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PrintableCynicKill said: "America's Sweetheart" I think has more to do with Courtney's declining mental health at the time. It's an almost-there good record, but her voice is shot.
But that's why it's so good! | |
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For me, it's all about the DVD. a psychotic is someone who just figured out what's going on | |
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GangstaFam said: JediMaster said: Ultimately, I really don't think that Kurt was behind this album. I also don't believe Courtney killed him, but that's another thread (Courtney has trouble tying her shoes. Something tells me she wouldn't be able to execute a murder plot). I really don't think Kurt would have gone for that anyway.
That sentence is so funny right after what you just said. It makes it sound like if Kurt knew about Courtney's murder plot, he wouldn't have gone along with it. I know what you were trying to say, but as I was reading along, I couldn't help but laugh imagining that.  "hey Kurt, howzabout I kill you, but make it look like a suicide"??? "Ummm, gee, do we have to??? Howzabout we order a pizza instead"?
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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JediMaster said: "hey Kurt, howzabout I kill you, but make it look like a suicide"??? "Ummm, gee, do we have to??? Howzabout we order a pizza instead"?"Honey, I really wanna die, but hell if I'm gonna let you get all the glory." Sorry, I know it's tacky for me to make fun of it that way, especially cuz I love Kurt as a person. I just couldn't help myself. | |
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Thunderbird said: JediMaster said: He was so against the ideals of the recording industry, and the idea of a "ghost-writer" creating an album for someone certainly falls in that category.
Oh, come on. If he was so anti-industry, why did he sign to Geffen, make tons of videos, appear on MTV, pose for Rolling Stone, do press for Guitar World, etc., etc., etc. He was in a band to be big and famous like anyone else. Read Heavier Than Heaven. He used to call MTV and complain when they weren't playing his videos enough. Well, I can't really argue with that, but everything I've read about him indicates that he was certainly conflicted about his fame and whether or not he was "selling out". I really think the idea of ghost-writing an album for ANYONE would go against his grain (yes, even if it was his wife). PLUS, like I said, I just don't think that Live Through This sounds like Kurt's style at all. I mean "Miss World", "Doll Parts" and "Asking For It" really don't sound like Nirvana in the slightest, other than bits of the so-called "Seattle Sound" that are present in both (and, if that means Kurt wrote this album, then he also wrote everything Soundgarden ever did).
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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GangstaFam said: JediMaster said: "hey Kurt, howzabout I kill you, but make it look like a suicide"??? "Ummm, gee, do we have to??? Howzabout we order a pizza instead"?"Honey, I really wanna die, but hell if I'm gonna let you get all the glory." Sorry, I know it's tacky for me to make fun of it that way, especially cuz I love Kurt as a person. I just couldn't help myself. Awwww, its okay. I love Kurt too, but I've been pissed at him for killing himself for a long time. I think its okay to poke fun in that way because its a chickenshit way to go, and mocking might discourage others from doing so. I'm not trying to take away from his pain, or make light of what he went through that led him to take his own life. I just think that too many people are accepting of it, and suicide should NEVER be seen as acceptable. I've dealt with depression and suicidal bouts myself, so I'm understanding, but I just think it needs to be viewed as a stupid thing. A desperate act NO ONE should resort to. Am I making sense???? I'll shut-up now. 
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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JediMaster said: Awwww, its okay. I love Kurt too, but I've been pissed at him for killing himself for a long time. I think its okay to poke fun in that way because its a chickenshit way to go, and mocking might discourage others from doing so. I'm not trying to take away from his pain, or make light of what he went through that led him to take his own life. I just think that too many people are accepting of it, and suicide should NEVER be seen as acceptable. I've dealt with depression and suicidal bouts myself, so I'm understanding, but I just think it needs to be viewed as a stupid thing. A desperate act NO ONE should resort to. Am I making sense???? I'll shut-up now.
Yeah, I hear you. But I don't even know if I think it's a stupid thing to do. Tragic? yes. Desperate? yes. But stupid? I'm not so sure. I've dealt with the issue a lot through my work and personal life, and from my experience everyone who's felt that way and/or actually gone through with it thought it was 'the only way'. There are always ways to work through your problems, so it's not EVER the right choice. But I'm hesitant to call someone's act of escaping incurable pain stupid. I guess that's why I feel bad for poking fun. | |
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i really can't get into the kurt suicide debate again...i've heard it so many times over the past ten years...would i rather he be alive today? of course. but can anyone really understand the pain he was in, psychologically or physically or both combined? no. i think that ultimately, we're all in control of our lives, and while choosing to end one's life can never be an easy choice, i'd rather live a short and happy life than a long, miserable one. from where we sit, it looks like he had everything. from where he sat, who knows what was plaguing him? the fact is that he's gone and he left behind some really wonderful music and he at least was able to keep himself alive long enough to accomplish what he did. no amount of debate can change what's already been done. | |
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GangstaFam said: JediMaster said: Awwww, its okay. I love Kurt too, but I've been pissed at him for killing himself for a long time. I think its okay to poke fun in that way because its a chickenshit way to go, and mocking might discourage others from doing so. I'm not trying to take away from his pain, or make light of what he went through that led him to take his own life. I just think that too many people are accepting of it, and suicide should NEVER be seen as acceptable. I've dealt with depression and suicidal bouts myself, so I'm understanding, but I just think it needs to be viewed as a stupid thing. A desperate act NO ONE should resort to. Am I making sense???? I'll shut-up now.
Yeah, I hear you. But I don't even know if I think it's a stupid thing to do. Tragic? yes. Desperate? yes. But stupid? I'm not so sure. I've dealt with the issue a lot through my work and personal life, and from my experience everyone who's felt that way and/or actually gone through with it thought it was 'the only way'. There are always ways to work through your problems, so it's not EVER the right choice. But I'm hesitant to call someone's act of escaping incurable pain stupid. I guess that's why I feel bad for poking fun. Maybe I just have to say, for MY sake, that its a stupid thing to do. Thinking that way probably kept me from doing it a few times in my past. I'm not really in that space anymore, but I do remember what it was like. I had to tell myself that it was stupid and chickenshit. I can't really judge anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from.
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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Anxiety said: i really can't get into the kurt suicide debate again...i've heard it so many times over the past ten years...would i rather he be alive today? of course. but can anyone really understand the pain he was in, psychologically or physically or both combined? no. i think that ultimately, we're all in control of our lives, and while choosing to end one's life can never be an easy choice, i'd rather live a short and happy life than a long, miserable one. from where we sit, it looks like he had everything. from where he sat, who knows what was plaguing him? the fact is that he's gone and he left behind some really wonderful music and he at least was able to keep himself alive long enough to accomplish what he did. no amount of debate can change what's already been done.
Well said, and I definitely DON'T want this to turn into a debate about his suicide. You make a great point here.
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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JediMaster said: Maybe I just have to say, for MY sake, that its a stupid thing to do. Thinking that way probably kept me from doing it a few times in my past. I'm not really in that space anymore, but I do remember what it was like. I had to tell myself that it was stupid and chickenshit. I can't really judge anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from.
If anything, his suicide only helped me to relate to him more. As horrible as that is, it's true in my case. I'd never been more affected by a celebrity's death before or since. | |
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Anxiety said: Thunderbird said: Oh, come on. If he was so anti-industry, why did he sign to Geffen, make tons of videos, appear on MTV, pose for Rolling Stone, do press for Guitar World, etc., etc., etc. He was in a band to be big and famous like anyone else. Read Heavier Than Heaven. He used to call MTV and complain when they weren't playing his videos enough. i think he was conflicted - i think part of him was perfectly content to be a pop star, and another part of him felt bound to some kind of indie ethic. Thank goodness I don't have indie cred guilt, otherwise my extensive Lenny Kravitz collection would surely drive me over the edge. When the sunlight strikes raindrops in the air, they act as a prism and form a rainbow. The rainbow is a division of white light into many beautiful colors. Regardless of the day, I'm glad you were born. | |
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GangstaFam said: JediMaster said: Maybe I just have to say, for MY sake, that its a stupid thing to do. Thinking that way probably kept me from doing it a few times in my past. I'm not really in that space anymore, but I do remember what it was like. I had to tell myself that it was stupid and chickenshit. I can't really judge anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from.
If anything, his suicide only helped me to relate to him more. As horrible as that is, it's true in my case. I'd never been more affected by a celebrity's death before or since. You know what, that's true for a lot of us, at least a lot of us who were in high school then. I was saying to a friend today that the Dimebag Darrell murder was the first rock death that's bugged me since Kurt. Layne, we saw it coming. I've met Dimebag, he was super-cool, and he liked my Tourniquet shirt (see quotes in my signature). That got a thumbs-up and a smile. But Kurt? Thought it was an act. After he killed himself, I posted this questioning poem using a mix of Nirvana lyrics and a good dose of profanity in the locker bay at high school. It started off (this is all I can remember), "All in all is all we all are ... FUCK! Why Did Kurt have to kill himself? Die?" and the rest was much of the same. I'll admint, I'm very insensitive to most suicide cases, mostly because I understand how it is to have it rough and later get over it, but Kurt's suicide still gets to me on some level. When the sunlight strikes raindrops in the air, they act as a prism and form a rainbow. The rainbow is a division of white light into many beautiful colors. Regardless of the day, I'm glad you were born. | |
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Thunderbird said: Anxiety said: i think he was conflicted - i think part of him was perfectly content to be a pop star, and another part of him felt bound to some kind of indie ethic. Thank goodness I don't have indie cred guilt, otherwise my extensive Lenny Kravitz collection would surely drive me over the edge. it's driving ME over the edge, and it's not even my collection!  | |
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Anxiety said: Thunderbird said: Thank goodness I don't have indie cred guilt, otherwise my extensive Lenny Kravitz collection would surely drive me over the edge. it's driving ME over the edge, and it's not even my collection! Live in Japan! The ... the horns! They're irresistible! I can't help it! When the sunlight strikes raindrops in the air, they act as a prism and form a rainbow. The rainbow is a division of white light into many beautiful colors. Regardless of the day, I'm glad you were born. | |
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GangstaFam said: JediMaster said: Maybe I just have to say, for MY sake, that its a stupid thing to do. Thinking that way probably kept me from doing it a few times in my past. I'm not really in that space anymore, but I do remember what it was like. I had to tell myself that it was stupid and chickenshit. I can't really judge anyone else, but that's where I'm coming from.
If anything, his suicide only helped me to relate to him more. As horrible as that is, it's true in my case. I'd never been more affected by a celebrity's death before or since. For me, I found myself starting to relate to his lyrics and what-not just before his death. I was going through a really hard time, and having suicidal thoughts. Then, he goes off and kills himself. I wasn't remotely surprised, because I wasn't that far behind him. At some point, I started to think about how everyone reacted, and it really bothered me. I knew I needed to get out of that frame of mind. In many ways, those records became a sort of therapy, because he gave voice to a lot of the things I felt. He obviously wasn't able to get all those feelings out of his system through his songs, but in many ways I did. (by no means was Kurt the only artist whose work hit me on this level. Several others deserve that credit as well). I guess it was just good to know that someone understood that kind of pain, even if that person was defeated by it.
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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Thunderbird said: Anxiety said: i think he was conflicted - i think part of him was perfectly content to be a pop star, and another part of him felt bound to some kind of indie ethic. Thank goodness I don't have indie cred guilt, otherwise my extensive Lenny Kravitz collection would surely drive me over the edge. 
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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JediMaster said: GangstaFam said: If anything, his suicide only helped me to relate to him more. As horrible as that is, it's true in my case. I'd never been more affected by a celebrity's death before or since. For me, I found myself starting to relate to his lyrics and what-not just before his death. I was going through a really hard time, and having suicidal thoughts. Then, he goes off and kills himself. I wasn't remotely surprised, because I wasn't that far behind him. At some point, I started to think about how everyone reacted, and it really bothered me. I knew I needed to get out of that frame of mind. In many ways, those records became a sort of therapy, because he gave voice to a lot of the things I felt. He obviously wasn't able to get all those feelings out of his system through his songs, but in many ways I did. (by no means was Kurt the only artist whose work hit me on this level. Several others deserve that credit as well). I guess it was just good to know that someone understood that kind of pain, even if that person was defeated by it. As a musician I was obsessed with Nirvana, and as a person he was saying some of the things that I felt. When he killed himself it was a major shock because I felt like he had been like a guide to me, and I saw where my flirtation with negative/suicidal thoughts could lead. Suddenly I wasn't so sure I had chosen the right guide. His death definitely helped bring me out of some of the negative patterns that I had been in, but his survival might have done the same. So as I listen to the new box set I'll be giving Kurt a big "fuck you" for giving up so needlessly. Check this song out at:
http://www.soundclick.com...tmusic.htm | |
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andyman91 said: JediMaster said: For me, I found myself starting to relate to his lyrics and what-not just before his death. I was going through a really hard time, and having suicidal thoughts. Then, he goes off and kills himself. I wasn't remotely surprised, because I wasn't that far behind him. At some point, I started to think about how everyone reacted, and it really bothered me. I knew I needed to get out of that frame of mind. In many ways, those records became a sort of therapy, because he gave voice to a lot of the things I felt. He obviously wasn't able to get all those feelings out of his system through his songs, but in many ways I did. (by no means was Kurt the only artist whose work hit me on this level. Several others deserve that credit as well). I guess it was just good to know that someone understood that kind of pain, even if that person was defeated by it. As a musician I was obsessed with Nirvana, and as a person he was saying some of the things that I felt. When he killed himself it was a major shock because I felt like he had been like a guide to me, and I saw where my flirtation with negative/suicidal thoughts could lead. Suddenly I wasn't so sure I had chosen the right guide. His death definitely helped bring me out of some of the negative patterns that I had been in, but his survival might have done the same. So as I listen to the new box set I'll be giving Kurt a big "fuck you" for giving up so needlessly. You put into words EXACTLY what I was trying to say earlier.
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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