VoicesCarry said:

that's it, you're not invited to the wedding

That didn't look like an opinion to me: End of story. No ifs, and, or buts

And I'd like to know if someone thinks "he's guilty of something", just what that something is - even those jurors who said that backtracked when asked to be specific. Second thoughts, I'd rather not know, it's too gross.

Most of the people who say that didn't even follow the trial or the full details of what came out about '93. Connecting the dots and analysing things relatively isn't even an option for some people. Of course, I don't expect everyone to be as pedantic and pathetic as I, but I also don't expect them to throw around serious labels so freely because of it.

Ellie said:

Guess what, Ellie: That is opinion. He wasn't speaking for the judicial system. He was speaking for himself.

Ellie said:

This is a forum on the internet. Are you really that surprised to learn that people say things that you consider stupid or ill-informed?

Anyway, I'm off to bed for now. I've actually enjoyed this brief discussion. I like it that people can be civil here

lilgish said:

Janet ain't that nutso, sorry.

BTW, I prefer the uber-cool Cyndi avatar to Janet's ass any day!

Ellie said:

I know, I am sticking with Cyndi for a while. The BOOTY avatar was a quick replacement for my Usher avatar (a parody) that everyone begged me to change (I got like 50 protest orgnotes - hilarious). I never got around to finding a real replacement until now, tho.

Also this avatar is great because it scares thesexofit.
[Edited 7/30/05 18:31pm]

Oh, I don't think I saw that one. It wasn't the diamond watch, was it?

Ellie said:

No, I had this as my avatar (without the slogan) about 4 or 5 months ago.

*saves pic*

VoicesCarry said:

lilgish said:

I see you saved this lil' gem.
[Edited 7/30/05 18:42pm]

VoicesCarry said:

I have a Prince org folder
[Edited 7/30/05 19:25pm]

jjhunsecker said:

-----
Co-sign. We are too protective at times. However, if you don't live it the DC area you don't know the way Congress treats the District as if it were some sort of Plantation. When people voted Mayor Barry back in office it was done as more of a Fuck You to the establishment.

Fuck Michael Jackson.....


and I mean that with all the love in my heart.

Rhondab said:

Sistergirl, I wonder why did you go there?

so true. this needs to go on the front page quotes

Hotlegs said:

Because I'm tired of black folks supporting bad behavior. MJs family needs to support him. I don't. I'm not one to buy into the HUGE plot to get Michael Jackson. Michael Jackson did this to himself over and over. Michael needs to love himself.

I'll spin the records but I don't feel that I need to support Michael the person.



As far as its sort of the fans fault (idol worship), I don't complete agree. It is the persons responsiblity to remain humble and grounded regardless of what fans and ppl are saying around you. Popularity comes and goes with everyone but I don't think its wrong or unfair per se to disconnect with an entertainer when you don't agree with his/her behavior.

VoicesCarry said:

If anybody saw the Bashir doc, and saw the scene with Michael holding hands with that boy, and DIDN'T find it creepy beyond words, then they should rush to a therapist. Because Mike seemed more "in love" there than Tom Cruise does with Katie Holmes ! The man had admitted to having young boys in his bed at various times. If you're worrying about WHEN that happened (which is a Legal question) as opposed to the fact that it DID actually happen, then that's just splitting hairs.

Ever grown up in a bubble with no sense of societal boundaries? The average man down the street would have, but he's not, is he? That's why I don't accept the argument "if it was the average guy next door no-one would be defending him". Yeah, well if he was the average guy next door he wouldn't be how he is, and he wouldn't be a target either.

Ellie said:

societal boundaries should be taught by parents. It was up to Joe and Katherine to make sure Michael understood boundaries as a child but as an adult, Michael doesn't get a "boy in the bubble" pass.

Ah yes, because all child superstars have had just wonderful relashionships with their parents and have listened to all good advice given to them. Growing up in a big family when even during the early success years they'd have to triple up in the rooms, I don't think at the forefront of anyone's mind back then would be to "teach the kids not to be affectionate and generous towards others".

Although in the last few months Katherine and Joe did say in vain that they maybe they should have raised them all to be less trusting and not as generous. Of course generosity doesn't have to stretch to offering your bed to someone, but I wish people would see it in some sort of context. Would I do it? I don't know, maybe if I had a room the size of a house.

I'll tell you the defensive argument I don't buy though, it's the "mind of a 12 year old" one. Naive and with child-like qualities, yes. Psychologically stunted with the mind of a 12 year old, no. Funnily enough that's the "theory"a lot of defenders I've come across have asserted, hen it's more complicated than that because they don't have all the known facts to look at the whole picture.

Ellie said:

ENOUGH WITH THE POOR LITTE RICH BOY SYNDROME. At some point in MJs life HE'S GOT TO DEAL WITH HIS DEMONS AND GROW THE F**CK UP. The bottom line is that it is INAPPROPRIATE for a grown man to have children sleep over in his bedroom. Whether it happened in the last decade, once or twice. IT IS WRONG. Whether something illegal happened or not, IT IS WRONG.

Okay, I agree that if the evidence did not support the charges, fine, then he should not go to jail. But that does not mean we let him off the hook and embrace and forgive him because to this day, he does not admit what he does is inappropriate. I watch the documentary and saw with my eyes and heard with my own ears MJ admitting that there is nothing wrong with sharing your bed. You want to deny that that is your problem.

Even if it was for the most innocent of reasons, It is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. When he recognizes that, I would support him.

Clearly I'm the only person here who can differentiate between "wrong" and "perceptually inappropriate".

Rhondab said:

You have a point, but some artists are very capable of remaining grounded coz they appear to have more well-rounded personalities and lives from the get-go. However, for other artists their entertainment persona is EVERYTHING through very little fault of their own. Michael,for example, doesn't really doesn't seem to know much else but the entertainment business. That is his reality. It appears "performing" was his whole reason to exist as far as his relationship to the rest of his family and friends were concerned. It appears that well-adjusted stars are connected to something positive outside of show-business. Michael didn't have much of that. Of course that's NOT the fault of his fans, but at the same time I'm willing to cut him a little slack in regard to the plastic surgeries and some of the other weird behavior.

That said I agree with you that I'm not gonna give him a break on his past relationships with children. In a way, there is technically nothing wrong with Michael being in the same room and sleeping on the floor while the kids sleep in his bed. In fact, there is technically nothing wrong with Michael "sharing his bed" with a child. HOWEVER, it just puts Michael in a bad situation if one of these kids decides to accuse him of child molestation. Then it bascially comes down to the child's word against Michael's. And now with this "pattern" of behavior established, Michael is even more at risk coz the public isn't completely convinced the he is NOT a child molester even though they might be convinced that he was innocent of the most recent charges.

As a high school teacher, I NEVER was in my classroom alone with a child without opening my classroom door. I was really, really young when I started out, so students would ask me to "socialize" with em like go out to get something to eat not like dates or anything. Well, I wouldn't do that either. I just didn't want to set myself up for problems, ya know?? My point is that even when I was just a few years older than some of my students, I was STILL their teacher, not their socializing buddy. I wasn't there to go out and party with em or attend slumber parties even though the intentions were innocent. I was their teacher, so that's the way I acted, and I really wasn't that much older than my students. My youth didn't change the fact that my "role" and place in their lives was in a different setting or context.

The same can be said of Michael. He can "help" these kids all of that he wants. He can even invite them to his home to go on rides and be more of friend. But there is NO reason for Michael to be in the same bedroom with these children.... NONE. Regardless of the way that Michael might perceive himself as a child, by virtue of his chronilogical "age," he is not. Plus because he IS an adult, his role with these kids is more as a mentor, adult friend, not a playmate. That's the reality. Neither Michael, his family, nor Jermaine can change that reality. As much as Michael wants (or did want???) to relive his lost childhood, well, it's too late.
[Edited 7/31/05 11:21am]

Well ya know, I think he's finally learned his lesson. Great post again BTW, Isel

Ellie said:

Dude, if someone thinks it's wrong, it's wrong to them, ya know? There is no universal declaration of everything that is "right" and everything that is "wrong" for us to follow, so quit acting like you're the barometer of it.

Ellie said:

Thanks so much!!! I agree that Michael has learned his lesson. I don't BELIEVE that he is gonna make the same mistakes again. I just don't want him or anyone else to be unhappy. We all deserve to be happy even though we've made some mistakes. And really money and fame can buy comfort and power, but not happiness. And I still think we as fans can be a little more compassionate. These "stars" are only human after all.

Rhondab said:

Sistergirl, I can sorta feel what you're saying b/c brotha Micheal did dig a whole for himself by his careless actions in which we can't condone.