jayaredee said:

I read the article. Lu Cont says that Madonna has a vision and doesn't let up until she gets what she wants. He confuses this with being a "producer" and a "musician", which is not surprising considering he's from the DJ/mixing school of producing. If she were to produce an entire record on her own, and write an entire batch of quality songs on her own, I might think of her differently. Madonna is extraordinarily skilled at finding the ideal collaborators to make her vision a reality, but she is not a producer or musician when taken alone.
[Edited 5/31/05 6:04am]

VoicesCarry said:

I've researched Madonna for years, and know what she's capable of. Of course, people will put image over musical talent and many jerk offs don't realize that Madonna has the ability to compose and produce. Of course she may not be the greatest at it, and she may like a hit so she'd get more professionals to help her out with it. But people like Pat Leonard, William Orbit and Shep Pettibone have all stated of what Madonna is capable of and vastly underrated.

jayaredee said:

It comes down to whether or not you believe them. But please don't call me a "jerk off" for experessing my opinion. Thanks.

VoicesCarry said:

jerk off

jayaredee said:

I know you'd love to.

VoicesCarry said:

And you are only a bus stop away, or at least a subway ride

jayaredee said:

jayaredee said:

Reegie Lucas,the guy who produced much of her first album,complained that she was taking too much control over that record.Even back then,she knew what she wanted,and she had a clear idea over how she wanted her music to sound.It's a mistake to assume that she is a producer's puppet (like so many other female pop artists).When David Foster worked with her in the mid-90s,he had no problem with giving her a co-producer credit."She earned it",he says.

DavidEye said:

I don't think she's a producer's puppet. I think she's a producer's puppeteer. But, alas, not a producer.

VoicesCarry said:

so,you're calling them liars?

squiddyren said:

Madonna was sexay way back. Especially the Virgin Tour, i remember my aunt showing it to me on VHS when i was young and i had my first erection

Then later when Madonna dropped the sex symbol bit, she turned me gay

DavidEye said:

And it's not one person who said it, it was many. If it was just Stuart Price, i can understand one being suspicious, but after so many people said it, what's there to believe.

jayaredee said:

exactly.They all can't be lying

TonyVanDam said:

Mariah is hot too, or was.

But at the end of the day, Madonna's boobs are so much better. Even at 46 Madonna's boobs are so young and ripe.

When the world blows up the only remains will be Cher and Madonna's boobs.

klhk2booty said:

I LOVE YOU klhk



Im glad you've taken so much from Madonna, which is why me and David like you so much.

DavidEye said:

I'm going to ask you to think objectively about Madonna, which is probably not possible, but let's give it a shot, shall we? Having a bunch of producers (whom she had on the payroll) sing her praises doesn't actually constitute proof of her aptitude, does it? Take Janet Jackson, for example. Now you can get Jam & Lewis to say anything nice about her, and give her coproducing credits on almost everything they do together, for a variety of reasons. You can also get the same wonderful quotes (and coproduction credits) out of Kanye West, Rockwilder, etc. - any producer she's worked with, basically. She was also the first black woman to be nominated for the Producer Of The Year Grammy. Now do I entertain for a second the thought that she is actually the musical brains behind the operation? No. Same goes for Madonna. Do you know you can even get producers and cowriters to say the same things about Mariah?

Madonna imo is a talented woman because she knows what she wants and she knows how to get it. But that does not make her a talented producer or musician - it makes her a star. I agree that she writes adequate lyrics, but they are not spectacular. I also think she has a minor flair for melody. But then so do many others, including Mariah.
[Edited 5/31/05 8:06am]

theAudience said:

so because you don't think pop singers of today's time can sing, nobody else does? its one thing to present your opinion as just that but its another to present your opinion as fact. i probably agree with you in general regarding the talents of todays acts but that that would only be my opinion. there are many, many, many people who do hold the opinion that most of the pop singers today can sing. its a matter of opinion and personal preferences.

SassyBritches said:

Did you miss the IMO part of tA's post?

Mariah has real TALANT

theAudience said:

so madonna's writing her own material and co producing her own albums doesn't qualify her for musical talent? even if you dislike her voice (which, by the way, is not nearly as bad as you're making it out to be) it seems to me to be undeniable that she is a better songwriter/producer than mariah carey.

theAudience said:

the first time i ever heard madonna was on radio. i liked her enough to spend my allowance on her record (which, by the way, is the first time i ever saw her face).

theAudience said:

hmmm, well besides the fact that madonna can, in fact, sing - albeit not as well as mariah - i would say the previously mentioned skills of writing and producing must count for something. i'm not sure if mariah plays any instruments and while madonna is by no means any master of the guitar she can, at least, play enough chords to make a pop song.

SassyBritches said:

Beautifully, beautifully said, and i ditto all those remarks.

It's sad to think that people feel Mariah never used image to help sell records. My ass!
Image was used by Elvis and the Beatles too, you people think they never had advantage using it?
[Edited 5/31/05 8:07am]

VoicesCarry said:

no, i didn't. it seemed to me that the IMO was directed at the CAUSE for the blurred lines of what makes a pop star and not "IMO there are no good pop singers today." in other words, i took the "IMO" bit to refer to a premise and not a conclusion. it looks to me that TA's making the assumption that there are no competent singers and then "IMO" is introducing why that is so.

SassyBritches said:

You overanalyze things - IMO

VoicesCarry said:

let's hope that helps me get into a top 20 law school!

SassyBritches said:

awww, cute response.

good luck to you

jayaredee said:

Good luck

LSAT is on monday at 12:30PM. start the prayers now! (and thanks for the well wishes!)

I wish i was as smart as Voices and Sassy, and go to University.

I already fucked over my business program.

I'm as dumb as a brick.
But even bricks have purposes in this world.

jayaredee said:

I don't think so. Going to university doesn't mean you're smart - don't forget that. There are plenty of morons at university, and plenty of geniuses who don't bother with it.