justhemusic said:

I got so caught up in trying to prove stuff that I almost forgot how much I truly hold them both in high regard. Well said, man.
[Edited 8/11/05 20:04pm]

Wow. I feel like there was just a thread about this...oh wait there was.
Anyway...I bought VooDoo when it was released but I could never get into it, so I gave it to my ex. But all this debate is making me want to go out and buy it again; especially b/c I wasn't hip to all this NPS/VooDoo/TRC drama. (I didn't have the org to school me. )


BTW, I thought of (another) similarity b/t P & D--they both need to put out new albums soon so that we have more to discuss!

Sdldawn said:

TheCrucialExperience said:

Man please. We all know Voodoo liner notes pissed Prince off and inspired much of the musicianship of TRC. Hence Muse To The Pharoah, Mellow, rhoades use, traditional rnb song structure on TRC, Undisputed remix lyrics. And Prince then doing the duet with Angie Stone, D's ex. Then bringing Badu to his celebration etc. Badu and Stone affiliated with 2uestlove, D's Voodoo drummer and co-pilot.

Prince Undisputed (The Moneyapolis Mix) lyrics
Once again I don't follow trends, they just follow me
just like Israelitis thru the Red Sea
It might take U some time b4 U'll want 2 c
the Undisputed truth and get FREE
My level is now what U must learn 2 rise above
Talk 2 D'Angelo or better yet ?usetlove

Chorus:
How is it that a brutha always wanna keep another one back?
I'm 2 far right 2 get left goin' sideways, Jack
How is that a brutha always wanna keep another one back?
Never We mind what U do, in Moneyapolis - We da MACK!

5 little Indians tryin' 2 steal from my stack
A groove or 2 later, all the critics tell them what they lack
A bowl of them 'O's is like sugar, and no smack
How is it that a brutha always wanna keep another one back?

Chorus

And I... woke this morning 2 a drum roll - RATATAT
B4 I even got outta bed, I got another track
Who's that brushin' they teeth in the bathroom,
slender, fine and black?
Never she mind what U do, in Moneyapolis I'm the MACK

Chorus

4 every royalty point of urs I make a mill$advance
That's y in videos U never c me dance
Y should I, when minorities get half a chance?
In truth: U r 2 me, simply - my biggest fan.

Chuck D.'s rhyme:
Come 1, come all 2 the download ball
There's no curfew 2 hurt U - No substitutions
School's now in session
put down the Smith & Wessons
Real renegades don't invite grenades 2 make the grade
This is a brain raid - Who rise above the lies
Raise above these days
New ways disguised as a craze
Uh, gotcha back against the status they thrown at us
Back against the wall again - HIgh trees catch a lot of wind
Last band standin'
Gotta knack 4 overstandin'
Accordin' 2 plan and look up in the sky
No cable wire
God bless the child

Is that my song playing on the radio?
"It could b G, I can't remember, I wrote it in '84!"
Y'all keep groovin' - U know I got nothin' but love 4 sho
Take it - like Clarence said:
"I got a million of them -
and they're all different, U know."

DiamondGirl said:

Jesus H. Christ. This is goddamn shame now. Now we have "PRINCE BEING PISSED AT D'ANGELO" (NO PROOF WHATSOEVER) to "PRINCE WAS INSPIRED BY D'ANGELO" (NO PROOF WHATSOEVER, ESPECIALLY SINCE PRINCE IS A MUSICAL GENIUS AND D' IS ON CRACK THIS WEEK) to "PRINCE DID A DUET WITH ANGIE STONE JUST TO SPITE D'" (SO NOW PRINCE DOES A DUET WITH ANGIE, NOT BECAUSE SHE CAN SING HER ASS OFF OR WAS ESTABLISHED BEFORE D' WAS, BUT BECAUSE HE WANTS TO SPITE D'ANGELO, HOW DUMB IS THAT?) to "HE BROUGHT BADU TO HIS CELEBRATION (NOW WHAT THE FUCK DOES BADU HAVE TO DO WITH D'ANGELO? D' DISCOVERED BADU AND HE PRESENTED HER TO PRINCE? WTF?) to "?UESTLOVE IS THE 'REAL' GENIUS BEHIND ALL OF THIS BECAUSE D' AND BADU ARE 'AFFILIATED' WITH HIM. Uh, yeah. Ok.

MsDiamond, go to bed. For real.

TheCrucialExperience said:

Badu is part of 2uest's Soulquarians movement. Duh. Ill go to bed, if you wake up. And all that yellin = The Nile...you're soaking/swimmin it in.


.
[Edited 8/11/05 22:35pm]

white castle uses horse meat.

TheCrucialExperience said:

Actually, as someone with no love for Voodoo, I gotta disagree with you on this one. I don't feel TRC was inspired by Voodoo at all, but that doesn't mean P didn't find some inspiration from D. First off, P kept giving shout-outs to D after Brown Sugar dropped, and we know P rarely does that unless he admires the artist. According to Crystal Ball's liner notes, the only reason "Movie Star" was included was because D'Angelo loved the track so much, so P had to have SOME adimration for him. Sure, D was influenced by P first, but that doesn't mean that P didn't take a cue from the directions D was going in.

I think it is pretty obvious that the lyrics to the "Moneyappolis Remix" of "Undisputed" are a direct shot at D'Angelo and ?uestloves's comments about P, as is the "real chicken grease" and "junkie with cornrows" comments on "The Daisy Chain". I also totally agree that "U Make My Sunshine" was a definite attempt to one-up D's "Untitled", as the two songs are similar, but P went a step further with it.

My ONLY dispute is the assertion that TRC was a response to Voodoo, as I don't see the similarities AT ALL. To me, TRC was a definite response to how taken he was with Badu's Mama's Gun (and I think this is the real reason she was included in the celebration, not as a way of getting back at D. P has been just as, if not more so, vocal about his love for Badu as he is about D'Angelo).
[Edited 8/12/05 6:17am]

sextonseven said:

Well, personally, I don't give music critics a whole lot of credence. They are spewing their own opinions, no different from you and I. I've noticed that MANY critics love to hop on to the latest bandwagon, and it really has NOTHING to do with how good an album is. Too many times I've seen great albums get trashed, while horrid dreck gets praised, simply because the dreck was released by an "it" artist.

Hey, I'll be the first to admit this is just my opinion. I was amazed at how many P fans were all over Voodoo, yet saying NPS sucked. To me, they were both gawd-awful shite, and for many of the same reasons. Almost everything I hated about NPS is also an element of why I detest Voodoo.

No, I didn't want Brown Sugar 2, but I certainly didn't want this crap either. It just did nothing for me, and I REALLY did try to like it. I can't tell you how many times I listened to it, hoping it would eventually grab me, but it just didn't. I eventually just sold it to a used record store, when I realized there was no way I was ever going to be able to listen to it without cringing.

Hopefully, his next album (if he ever gets around to it) will be nothing like either one of his prior discs.

Hotlegs said:

Damn! What da hell - did he join a cult or some shit? remember the episode of 'Martin' When he became Shaquille Sunflower?

DiamondGirl said:

LOL! AND? What the fuck does that have to do with Prince INVITING her to a celebration? How does THAT prove that D'ANGELO INFLUENCED PRINCE TO INVITE BADU TO SOMETHING? LOL! Get real. Stop blowing smoke up everyone's asses if YOU HAVE NO PROOF.

JediMaster said:

Giving SHOUT OUTS is NOWHERE NEAR THE SAME AS BEING INFLUENCED BY SOMEONE. Do you guys even know what SHOUT OUTS are? - ACKNOWLEDGEMENT of a friend or family member or fellow artist. Damn. You cats will try and link ANYTHING to this won't you? So now EVERY artist that gives a shout to another artist means they were INFLUENCED BY THAT ARTIST? Wow.

P's Moneyapolis is nothing different from when he did Shockadelica to spite Jesse Johnson, NOT INSPIRED BY JESSE but TO SPITE/POKE FUN AT JESSE.

People thinking P was getting "back at D'" for ANYTHING is PURELY speculation and no real proof to back that up.

JediMaster said:

I thought the releases of TRC and Mamas Gun were to close to have one be influenced by the other.

TheCrucialExperience said:

The proof has already been shown over and over. You're just too far gone having fits to acquiesce and acknowledge it. Wake up son.

DiamondGirl said:

Mama's Gun was released in November of 2000, TRC was released in October of 2001. Prince records incredibly fast, and this is MORE than enough time between the two for P to have been inspired by it and have done a record in that vein

JediMaster said:

Yes I know that much. I just wanted the release dates.


Voodoo was also released in 2000


.
[Edited 8/12/05 8:49am]

DiamondGirl said:

LOL! What proof? That SHIT you tried to PASS OFF as PROOF? LMAO! Your shit wouldn't even hold up in KIDDIE KOURT OF LAW! [Watch the flames! - Tom]

TheCrucialExperience said:

Methinks you protest too much. But we know why

TheCrucialExperience said:

Dude, CHILL! It's just an opinion, and I wasn't trying to make some sort of grand case here. I've already stated that I think the assertion that TRC was inspired by Voodoo is nonsense.



Ummm, no, it is NOT the same thing at all. First off, when P did Shockadelica, it wasn't to poke fun at Jesse. He originally OFFERED the song to Jesse, since he thought that it was too cool of a title to not have a song bearing the name as well. Your info is flawed on this one.

Second, in the Moneyapolis mix, when it mentions D'Angelo and ?uestlove, he then CLEARLY states "How U gonna get my back when U frontin'". Now, if that doesn't indicate a response to their comments, I don't know what does. You may not be aware of it, but at the time of the release of Voodoo, there was a whole essay up on the Love 4 1 Another website where Prince basically responded to those liner notes on Voodoo, and called him out as needing to learn what "REAL chicken grease" is. This is why the comment on "Daisy Chain" is pretty much certain to also be a swipe at D, since it references this essay.

Look, you can pretend that Prince has never once cared what D'Angelo has said about him if you want, but I think that is pretty silly. Its all just opinions about the man anyway. Do I think that he cares as much as some folks do (to the point that the entire TRC album was a response)? No way! But, I do think its ridiculous to completely ignore obvious responses that appeared in a few songs and web essays.

JediMaster said:

In otherwords...crucialexperience(lol), sdown and shut up for once.

DiamondGirl said:

Naw, I just like to shut down paranoid CONSPIRACY THEORISTS such as yourself?

JediMaster said:

WRONG, Jesse let P hear the album (Shockadelica) and P liked it and asked him where was te title cut? Jesse told him there isn't one and P was like "You have a tight title like that and you don't have a title cut to it?" So P THEN went into the studio and recorded Shockaelica. So, no, YOU'RE info is flawed on it.

Overall this isn't about whether P cared or respected D', this about the fools in here trying to say that D' INFLUENCED P when they have NO PROOF. A RESPONSE RECORD isn't INFLUENCING, it's RESPONDING. Get your definitions straight, people.

The bottomline is: NO ONE HAS PROOF THAT D' INSPIRED PRINCE FROM THE VOODOO ALBUM. It's ALL SPECULATION based on WEAK ASS assumptions like "P used Angie Stone to spite D'" or "P gave D' a SHOUT OUT." Ridiculous shit. Let it go.

TheCrucialExperience said:

[Watch the flames! - Tom]

JediMaster said:

Here's the FATAL FLAW in everyone's thinking here: P HAS SO MUCH SHIT THAT HE'S RECORDED OVER THE DECADES THAT HE JUST PULLS OUT OF HIS VAULT, SO WHO ARE YOU TO SAY WHEN HE 'ACTUALLY' RECORDED IT JUST BECAUSE IT CAME OUT AT A CERTAIN TIME? You can't.

This is EXACTLY why I'm trying to hip you cats to the fact that you can't BONAFIDELY PROVE that a MUSICAL GENIUS such as Prince needs INSPIRATION from ANYONE because there's not telling WHEN he ORIGINALLY recored ceeertain songs you hear, or he may have re-worked.

DiamondGirl said:

[Watch the flames! - Tom]

TheCrucialExperience said:

Fatal flaw my azz. As if TRC material was older material that he would invite folks for a listening session to his palace to listen too (and make a failed documentary about with Kevin Smith). Yeah right. Now who are you claiming to have shut down? Keep on with your mouth.

DiamondGirl said:

[Watch the flames! - Tom]

TheCrucialExperience said:

Dude I understand where you're coming from but you need to turn the caps lock off. Just a thought.

TheCrucialExperience said:

This doesn't contradict what I said at all. I said that P originally offered it to Jesse, to be the title cut, since the album was devoid of one. At the time that Jesse played the album for Prince, it was not yet released. It was NOT done to "spite" Jesse, as you have speculated




No, there is no proof, nor can you prove that P WASN'T influenced by D. I cannot prove my assertion that TRC wasn't inspired by Voodoo, anymore than the folks who claim it was can. Its speculation on both parties parts, with both presenting evidence to back up their claims. Ultimately, only Prince knows for sure.



While I do not feel that P was influenced by Voodoo to make TRC, I just can't agree with you that none of these folks have put forth fine arguments to the contrary. Besides, this is ultimately just suppossed to be a friendly debate. You appear to be getting way too riled up over this. Keep it friendly.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

I didn't have it on ALL CAPS, I USED CAPS TO EMPHASIZE THE IDIOCY OF SOME PEOPLE. Just a thought.
[Edited 8/12/05 11:04am]