Moonbeam said:

So then why were the earlier songs rerecorded for 'Mixed Up' if the master tapes were never lost?

sextonseven said:

Ya got me!

JonSnow said:

That's exactly my next breakdown too. Then Kiss Me - Wish. Then Wild Mood Swings to the new one. Good thinkin', Lincoln.

And I throw in the RS Glove tracks too.

Anxiety said:

Three Imaginary Boys is a bit of a naive mess as it is. I think it benefits a lot from the Boys Don't Cry configuration. Those extra singles added make it a lot stronger and more memorable. I do think they did a really good job with the bonus material though, including most of what needs to be there. There's nothing particularly classic about most of the material outside of the singles, other than maybe the title track, "Accuracy" and "Fire In Cairo", but I find it very charming and fun. Plus, it showcases what an expressive singer and great guitar player he was from the word go. I was able to scrape together a version of the material that's quite listenable to me using the Boys Don't Cry album configuration as a template. I think it works really well.

1. Boys Don't Cry
2. Plastic Passion
3. 10:15 Saturday Night
4. Accuracy
5. Jumping Someone Else's Train
6. Another Journey By Train
7. Subway Song
8. Killing An Arab
9. Fire In Cairo
10. World War
11. Grinding Halt
12. Another Day
13. Three Imaginary Boys

14. The Weedy Burton (acts as an intermission between what I would consider the album proper and the bonus material, it almost works like a double album this way)

15. I'm Cold
16. Pillbox Tales (original '78 version)
17. Do The Hansa
18. Object
19. Meathook
20. Foxy Lady
21. It's Not You
22. So What
23. Winter
24. Faded Smiles
25. Play With Me
26. I Want To Be Old
27. I Just Need Myself
28. I Dig You
29. I'm A Cult Hero

Moonbeam said:

I'm glad you love it Anx! It's awesome.

I think it tends to get undervalued in their catelogue by fans and critics. Again, to draw another Prince parallel...

With Three Imaginary Boys/Boys Don't Cry they hadn't quite found their groove yet. You could tell it was them, but there wasn't anything particularly signature about their sound yet. Just like Prince's first couple albums. With Dirty Mind and Seventeen Seconds, they ditched everything they were doing, went bare bones and demo-ey and created the skeletal blueprint for what was to follow. Controversy and Faith built upon that foundation and fleshed out the sound. They carry similar themes to their precursors, but have a much richer, fuller punch. It seems the artists and/or the record companies recognized them as compatible twin albums too, with Dirty Mind/Controversy being released on one cassette and Seventeen Seconds/Faith doing the same as Happily Ever After. 1999 and Pornography discard any of the remaining innocence and take it hardcore. They're both about as rhythmic as they get, they're darker, weirder, more massive than anything that came before. All the roots of a struggling artist trying to make a name for itself were gone and they had come into their own at that point. They'd both go 'pop' after that. I think that, like Prince, unfortunately Faith suffers the same fate as Controversy in the court of public opinion because it falls between two giants. What came on either side was such a fully realized fresh start, that the 'tweeners sometimes come off as treading water. That's too bad, cuz there are a lot of great tunes on those albums. The upside is that they come off as the most secretive, special and cultish of their early work. Kinda just something for 'us'.

Anxiety said:

Bloodflowers is perfect. Bob has always said that he prefers to make albums that establish a mood and color pallete and carry it through to the end to really see how far he could take it. That's what he did with that album. And these 3 remasters. And Disintegration. I love their kaleidoscopic poppier albums like Head and Kiss Me, but something about the song suite effect of their unified works is really impressive to me. People usually go on about albums that cover all the bases and have something for everyone and try every style. That is impressive in a show-offy, virtuoso kinda way. But I think sticking to your guns and defining a genre leaves a much longer lasting impact.

And I had a pretty similar Cure evolution to you. I first fell in love with them around the time of Kiss Me and started buying what I knew with Disintegration onward. So for awhile, my knowledge of The Cure was limited to their output between '86 and '92. I loved Mixed Up because it sounded so fresh and modern to me ears. I remember once I started to dive in their back catelogue being a bit disappointed at first. I thought everything sounded so cheap and simple in comparison to the polished Mixed Up versions. How naive. I was 14, so I guess that's some excuse. Now I never listen to that album and am fully in love with all their early work. I don't think there's one version on Mixed Up that improves on the original other than possibly the extended version of "Love Song". I just needed to grow up and learn how to play guitar. Then it all made sense.

Rolling Stone essentially confirmed what I was talking about. SS gets 3.5, Faith gets 2.5, and Porno gets 4 stars. They said that Faith sounds like a bunch of sluggish outtakes from SS.

In somewhat related news, I just read that Robert Smiths spent his birthday hanging out with Billy Corgan naked in a pool.

GangstaFam said:

oh, who hasn't.

Anxiety said:

Unfortunately, not me!

GangstaFam said:

it's overrated!

what a great thread this is! some awesome points. I agree wholeheartedly with the early Prince/Cure comparisons.

It's interesting, after Pornography RS went into his light, frothy pop phase with Let's Go to Bed and the follow-up singles. People usually credit The Head on the Door as the first album that really incorporated the earlier goth-rock styles of SS/Faith/PN with the pop of the Japanese Whispers era, but in reality it was The Top where that marriage was first made.

That is one of the reissues that I am looking forward to the most. I think The Top gets passed over unjustly. There are some great songs on it. Yes, it's a bit of a psychedelic mess, but that is part of its appeal. Shake Dog Shake... Piggy In the Mirror... The Empty World... The Top.... Bananafishbones.... It's all off-kilter and deluded, yet great in its way. The only track i really don't like is Give Me It, but it has to be there to add to the madness that is The Top

How did i get onto a tangent about The Top?? hehe. Oh well.

I definitely appreciate the albums where The Cure creates a certain mood throughout (SS/F/PN, Disint, Bloodflowers), but I enjoy the hodgepodge approach just as well. In a way, its more difficult to get the quiltwork approach to work well. Wild Mood Swings is a perfect example. The material was there, but the execution was faulty. Cut a few of the weaker tracks, add a couple of the very strong b-sides, and change the artwork - - people would be talking about WMS as one of their strongest albums, instead of one of their weakest.

ah.... love The Cure. These reissues are awesome, it's like having the chance to rediscover these albums.... something that you don't normally get to do.

Anxiety said:

I'd be all over that shit. I guess you're just a lot more experienced than me.

GangstaFam said:

'starfuckers, inc.' is about me, you know.

Anxiety said:

So, who's better in bed, Bob or Billy? I must know!

GangstaFam said:

well, after a night with bob my pillows looked like a shroud of turin giftshop.

Anxiety said:

That's hot.

Courtney Love says Billy's dreamy. Can you confirm this as true?

GangstaFam said:

It takes a while to get his dress off.

Anxiety said:

And then what?

JonSnow said:

I love The Top. And "Give Me It". That song and really the whole album is just deranged. I've always thought of it as the true follow-up to Pornography. I know the press and even Robert have some bad things to say about it, but I just don't get it. It is disjointed and freaky, but you're right...that's what makes it great. It leaves you feeling even more fractured and confused than Pornography. And the stories about magic mushroom tea make perfect sense.

To continue with the parallels, I see it as their difficult mid-period transitional album. And to make some of the more obvious comparisons, I liken it to Bowie's Diamond Dogs and Prince's Around the World in a Day. They're paranoid, restless and dense. They can't seem to settle on one style or theme. They were trying out all sorts of new things, but still somewhat stuck in a rut. They weren't well recieved at the time. They're followed by albums that more clearly execute the goals and directions they were going for. They really confused their fanbase. They're awesome!

I'm really looking forward to The Top remaster as well. I think every song from it is floating around in demo form already, and it'll be nice to have those officially released. I hope they don't leave anything out. And a remaster of the Concert album would certainly be welcome. As would some Robert Smith sung demos of the Blue Sunshine tracks. Should be a treat!

And JonSnow, how would you make the ideal Wild Mood Swings?

GangstaFam said:

wow. i never thought about those albums that way...diamond dogs, maybe, but that's a good parallel with the other two.

Anxiety said:

You know that Ziggy/Purple Rain article you wrote? I've done that with all of Prince's and Bowie's golden period. I see a lot of similarities. I've written out rough notes before intending to make a thread of it, but never finished my writing. Maybe I will now. I could possibly draw The Cure into it too. The music of those 3 isn't similar at all, but their career trajectories are fer sure.

GangstaFam said:

i'd love to see you do that!

Great, great thread but I've been working ridiculous hours and haven't had a chance to join.

Definatly looking forward to getting these next 3 remasters in my hands. Although I have to wonder why, with this remasters series why the live tracks have been such poor quality. I have bootlegs from 79 that blow away the tracks on 3IB, and from what I understand the live cuts on the next 3 aren't any better. I think Rhino (or Robert) dropped the ball on this aspect of it. But whatever, that's what CD Burners are for...

Hell yeah I can't wait if they do remastered Blue Sunshine ... That's one of my favorite albums by anyone... I hope there's a lot to pull out the vaults on that one.

An expanded "Concert" would Be great, like whoever said. That's a great gig that I've only heard those ten cuts from. I can't wait to hear Pornography, If it's mastered right this time, then this big atmospheric album will sound even bigger. Smith has said in the past their 1980's material was never mixed/mastered properly until now.

So what's next? More than likely, The Top / Head on the door / Kiss Me. although we'll see if any of the live material gets done (concert in the next group, but what about entreat later? Full Wembley Release???? ooooo)

Japanese whispers is very unlikely to be redone, as most of that is on join the dots, and there seems to be no overlapping between the box and these reissues.

This really isn't the way I was hoping these 2 disc sets would go. As much as I love Join The Dots, I would have preferred these sets to be: Disc one- the album /disc two - b-sides, extended mixes, unreleased tracks.

When this reissue project is over, assuming Rhino and robert follow through with it, we should have damn near every note that cure ever recorded, and then be able to burn our own custom compilations from all configurations.

BUT WHERE'S KILLING AN ARAB???
[Edited 4/27/05 21:27pm]

GangstaFam said:

I made a WMS that I absolutely LOVE. I haven't listened to the actual WMS release in ages, so my version IS wild mood swings. To me, anyway It takes a bit of editing and tweaking to get it done, but it clocks in right under 80 minutes. I ended up keeping most of the songs I might otherwise cut (like Gone, for instance) in order to give it that grab-bag, almost KMKMKM feel. (All albums like that have to have a little baggage... they aren't tight, by definition. The White Album was the template for this. )

I would do the cover in a psychedelic way, lots of swirly colors, similar to The Top. If you do Want/It Used to be Me/Trap/Waiting as the first 4 tracks, it really gives it a heavy, psychedelic feel. The Return is the perfect beginning for the "pop" middle section. Then the ending feels elegiac, exhausted and regretful... kinda like the last 2 tracks of Disintegration.

Alternately, i originally did a shorter version dropping Gone, Mint Car and Strange Attraction.

First single: A Pink Dream. Much stronger pop song than Mint Car. Has a bit of InBetween Days in it, but dreamier. Play it loud in your car stereo and imagine it being introduced as the first single from a new Cure album. it works.



1. Want
2. It Used to Be Me
3. Trap
4. Waiting
5. This is a Lie
6. Return
7. Mint Car
8. Strange Attraction
9. Gone
10. The 13th
11. Round and Round and Round
12. A Pink Dream
13. Jupiter Crash
14. Home
15. Numb
16. Adonais
17. Treasure
18. Ocean
19. Bare
[Edited 4/27/05 21:32pm]

you brought up a good point that has been on my mind a bit - the bonus discs are kinda dodgy to me, too. i had to stop listening midway through the 3IB disc, and i'm a little afraid to hear what the faith bonus disc is like (not to mention i've been enjoying the actual album content too much to be bothered with the bonus stuff, aside from carnage visors).

i don't think i'm as hardcore about archival stuff as some folks...i barely have the patience for scritchy-scratchy prince bootlegs these days, so i'm SURELY not gonna sit still for iffy cure recordings. i guess it's cool they're making them available for the fans who are rabid for everything, though.

Anxiety said:

I love having this extra material, and it was fun and fascinating to listen to, but most of it I probably won't revisit again. The bonus discs for these 3 releases tell me that really anything usable went onto the albums... there is no great vault of unreleased material. Maybe that will change with upcoming releases.

Now imagine if Prince did this same structure w/ re-issues.... GAH can u imagine? heh.

smokeverbs said:

Good question!! We've got 4th rate quality live material, but not their first single? Really my only major complaint w/ these reissues.

And interesting point on their being better quality bootlegs out there. I have a fantastic show from the Pornography tour that sounds better, or at least as good, as the material on the bonus disc. My only thought is that maybe RS doesn't have access to some of this stuff.

smokeverbs said:

I can't speak for Faith and Pornography, but many of the Seventeen Seconds ones sound great to my ears. In fact, ones like "In Your House" and "Seventeen Seconds" sound so great you can barely tell they're live. Plus, they have completely different lyrics which makes them seem like alternate versions.



Steve Severin said they are doing that album and that it will be part of the Cure's remastering schedule instead of the Banshees'. It sounds like there are a lot of goodies and that they both will be heavily involved in putting this together.



My guess would be Blue Sunshine/The Top/Head on the Door, then the heyday of Kiss Me/Disintegration/Wish, then their recent period.



I'm guessing you're right on this one, but I wouldn't mind having it, just for collector's purposes. There aren't a lot of extras I can think of that they might use, so it'd probably be hard to justify it as a double disc.



I'm quite happy with the way they're doing it. There are some sketchy things included on the bonus discs, but I see it more as generous and a fun evolution of the album from demos, to outtakes to eventually putting on the live show to promote it. Plus, I'm completely in love with Join the Dots. I think when an artist has enough b-sides, they start to take on an identity of their own. And I'm much rather have an artist put it all out there like The Cure, Nick Cave, Siouxsie, etc. than try to arrange just a portion of the songs into a b-sides album. I think Dots is about as perfect a box set as you can get.

My guess with Killing An Arab is that it will be on the rumored new 2 disc Best Of that's supposed to come out once all the remasters have been released. We'll see I guess. I have a feeling that the Mixed Up remixes are gonna slip through the cracks as well.

JonSnow said:

and other artists are showing that you can clean out the archives and put it out for fans at a really inexpensive price - i'm thinking of bjork's "live box", and the recent singles/rarities compilations from nick cave and stereolab to name just a few. i'm noticing that this kind of housecleaning is becoming a bit of a trend, right down to the packaging.