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PrintableThe only reason I clicked on this thread is to see who the 5th one was  I never would have come up w/ Lionel Ritchie, but, I guess...    I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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SassyBritches said: VoicesCarry said: Erotica isn't mature? So Bad Girl (!), Deeper And Deeper (a song about coming out of the closet), Waiting, Words, etc. are immature songs? I disagree again, but I think you should reread the lyrics and ask yourself if you can envision Britney singing something like: It was so easy in the beginning When you didn't feel like running from your feelings like you are now What happened? What do I remind you of? Your past, your dreams Or some part of yourself that you just can't love? I wish I could believe you Or at least have the courage to leave you The title track is more intensely sexy than all of Britney's material. Even the cheeky tracks like Bye Bye Baby and Thief Of Hearts have a sarcastic sense of humour that makes for a great listen (Madonna saying "Stop, bitch....now sit your ass down." at the end of Thief Of Hearts is one of the album's highlights, at least for me). no, i don't think erotica is some kind of incredibly maure record, sorry. i think there are a few trakcs that stand out as signs of what was to come in the future but, for the most part, it is just a really good pop record with the same old pop record topics...love, betrayal, sex, etc. don't get me wrong, erotica is one of my 3 favorite madonna records. i just don't think that because it has a few "deep" topics it qualifies as "mature". I don't think you can just dismiss those topics and themes simply because they surface on pop records - they appear on all records. I was also trying to point out that Erotica was mature in comparison to any Britney record, so keep that in mind.  I wasn't trying to say it was Elvis Costello-calibre. | |
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VoicesCarry said: I don't think you can just dismiss those topics and themes simply because they surface on pop records - they appear on all records.
that wasn't my point. i don't think they way they were approached was especially mature. to me, erotica is just another, albeit fantastic, pop record. not necessarily fantastic because of some maturity level but because it is a solid collection of great, danceable, fun, catchy pop music. kinda like in the zone. | |
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SassyBritches said: VoicesCarry said: I don't think you can just dismiss those topics and themes simply because they surface on pop records - they appear on all records.
that wasn't my point. i don't think they way they were approached was especially mature. to me, erotica is just another, albeit fantastic, pop record. not necessarily fantastic because of some maturity level but because it is a solid collection of great, danceable, fun, catchy pop music. kinda like in the zone. You're just hopelessly hot for Britney, aren't you? | |
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VoicesCarry said: SassyBritches said: that wasn't my point. i don't think they way they were approached was especially mature. to me, erotica is just another, albeit fantastic, pop record. not necessarily fantastic because of some maturity level but because it is a solid collection of great, danceable, fun, catchy pop music. kinda like in the zone. You're just hopelessly hot for Britney, aren't you? you know, the funny thing is i didn't like her (practically at all) until i heard a previeew of in the zone. i loved the whole record and decided i would just give in, lol. since then i've gone back and downloaded the good stuff from the previous cds (all comments to yourself, please)
i just love cheesy pop music. i loved the spice girls, i love britney, i love kylie...its all just fun to me. | |
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SassyBritches said: VoicesCarry said: You're just hopelessly hot for Britney, aren't you? you know, the funny thing is i didn't like her (practically at all) until i heard a previeew of in the zone. i loved the whole record and decided i would just give in, lol. since then i've gone back and downloaded the good stuff from the previous cds (all comments to yourself, please)
i just love cheesy pop music. i loved the spice girls, i love britney, i love kylie...its all just fun to me. I can respect it since you admitted it | |
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SassyBritches said: i just love cheesy pop music. i loved the spice girls, i love britney, i love kylie...its all just fun to me.
I love pop music, too. When it's done right. Britney isn't my go-to girl, but when "Slave 4 U" comes on in the club, I gets my sweat on. "You Drive Me Crazy" is a jam. I liked her stuff post-"Toxic" as well. "Outrageous" is another jam. I got into Kylie when "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" became big and I fell in love with the "Fever" record. The "Body Language" LP was cool, too. The Spices' first LP was 40 minutes of pure fun.  "Who Do Ya Think You Are?" is my sh*t. HAHA!!!
..., [Edited 9/19/04 20:37pm] | |
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Milty said: meltwithu said: 1. Prince--music is sampled and emulated all over the map
2. Michael Jackson--laid the blueprint for Usher and Justin Timberlake 3. Madonna--the standard by which all tarts (britany, Christina et al. are measured 4. Bruce Springsteen--blue collar work ethic rock and roll 5. Lionel Ritchie--maudlin pop at it's best [Edited 9/16/04 21:07pm] lionel richie? try someone else like U2 or The Police or Culture Club none of three you mentioned really have any fingerprints on today's music...like i said earlier, Lionel Richie kind laid the blueprint on how to put out bland non-offensive R&B/borderline pop and be a crossover artist/producer...see Babyface you look better on your facebook page than you do in person  | |
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meltwithu said: Milty said: lionel richie? try someone else like U2 or The Police or Culture Club none of three you mentioned really have any fingerprints on today's music...like i said earlier, Lionel Richie kind laid the blueprint on how to put out bland non-offensive R&B/borderline pop and be a crossover artist/producer...see Babyface I don't think those "maudlin" artists are making any noise on the R&B front as of late. Boyz II Men's latest record tanked. They've all been usurped by the "R&B Thug" image (a la R. Kelly, Jagged Edge, Jaheim, Mario Wayans, etc.). Even New Edition's getting a harder, more darker edge, but I don't think they were inspired by Lionel. The "Thug" aesthetic is currently what's crossover and mainstream nowadays. | |
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JANFAN4L said: meltwithu said: none of three you mentioned really have any fingerprints on today's music...like i said earlier, Lionel Richie kind laid the blueprint on how to put out bland non-offensive R&B/borderline pop and be a crossover artist/producer...see Babyface I don't think those "maudlin" artists are making any noise on the R&B front as of late. Boyz II Men's latest record tanked. They've all been usurped by the "R&B Thug" image (a la R. Kelly, Jagged Edge, Jaheim, Mario Wayans, etc.). Even New Edition's getting a harder, more darker edge, but I don't think they were inspired by Lionel. The "Thug" aesthetic is currently what's crossover and mainstream nowadays. yeah, but LR was one of the first to consistently write his own top crossover hits and for others at the same (Kenny Rogers, Diana Ross, USA for Africa)...Babyface followed in his footsteps, and the torch has been passed to R Kelly, who has kinda "thugged" the formula up a little you look better on your facebook page than you do in person | |
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sallysassalot said: VoicesCarry said: Listen to a Madonna song. Listen to a Britney Spears song. No comparison. Other than the sluttiness, how exactly did she influence the pop tarts of today, most of which are a weird hybrid of Debbie Gibson and Madonna ca. 1992? Britney's done 4 carbon copy albums in a row - I don't think Madonna can be accused of that. When Britney morphs in any manner or attempts pop with actual substance, then I might see the Madonna influence.
with all due respect...ray of light, music and american life are all VERY similar records. madonna's self titled release and like a virgin are also VERY similar. britney is no madonna, that's for sure, but to say there is no influence or any room for comparison is stretching it...at the very least. I totally disagree but you knew I would,right?
'Ray Of Light','Music' and 'American Life' are three very distinct albums. Ray Of Light ---the most "techno" of the three albums,it features deep,profound lyrics and lush musical landscapes. 'Music' ---this album also has techno influences,but it blends more styles into the mix....country ("Don't Tell Me","Gone"),early 80s electro funk (title track),and more mainstream electro-pop tracks ("Amazing").It's a huge departure from 'Ray Of Light',which has a heavier sound and purpose.Lyrically,it's not as "deep" as the previous album.I would argue that this album is probably Madonna's most eclectic album of her entire career. 'American Life' ---the "least" techno-sounding of the three albums,this album features ALOT of acoustic guitar and it has a "quiet",subdued feel throughout.It also has more of a "rock" feel than the previous albums,and it contains less dance-oriented tracks.The lyrics are bleak and harsher than the lyrics on the two previous albums,with Maddy turning her back on materialism,superstardom,etc. | |
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JANFAN4L said: namepeace said: JANFAN, you make some good points, but methinks thou doth protest too much. The bottom line is that Janet is more entertainer than artist. Sure, she's had huge hits, but like Madonna, if you take away her stage/vid charisma and her creative braintrust, her artistic legacy is limited. She doesn't have a great voice. Her writing is good, in spots. We need to be really honest about this. And I love -- LOVE -- me some Janet Jackson. She's huge in the music BUSINESS. But her contributions to MUSIC are limited.
OK, you're going off on another tangent with the "artist vs. entertainer" stuff. This argument was about image and sexuality. It sparked after the initial post said Britney and Christina got their goods from Madonna. I simply said that Britney got her slutiness from Madonna, but the wealth of her dance influence came from Janet. Christina got her vocal influence from Whitney. When people think of Madonna they think of sex not art. Then that's when the Maddy revisionists chimed in. Now, I'm not gonna be a zip-dang-fool and think people don't readily think of Janet as an artist -- she's a friggin' pop star. But don't try to paint Madonna as some artiste at the expense of Janet. This whole argument was about slutiness and sexuality and, baby, Madonna is leaps and bounds above Janet in the sex arena -- she's still lesbian liplocking and stirring up controversy, while Janet can't talk about sex on two or three records wihtout being called a "formulaic slut"? Yet, we wanna be revisionists and say that since the woman has a children's book out and tied a red-string around her wrist, suddenly the Maddy/Britney liplock is somehow null and void and she's this distinguished, avant-garde, message-yielding artiste... while Janet is somehow magically the slut with golden dildo and hasn't accomplished anything in her 25+ career in show business (from Penny on Good Times to Damita Jo). The Janet and Madonna comparisons are bullsh*t. I repeat: Janet doesn't give a sh*t about Madonna and vice versa. Janet is making her money and doin' her own thizzle. The end. Nope. Not going off on a tangent at all. Matter of fact, I posted similar thoughts in my original response. All I was saying was that, IMHO, you were over-analyzing the issue. I don't side with the Maddy-ites. I just think this whole thread has not focused on the real question. The REAL question was: Of the 5 top pop stars, rank their importance/influence on MUSIC. Not music videos. Not music sales. Not the music business. MUSIC. Madonna and Janet simply don't occupy a high rank on that basis. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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namepeace said: The REAL question was: Of the 5 top pop stars, rank their importance/influence on MUSIC. Not music videos. Not music sales. Not the music business. MUSIC. Madonna and Janet simply don't occupy a high rank on that basis.
 "I saw a woman with major Hammer pants on the subway a few weeks ago and totally thought of you." - sextonseven | |
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JANFAN4L said: namepeace said: JANFAN, you make some good points, but methinks thou doth protest too much. The bottom line is that Janet is more entertainer than artist. Sure, she's had huge hits, but like Madonna, if you take away her stage/vid charisma and her creative braintrust, her artistic legacy is limited. She doesn't have a great voice. Her writing is good, in spots. We need to be really honest about this. And I love -- LOVE -- me some Janet Jackson. She's huge in the music BUSINESS. But her contributions to MUSIC are limited.
OK, you're going off on another tangent with the "artist vs. entertainer" stuff. This argument was about image and sexuality. It sparked after the initial post said Britney and Christina got their goods from Madonna. I simply said that Britney got her slutiness from Madonna, but the wealth of her dance influence came from Janet. Christina got her vocal influence from Whitney. When people think of Madonna they think of sex not art. Then that's when the Maddy revisionists chimed in. Now, I'm not gonna be a zip-dang-fool and think people don't readily think of Janet as an artist -- she's a friggin' pop star. But don't try to paint Madonna as some artiste at the expense of Janet. This whole argument was about slutiness and sexuality and, baby, Madonna is leaps and bounds above Janet in the sex arena -- she's still lesbian liplocking and stirring up controversy, while Janet can't talk about sex on two or three records wihtout being called a "formulaic slut"? Yet, we wanna be revisionists and say that since the woman has a children's book out and tied a red-string around her wrist, suddenly the Maddy/Britney liplock is somehow null and void and she's this distinguished, avant-garde, message-yielding artiste... while Janet is somehow magically the slut with golden dildo and hasn't accomplished anything in her 25+ career in show business (from Penny on Good Times to Damita Jo). The Janet and Madonna comparisons are bullsh*t. I repeat: Janet doesn't give a sh*t about Madonna and vice versa. Janet is making her money and doin' her own thizzle. The end. Wow you went to the moon and never returned..... I said i realized Madonna pulled off a stupid stunt in my post had you cared to read it, i never extinguished it. If you compared yesterdays Madonna to the Madonna of today im sure you'd find a huge difference. Even in her television interviews she's much more mature. But Janet, used to be a more innocent girl but she keeps getting worse in recent times. Madonna has calmed down 90% better than she used to act. And i realize that Madonna's worse is much more than Janet's worse. What my original complaint was that it was not fair for you to make Madonna the slut of the century and deem Janet Jesus Christ. When you say Britney was influenced by Madonna's sluttiness and Janet's style and music that's your opinion however it doesn't make Janet a saint and i'm sure Madonna wasn't the sole influence in Britney's sluttiness when Janet dresses and acts proctively as well. We weren't comparing Madonna to Janet, they're in different leagues but we were discussing their sluttiness and i believe they both had their share of times. Don't make Janet seem like she's a nun. | |
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