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It's one of those things where if you're a writer you don't want to listen to other music for fear that you'll subconciously remember a melody and think it's your own. But it's stupid to not listen to other music. I haven't heard these two songs but in the case of "Holiday" there should be no case. Even if "Not Today" and "Holiday" sound similar, it's only 3 syllables in an entire song. That does not a song make. The songs sound nothing alike. In the case Of Ray Parker Mr. Lewis was trying to claim that Parker lifted from "I Want a New Drug". Listen to both songs and they really sound nothing alike. It's bull. Big business bull. |
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CynicKill said: In the case Of Ray Parker Mr. Lewis was trying to claim that Parker lifted from "I Want a New Drug". Listen to both songs and they really sound nothing alike. It's bull. Big business bull.
I think they sound a little alike. "I Want A New Drug" and "When Doves Cry" sound nothing alike. | |
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RipHer2Shreds said: theAudience said: After reading this (She's So Fine vs. My Sweet Lord) almost anything's possible...
Full article - http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/mysweet.htm tA  Tribal DisorderThat was a crazy case. But even still - the minor similarities between those two songs seem more convincing than this Holiday, Not Today business. I'd never thought of them in the same breath, and I know both very well. I hear you. But it doesn't matter what you or I think, this is lawyer-ville. No matter how ridiculous or dissimilar we may think these 2 tunes are, all it takes is 2 teams of lawyers willing to go the distance. tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm "Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all." | |
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sextonseven said: CynicKill said: In the case Of Ray Parker Mr. Lewis was trying to claim that Parker lifted from "I Want a New Drug". Listen to both songs and they really sound nothing alike. It's bull. Big business bull.
I think they sound a little alike. "I Want A New Drug" and "When Doves Cry" sound nothing alike. But does it sound like a rip-off to you? Please tell me no was claiming "When Doves Cry" sounds like that song??? |
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theAudience said: After reading this (She's So Fine vs. My Sweet Lord) almost anything's possible...
Harrison's composition used the same motif A four times, which was then followed by motif B, but only three times, not four. Instead of a fourth repetition of motif B, there was a transitional phrase of the same approximate length. The original composition as performed by Billy Preston also contained the grace note after the second repetition of the line in motif B, but Harrison's version did not have this grace note. Harrison's experts could not contest the basic findings of the Court, but did attempt to point out differences in the two songs. However, the judge found that while there may have been modest alterations to accommodate different words with a different number of syllables, the essential musical piece was not changed significantly. The experts also pointed out that Harrison's version of MSL omitted the grace note, but the judge ruled that this minor change did not change the genesis of the song as that which previously occurred in HSF. With all the evidence pointing out the similarities between the two songs, the judge said it was "perfectly obvious . . . the two songs are virtually identical". The judge was convinced that neither Harrison nor Preston consciously set out to appropriate the melody of HSF for their own use, but such was not a defense. Harrison conceded that he had heard HSF prior to writing MSL, and therefore, his subconscious knew the combination of sounds he put to the words of MSL would work, because they had already done so. Terming what occurred as subconscious plagiarism, the judge found that the case should be re-set for a trial on the issue of damages. This ruling as to the copyright infringement was upheld on appeal with little comment. The appellate court noted that an infringement can be established when the holder of the copyright demonstrates that the second work is substantially similar to the protected work and the second composer had "access" to the first work. Harrison conceded that he had indeed heard HSF when it was popular, thus establishing the second point. Harrison's main argument on appeal was that it was unsound policy to allow a finding of plagiarism based on subconscious copying, as there was no evidence that he purposely appropriated the melody of HSF for use in a composition he claimed as his own. This position was rejected by the appellate court, which pointed out that the Copyright Act did not require a showing of "intent to infringe" to support a finding of infringement. ...based on "subconscious copying" Full article - http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/mysweet.htm tA Tribal Disorder
http://www.soundclick.com...rmusic.htm The basis of the case, though, was still that they sounded amazingly alike - which I think they do, but maybe that's just me. "Subconscious copying" ain't even a defense.  [Edited 1/19/05 13:40pm] | |
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CynicKill said: sextonseven said: I think they sound a little alike. "I Want A New Drug" and "When Doves Cry" sound nothing alike. But does it sound like a rip-off to you? Please tell me no was claiming "When Doves Cry" sounds like that song??? Rip-off may be too strong a word, but you were saying they sound nothing alike which I don't think is true. I was just using "When Doves Cry" as an example of two songs that really sound nothing alike. Two more songs that sound a lot alike: When I Think Of You - Janet Jackson I'm The One Who Really Loves You - Mel & Kim I may have read somewhere that Mel & Kim had to delay the release of their single because Janet's song had just been released and the similarity was too obvious. | |
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sextonseven said: CynicKill said: But does it sound like a rip-off to you? Please tell me no was claiming "When Doves Cry" sounds like that song??? Rip-off may be too strong a word, but you were saying they sound nothing alike which I don't think is true. I was just using "When Doves Cry" as an example of two songs that really sound nothing alike. Two more songs that sound a lot alike: When I Think Of You - Janet Jackson I'm The One Who Really Loves You - Mel & Kim I may have read somewhere that Mel & Kim had to delay the release of their single because Janet's song had just been released and the similarity was too obvious. I feel you but it was my understanding that the rhythm section can be similar and the chord structure can be the same. It's only when the melody is the same that copyright came into play. |
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CinisterCee said:  Nahh-ta-dayeee...
Cel-e-braa-eete If we took a not today... Took some time to celebrate... Just one day out of life... It would be-eee It would be so nice! | |
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funny, every song in the doo wop era sounded just like the next one... same chord structure... same motiff's same everything, no one said Bo diddley... Maddy's people are just plain schizoid..but like Brother TA said,...this is Lawyer-ville.. | |
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VoicesCarry said: jayaredee said: and obviously VC was too blind to read everyone's reply Oops - as of the time I'd last read this thread, BlaqueKnight hadn't posted. It's still being laughed at by most, however. My perspective was stating the legal ramification possibilities. As I stated - its PETTY. I agree with everyone else, its fucking stupid. I do understand that it IS legal, though and not completely groundless. Madonna herself has used the "hint of familiarity" technique to sell records. She's being a hypocrite by sueing over something like this. Nitpicking to this degree is usually left to people like Prince and MJ, although I'm not sure MJ has sued over anything THIS small. I could go through Maddy's catalog and rip it to shreds on the same basis of which she is sueing, which is exactly what I would do if I were Mary's lawyer. If Maddy won, her victory would be pyrrhic one. She'd be getting calls from other artists' lawyers left & right...back & forth...hey...got that D'Angelo joint in my head now.  | |
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BlaqueKnight said: VoicesCarry said: Oops - as of the time I'd last read this thread, BlaqueKnight hadn't posted. It's still being laughed at by most, however. My perspective was stating the legal ramification possibilities. As I stated - its PETTY. I agree with everyone else, its fucking stupid. I do understand that it IS legal, though and not completely groundless. Madonna herself has used the "hint of familiarity" technique to sell records. She's being a hypocrite by sueing over something like this. Nitpicking to this degree is usually left to people like Prince and MJ, although I'm not sure MJ has sued over anything THIS small. I could go through Maddy's catalog and rip it to shreds on the same basis of which she is sueing, which is exactly what I would do if I were Mary's lawyer. If Maddy won, her victory would be pyrrhic one. She'd be getting calls from other artists' lawyers left & right...back & forth...hey...got that D'Angelo joint in my head now. And she's been through similar nonsense before with the drum loop for Justify My Love. She should know better. | |
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VinaBlue said: CinisterCee said: Nahh-ta-dayeee...
Cel-e-braa-eete If we took a not today... Took some time to celebrate... Just one day out of life... It would be-eee It would be so nice! hehe Maybe THIS is how Madonna heard it?  | |
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Madonna has nothing to do with this, she didn't write "Holiday". They just put her name in it to seem more interesting. "Madonna sues ..." catches more eyes than "Writers of "Holiday" sues ...". | |
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