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PrintableSadly,there are no "kings" or "queens" anymore in pop music.There will never be another Michael Jackson,Prince,or Madonna.All we have now are lame imitators like Justin,Usher,Britney,etc.
As for MJ....I was there through the whole "Michaelmania 1983/84" era and there was nothing else like it.Usher's current heyday just doesn't compare.Michael was larger than life. | |
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jayaredee said: Cher has been making music as long as MJ. i never said she was more talented, she just knows what it takes to remain more relevant, that's all i said Not questioning the talents of a great actress or fine performer, just the fact that Cher’s record span of number one hits (which she achieved with believe in 98) only superseded the span that was held by the jurassic, self proclaimed, irrelevant, kop. | |
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DavidEye said: Sadly,there are no "kings" or "queens" anymore in pop music.There will never be another Michael Jackson,Prince,or Madonna.All we have now are lame imitators like Justin,Usher,Britney,etc.
Thank you David, let's end this topic now | |
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DavidEye said: Sadly,there are no "kings" or "queens" anymore in pop music.There will never be another Michael Jackson,Prince,or Madonna.All we have now are lame imitators like Justin,Usher,Britney,etc.
As for MJ....I was there through the whole "Michaelmania 1983/84" era and there was nothing else like it.Usher's current heyday just doesn't compare.Michael was larger than life. He sure was. Not wanting to be cheesy but undoubtedly coming off so, but i've heard more than one person state he was 'Superhero-like' back then, and seeing as how i was among the 10,000 outside Madame Tussauds in London in 1985 when he came to open his waxwork, i'm not about to argue with that description. That was complete bedlam, i got three ribs broken.  |
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Marrk said: SquirrelMeat said: Good point. However, I would say, by your very definition, if we stick purely to the music, then the question is... Is he the king of POPular music? Popular is not a genre, unlike Rock n Roll, or RnB. It contains what is currently popular. Then I would say no, he is not the king of POPular music anymore. . That's fair enough except Prince isn't known as a King of anything and much to his credit probably wouldn't want to be. Prince don't wanna be king. He's seen the top, and its just a dream! But by walking away with the Grammy, Prince is percieved as bigger than Michael in POPular music. Next year it will be someone else I'm sure. If it went to modern sales, I bet they would both loose. MJs king of pop crown slipped off in 1996. Nearly a decade ago. Sure "You rock my world" topped the charts, but I don't think that blip in the trend makes a crown. . . |
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Marrk said: It was among the 10,000 outside Madame Tussauds in London in 1985 when he came to open his waxwork, i'm not about to argue with that description. That was complete bedlam It doesn't take much for British fans to get worked up. You would never see me chasing after Robbie Williams. | |
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SquirrelMeat said: Prince and MJ have been making solo material for over 25 years.
One is winning Grammy's, One is in court for sucking off little boys. Which one is king to you? . Hey, why you wanna turn this thread in a Prince vs Mj thread ???.... You say that Prince doesn't want to be the king, but you add "Which one is king to you" .... Try to be logic... Something that I don't understand,why do we continue to say that the Beatles are the biggest group of all times even if they don't sell anymore ?? Why do we continue to say that James Brown is the Godfather of soul even if he doesn't sell nothing for decades ?? But when Michael Jackson doesn't sell anymore, everybody say he's not the King Of Pop ??? The media try so far to search a new king of pop, back in year 2000 it was Sisqo the new King of pop, then it was USher in 2001, then it was Justin Timberlake in 2003, and then it was Usher again in 2004....
 [Edited 2/15/05 7:50am] | |
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krayzie said: SquirrelMeat said: Prince and MJ have been making solo material for over 25 years.
One is winning Grammy's, One is in court for sucking off little boys. Which one is king to you? . Hey, why you wanna turn this thread in a Prince vs Mj thread ???.... You say that Prince doesn't want to be the king, but you add "Which one is king to you" .... Try to be logic... Something that I don't understand,why do we continue to say that the Beatles are the biggest group of all times even if they don't sell anymore ?? Why do we continue to say that James Brown is the Godfather of soul even if he doesn't sell nothing for decades ?? But when Michael Jackson doesn't sell anymore, everybody say he's not the King Of Pop ??? The media try so far to search a new king of pop, back in year 2000 it was Sisqo the new King of pop, then it was USher in 2001, then it was Justin Timberlake in 2003, and then it was Usher again in 2004....
[Edited 2/15/05 7:50am] all true. |
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krayzie said: SquirrelMeat said: Prince and MJ have been making solo material for over 25 years.
One is winning Grammy's, One is in court for sucking off little boys. Which one is king to you? . Hey, why you wanna turn this thread in a Prince vs Mj thread ???.... You say that Prince doesn't want to be the king, but you add "Which one is king to you" .... Try to be logic... Something that I don't understand,why do we continue to say that the Beatles are the biggest group of all times even if they don't sell anymore ?? Why do we continue to say that James Brown is the Godfather of soul even if he doesn't sell nothing for decades ?? But when Michael Jackson doesn't sell anymore, everybody say he's not the King Of Pop ??? The media try so far to search a new king of pop, back in year 2000 it was Sisqo the new King of pop, then it was USher in 2001, then it was Justin Timberlake in 2003, and then it was Usher again in 2004....
[Edited 2/15/05 7:50am] You are not reading what I'm saying. I never said I thought this was a Prince Vs MJ thing. I used Prince, and winning the Grammy, to highlight the tumble from the top that MJ Has taken. Prince seems a relevent make weight as he is the same age, has often been compared, and....well, this is a Prince site! I'm not sure what you are getting at about logic. If Prince doesn't want to be king, fine. If you or I want or don't want him to be king, fine. Thats all opinion. Whats not logical about that? You are not making sense. The Beatles have sold more records in the last 10 years than any other artist or band. Want to go and check the sales of Anthology 1, 2 and 3 and the Number Ones album alone? But I think you are missing the point. Take James for example. the godfather refers to him being the originator of modern soul, not the leader. And its genre specific, soul. He not the godfather of pop. Even though his music was very popular. POP IS NOT A GENRE! With MJ, and the King of pop, its refering to the top of the food chain of all popular music. Its simply not true. His reign ended as Earth Song slid out of the charts nearly a decade ago. If we spoke about greatest solo artists in the history of music, then MJ has a big claim on that. But thats not what we are debating, we are talking about the king of popular music. Not genre or sales specific. . |
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Good point.
However, I would say, by your very definition, if we stick purely to the music, then the question is... Is he the king of POPular music? Popular is not a genre, unlike Rock n Roll, or RnB. It contains what is currently popular. Then I would say no, he is not the king of POPular music anymore. I don´t know. I always thought that there is a music style POP - it´s what Phil Collins is doing, Tina Turner, Simply Red..) I don´t know. I just still have that pop style in my head. But really I don´t know. But what style would you label for example Heal the world? "When Michael Jackson is just singing and dancing, you just think this is an astonishing talent. And he has had this astounding talent all his life, but we want him to be floored as well. We really don´t like the idea that he could have it all." | |
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dag said: Good point.
However, I would say, by your very definition, if we stick purely to the music, then the question is... Is he the king of POPular music? Popular is not a genre, unlike Rock n Roll, or RnB. It contains what is currently popular. Then I would say no, he is not the king of POPular music anymore. I don´t know. I always thought that there is a music style POP - it´s what Phil Collins is doing, Tina Turner, Simply Red..) I don´t know. I just still have that pop style in my head. But really I don´t know. But what style would you label for example Heal the world? I know what you mean. Tina is a good example. "Simply the Best". Pop or rock? "Lets Stay Together". Pop or soul? They both sold well as singles, so they are pop, yet surely they are in the genres of rock and soul respectively. When does "Lets stay together" move from being a classic soul record, to a pop record? When its sold a million copies? The fact is, it doesn't shift. Its genre is soul (when covered in the style of the original), but it is a popular record. So Tina is a cross genre artist. That makes her popular. . [Edited 2/15/05 9:12am] . |
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Face it, no one else is ever going to be called "King of Pop" because people know that means "Michael Jackson." Timberlake being called such on the cover of "rolling Stone" is like if they had Metallica on the cover with the headline "The New Kings of Rock". Does it mean that they have displaced Elvis? No. They are just catchy nicknames-not actual titles. Ya'll know that right? [Edited 2/15/05 10:02am] "New Power slide...." |
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I think that MJ is the undisputed King of Pop. He doesnt have to ever make another record ever again. Even in death, he should be referred to as the King of Pop just as Elvis Presley is known as the King of Rock and Roll (even though I dont refer to him as such). He has dedicated 40 years of is life to music and I think he is worthy of the title. Before we even knew who Prince was, there was a little Michael Jackson making us all sing along. All of his detractors must remember that. | |
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dreamfactory313 said: I think that MJ is the undisputed King of Pop. He doesnt have to ever make another record ever again. Even in death, he should be referred to as the King of Pop just as Elvis Presley is known as the King of Rock and Roll (even though I dont refer to him as such). He has dedicated 40 years of is life to music and I think he is worthy of the title. Before we even knew who Prince was, there was a little Michael Jackson making us all sing along. All of his detractors must remember that.
All true... | |
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....and the MJ worshippers looked at the facts....ignored them, and nodded together in appriecation of their idol.....michael, michael, michael! . |
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And we must don't forget that MJ was proclaimed King of Pop :
AFTER being the youngest bandleader to have 4 n°1 hits in the US charts AFTER more than 20 years in the game AFTER releasing the biggest SELLING album of all times AFTER making the most POPULAR video of all times (Thriller) and revolutionize the kind AFTER writing and composing one of the most POPULAR singles of all times (Billie Jean) AFTER doing the biggest worldwide tour of all times for a solo artist (BAD TOUR) etc... Justin Timberlake (who hasn't done 1/1000 of what MJ had already done at the same age) was titled new King of Pop only because his first solo album was good and sells 3 millions copies in US.... You can say that MJ isn't the KOP anymore but you can't say that Timberlake deserves this title.... U must become a Prince before you're a king.... [Edited 2/15/05 11:19am] [Edited 2/15/05 11:21am] [Edited 2/15/05 16:26pm] | |
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SquirrelMeat said: ....and the MJ worshippers looked at the facts....ignored them, and nodded together in appriecation of their idol.....michael, michael, michael!
I'm not a "michael's fan" at all... | |
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krayzie said: SquirrelMeat said: ....and the MJ worshippers looked at the facts....ignored them, and nodded together in appriecation of their idol.....michael, michael, michael!
I'm not a "michael's fan" at all... I'd love to know where you are getting your facts from then being the youngest bandleader to have 4 n°1 hits in the US charts - So what? thats not worldwide. more than 20 years in the game So what? most major artists have careers over 20 years. releasing the most SELLING album of all times Lie. According to the RIAA for a start, the Beatles have sold far more. I believe Elvis is second, but I'd have to check.MJ is either second or third making the most POPULAR video of all times (Thriller) and revolutionize the kind Totally agree. writing and composing one of the most POPULAR singles of all times (Billie Jean) Which major artist can't claim this? You never see Billy Jean top the lists of "greatest songs". "doing the biggest worldwide tour of all times for a solo artist" - In money making terms, yes. But not in attendence figures. So when we strip it down, he made a great video and made a lot of money on a tour. Who can claim the title of king of pop? Only the person currently top of the pile in POPULAR music. Besides, the media came up with "The godfather of soul" or the "King of rock and roll". But when they talk about michael they say "The self proclaimed king of pop". Notice the difference???? . [Edited 2/15/05 11:45am] . |
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Thriller IS the TOP SELLIN ALBUM of all time. The Beatles might have sold more total (have they?) but not one of their albums has outsold Thriller. No one has. "New Power slide...." |
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Heehee
Yada yada yada. His image will forever be tainted with the stupid image he created for himself. His dedicated fans will not be able to be objective, just like the people that cannot stand him aren't. It causes threads like these to fester endlessly, without anyone really listening. But hey! Here I am. I love these threads. To me he is a sad person who made great music for a short time in history (people going on with HIStory are as sad as newbies using 4 and U all of the time) whom's low self esteem taints him a bit shallow to me. Making his music a bit sadder too. But hey. Cling onto sales and that bestselling album he ONCE had. That's okay. There's a world where E.T. and him will live on forever. It's not called Neverland, but Lalaland... |
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the real king of pop(corn) "Thinking like the Keys on Prince's piano, we'll be just fine" | |
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skywalker said: Thriller IS the TOP SELLIN ALBUM of all time. The Beatles might have sold more total (have they?) but not one of their albums has outsold Thriller. No one has.
But the question raised was most albums (plural) sold. The Beatles win that hands down. Besides, Thriller is no longer the biggest selling album. The Eagles Greatest Hits has overtaken it. You have learned much young skywalker, but you are not a jedi yet.....  . |
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Marrk said: Whoever outsells Thriller?
Not that that will ever happen. 1 album, so what? Dang, He went down hill from there, U'd b lucky if he made a decent album again! Keenmeister |
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SquirrelMeat said: skywalker said: Thriller IS the TOP SELLIN ALBUM of all time. The Beatles might have sold more total (have they?) but not one of their albums has outsold Thriller. No one has.
But the question raised was most albums (plural) sold. The Beatles win that hands down. Besides, Thriller is no longer the biggest selling album. The Eagles Greatest Hits has overtaken it. You have learned much young skywalker, but you are not a jedi yet..... Hey, are you logic ??? The Eagles album is the biggest selling album of all times ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES...
Eagles greatest hits 28 millions Thriller 26 millions BUT THRILLER IS the biggest selling album of all times in THE WORLD.... 60 millions sold... (And this is the most important...) Everybody know that but YOU...  | |
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krayzie said: SquirrelMeat said: But the question raised was most albums (plural) sold. The Beatles win that hands down. Besides, Thriller is no longer the biggest selling album. The Eagles Greatest Hits has overtaken it. You have learned much young skywalker, but you are not a jedi yet..... Hey, are you logic ??? The Eagles album is the biggest selling album of all times ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES...
Eagles greatest hits 28 millions Thriller 26 millions BUT THRILLER IS the biggest selling album of all times in THE WORLD.... 60 millions sold... (And this is the most important...) Everybody know that but YOU... Could be! Where have you gained that fact from then? . |
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SquirrelMeat said: skywalker said: Thriller IS the TOP SELLIN ALBUM of all time. The Beatles might have sold more total (have they?) but not one of their albums has outsold Thriller. No one has.
But the question raised was most albums (plural) sold. The Beatles win that hands down. Besides, Thriller is no longer the biggest selling album. The Eagles Greatest Hits has overtaken it. You have learned much young skywalker, but you are not a jedi yet..... "releasing the most SELLING album of all times Lie. According to the RIAA for a start, the Beatles have sold far more. I believe Elvis is second, but I'd have to check.MJ is either second or third" Notice they said "Album" in the original quote. That's Thriller. The Eagles have the top selling in the USA-not world wide. Thriller is the biggest selling album of All time. ..am a Jedi. Like my father before me. "New Power slide...." |
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...there was no King of Pop after Michael Jackson. | |
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SquirrelMeat said: krayzie said: I'm not a "michael's fan" at all... I'd love to know where you are getting your facts from then more than 20 years in the game [b]So what? most major artists have careers over 20 years.[/b] Michael Jackson recorded his first single in 1968, he released his first #1 hit in 1969.That makes 37 years of careers. releasing the most SELLING album of all times Lie. According to the RIAA for a start, the Beatles have sold far more. I believe Elvis is second, but I'd have to check.MJ is either second or third Lie, the RIAA tracks sales in the US alone, and rely only in units shipments, not sold. Plus, every MJ's Motown albums and singles are still uncertified for Motown refused to affiliate to the RIAA. On the other hand, many of his albums haven't been recertified in years (Bad is x8 platinum since 1994.) Outside of the world, Michael is by far one the most certified artist ever and has no competition. writing and composing one of the most POPULAR singles of all times (Billie Jean) Which major artist can't claim this? You never see Billy Jean top the lists of "greatest songs". In 2004, Billie Jean was voted the #1 best single of all time by thousands of VH1 viewers. In 2003, it was voted the second most important song of the last 25 years. Otherwise, We Are The World remains the #2 selling single of all time (7.5 million copies sold in the US). "doing the biggest worldwide tour of all times for a solo artist" - In money making terms, yes. But not in attendence figures. The Bad tour and History tour attracted over 4.5 million people each, more than any other tour in history.Check your facts. So when we strip it down, he made a great video and made a lot of money on a tour. Who can claim the title of king of pop? Only the person currently top of the pile in POPULAR music. Besides, the media came up with "The godfather of soul" or the "King of rock and roll". But when they talk about michael they say "The self proclaimed king of pop". Notice the difference???? MJ was called the King of Pop by everyone since the mid-80's. The media appointed the self proclaim when he became a threat to them. Furthermore, the media does not decide who the King of Pop is or not, the public does. . [Edited 2/15/05 11:45am] | |
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There is a bigger issue than who actually is the King of Pop.
First, I just want to say that I am no longer a fan of Michael Jackson as a person but, I still like his music and I think everyone is entitled to a fair trial. So,with that said, I want to mention that I've noticed "legitimate news" sources like Fox news for instance, referring to MJ as "self proclaimed" which is scary because it's creating a bias. Reporters are not supposed to try to influence public oppinion but, every time these reporters say "self proclaimed" they are actually taking a shot at MJ. This is very unprofessional and dangerous because they could be influencing the opinions of potential jurors. If they are to report the news regarding this case, they should refer to him as Michael Jackson, Mr.Jackson or simply Jackson and check their personal feelings as to his ego or wether or not he is the "King of Pop" at the door. | |
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speeddemon said: SquirrelMeat said: I'd love to know where you are getting your facts from then more than 20 years in the game [b]So what? most major artists have careers over 20 years.[/b] Michael Jackson recorded his first single in 1968, he released his first #1 hit in 1969.That makes 37 years of careers. releasing the most SELLING album of all times Lie. According to the RIAA for a start, the Beatles have sold far more. I believe Elvis is second, but I'd have to check.MJ is either second or third Lie, the RIAA tracks sales in the US alone, and rely only in units shipments, not sold. Plus, every MJ's Motown albums and singles are still uncertified for Motown refused to affiliate to the RIAA. On the other hand, many of his albums haven't been recertified in years (Bad is x8 platinum since 1994.) Outside of the world, Michael is by far one the most certified artist ever and has no competition. writing and composing one of the most POPULAR singles of all times (Billie Jean) Which major artist can't claim this? You never see Billy Jean top the lists of "greatest songs". In 2004, Billie Jean was voted the #1 best single of all time by thousands of VH1 viewers. In 2003, it was voted the second most important song of the last 25 years. Otherwise, We Are The World remains the #2 selling single of all time (7.5 million copies sold in the US). "doing the biggest worldwide tour of all times for a solo artist" - In money making terms, yes. But not in attendence figures. The Bad tour and History tour attracted over 4.5 million people each, more than any other tour in history.Check your facts. So when we strip it down, he made a great video and made a lot of money on a tour. Who can claim the title of king of pop? Only the person currently top of the pile in POPULAR music. Besides, the media came up with "The godfather of soul" or the "King of rock and roll". But when they talk about michael they say "The self proclaimed king of pop". Notice the difference???? MJ was called the King of Pop by everyone since the mid-80's. The media appointed the self proclaim when he became a threat to them. Furthermore, the media does not decide who the King of Pop is or not, the public does. . [Edited 2/15/05 11:45am] well said  | |
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