all four members at one time (Don't Lie), the rest of THIS BEP album comes off as will.i.am/fergie duet album by design!!!:  | |
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Could history repeat itself?
 | |
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I like the re-release version. The sax was added, mo' betta background vocals (the original basically had none) and the tempo is better.
But in the same time..I thought the girl in the video was the same girl as the original. I guess not. I would be mad as hell!!! Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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TonyVanDam said: Could history repeat itself?
Well i would Love it if Nicole experienced the Success of the Volume the Spice Girls did, but it terms of that Kind of craze that wont happen. The Spice Girls i think started the POP wave, Britney, Mandy, Christina, Jessica, Nysnc, Backstreet, 98 degrees etcc.... I dont see PCD starting a TREND like that. PCD have been around awhile, but the Idea to record didnt come until NICOLE joined, the dolls were basically a Lounge, Vegas act, and doing Events, but making lots of $$ trust me on that, they could have made a livign on that EASILY. But the idea to SING came when NICOLE came into the group, Carmen electra was in there for awhile but as we know she is not a Vocalist and couldnt let a group, (though i love her). Nicole can front a group and has, she also has SOLO appeal and talent, which is what PCD wanted, not just another girl that could Look Sexy and Dance, they needed a Singer, but one that could adapt to the Image the dolls had. BUT once Nicole got in THINGS changed alot, The Dolls started mixing it up, usually a LINGERIE clad group they started changing up the fashion drastically, wearing everything from Sweats to Mini skirts and High heels. I think the FUN image of that is what pushed them further and NICOLE who is a Total FUN package lead the way, her personality of just having fun translates. When u see this girl perform U really see how much this girl Loves to Sing and Perform, its not a Job to her. So when she joined they at first Kept her towards the back, but that wasnt happening, the managers wanted NICOLE up front and Singing, so it started with A cover of SWAY on the SHALL WE DANCE soundtrack, then a Cover of Tainted Love, then some appearances in Tv shows and Movies, then another few more Soundtrack appearances, then UNIVERSAL saw them and put some $$$ into it and Promotion. And thats basically that for now, the GIRLS will be on tour with either GWEN or the Black Eyed Peas as an opening act for them. The CD will be out 9/13 and its HOT, best track IMO is a song called "BUTTONS" better known as "LOOSEN UP MY BUTTONS" its a SEXY/SLEAZY track very VANITY 6/MAry Jane girls type thing, Nicole is amazing on this track. it might be the next single or the third one. "We went where our music was appreciated, and that was everywhere but the USA, we knew we had fans, but there is only so much of the world you can play at once" Magne F | |
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BlaqueKnight said: purplecam said: it's good hearing from the other side. i've grown to like the PCD's version but the one thing i hate the most on it is Busta's rap. it was sooooo unnecessary. Sounds to me like Busta's rap was there BEFORE the PCD's vocals were. They have 3 versions. One without Busta, the original demo version, and the one with Busta 
They also have one with Busta but missing the 3rd verse  [Edited 8/27/05 14:50pm] Straight Jacket Funk Affair
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paisleypark4 said: BlaqueKnight said: Sounds to me like Busta's rap was there BEFORE the PCD's vocals were. They have 3 versions. One without Busta, the original demo version, and the one with Busta
They also have one with Busta but missing the 3rd verse
[Edited 8/27/05 14:50pm] I DO NOT like this version without the 3rd verse. Sounds like an incomplete story. The demo version is actually Tori Alamaze's version. It's the one with the tempo within 2 steps slower than PCD's version. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: purplecam said: it's good hearing from the other side. i've grown to like the PCD's version but the one thing i hate the most on it is Busta's rap. it was sooooo unnecessary. Sounds to me like Busta's rap was there BEFORE the PCD's vocals were. really? i wouldn't doubt that. I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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lastdecember said: TonyVanDam said: Could history repeat itself?
Well i would Love it if Nicole experienced the Success of the Volume the Spice Girls did, but it terms of that Kind of craze that wont happen. The Spice Girls i think started the POP wave, Britney, Mandy, Christina, Jessica, Nysnc, Backstreet, 98 degrees etcc.... I dont see PCD starting a TREND like that. PCD have been around awhile, but the Idea to record didnt come until NICOLE joined, the dolls were basically a Lounge, Vegas act, and doing Events, but making lots of $$ trust me on that, they could have made a livign on that EASILY. But the idea to SING came when NICOLE came into the group, Carmen electra was in there for awhile but as we know she is not a Vocalist and couldnt let a group, (though i love her). Nicole can front a group and has, she also has SOLO appeal and talent, which is what PCD wanted, not just another girl that could Look Sexy and Dance, they needed a Singer, but one that could adapt to the Image the dolls had. BUT once Nicole got in THINGS changed alot, The Dolls started mixing it up, usually a LINGERIE clad group they started changing up the fashion drastically, wearing everything from Sweats to Mini skirts and High heels. I think the FUN image of that is what pushed them further and NICOLE who is a Total FUN package lead the way, her personality of just having fun translates. When u see this girl perform U really see how much this girl Loves to Sing and Perform, its not a Job to her. So when she joined they at first Kept her towards the back, but that wasnt happening, the managers wanted NICOLE up front and Singing, so it started with A cover of SWAY on the SHALL WE DANCE soundtrack, then a Cover of Tainted Love, then some appearances in Tv shows and Movies, then another few more Soundtrack appearances, then UNIVERSAL saw them and put some $$$ into it and Promotion. And thats basically that for now, the GIRLS will be on tour with either GWEN or the Black Eyed Peas as an opening act for them. The CD will be out 9/13 and its HOT, best track IMO is a song called "BUTTONS" better known as "LOOSEN UP MY BUTTONS" its a SEXY/SLEAZY track very VANITY 6/MAry Jane girls type thing, Nicole is amazing on this track. it might be the next single or the third one. Very interesting. I dug Nicole when MTV interviewed her and the group. They were asked about Don't Cha and she told them that it had a Prince vibe to it, and when she said that, I almost jumped out of my seat. I was so happy to see that she "got it" about that song. Don't Cha sounds very much like a Prince song circa 1982, which is why I love the song and to see that she realized that was just great. She seems very cool and I won't be shocked if we hear a lot more from her in the future, with or without the Dolls. I'm not a fan of "old Prince". I'm not a fan of "new Prince". I'm just a fan of Prince. Simple as that | |
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Okay, I a & b'ed the versions that I could find. I do kinda like Tori's version. I think Nicole may be a better singer, but Tori's version has more character in my opinion. Like the break down:
I know I'm on your mind, I know we could have a good time I'm your friend, I'm fun and I'm fine I ain't lyin' - Look at me, you ain't blind That was very Vanity 6-ish lyrically. I thought it was cool. The Dolls' version is a little spicier, but not necessarily better. Its just a matter of preference. They do sound a bit alike vocally. Either way, i'm not buying this record unless its musically impressive. Somehow I don't think the label is aiming for that. | |
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BlaqueKnight said: Okay, I a & b'ed the versions that I could find. I do kinda like Tori's version. I think Nicole may be a better singer, but Tori's version has more character in my opinion. Like the break down:
I know I'm on your mind, I know we could have a good time I'm your friend, I'm fun and I'm fine I ain't lyin' - Look at me, you ain't blind That was very Vanity 6-ish lyrically. I thought it was cool. The Dolls' version is a little spicier, but not necessarily better. Its just a matter of preference. They do sound a bit alike vocally. Either way, i'm not buying this record unless its musically impressive. Somehow I don't think the label is aiming for that. The self-titled debut album have better be a good one. Right after the breaking up of Destiny's Child, there are no other girl groups to look forward to. PCD better begin it! | |
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