VoicesCarry said:

You see kids don't care what the sound of the music is, they care about who's mouth it's coming out of, which is the reason to have an image. Janet's image is in competition with Britney's and other pop whores to sell records to the younger generation.

jayaredee said:

I disagree with that. Kids just aren't immersed in good music these days. If they were exposed to better material, they would flock to that.

ehuffnsd said:

So you've never listened to The Velvet Rope or Rhythm Nation or Control then?
[Edited 9/19/04 11:44am]

VoicesCarry said:

If Britney Spears and Avril Lavigne is what you call good music, then alright

VoicesCarry said:

i agree Janet went beyond sex but that doesn't make her holier than Madonna.

At least ehuffnsd could shine some light on the Girlie show and that there was actual depth behind the sexual scenes and reason.
If Madonna solely used sex to get ahead she'd be like Britney, on the verge of dying out after 5 or 6 years, but she's managed 22 and still going strong

jayaredee said:

What?

I SAID they are NOT exposed to very much "good" music at the moment. Most of the stuff on the Hot 100 is shit. But it's not because kids "don't care whose mouth it's coming out of", it's just because they don't hear alternatives, thanks to Clear Channel and MTV. Now what was so hard to understand about that?

Britney and Avril both suck donkey ass.
[Edited 9/19/04 11:57am]

VoicesCarry said:

Meaning she hasn't used Sex beyone Sex... I have alot of Respect for VR it's what i listen to when I'm depressed, but I haven't seen janet use sex for any other reason when she uses it. "Got a nice package think i'm going to have to ride it tonite"
[Edited 9/19/04 12:19pm]

VoicesCarry said:

Janet has quite a good light on MTV, well more than Madonna and that's because Madonna stopped being so sexual in nature and isn't really as trendy as the Britneys and such.
Janet however wants to stay in the game so she has to keep with the trendiness which is whorism.

jayaredee said:

Madonna remained huge on MTV up until the last album. They probably will never play Janet again.

ehuffnsd said:

Ezactly.

And people critisized Madonna's "Erotica" to be a sexually explicit album, but it had much more depth beyond that, it was not a soundtrack to her book as some claimed.

VoicesCarry said:

All Nite (dont Stop)?????

jayaredee said:

You could easily argue TVR is a "sex" album that is the Janet equivalent of Erotica.

jayaredee said:

That got played what, 1 time? She's totally banned.

VoicesCarry said:

She's banned?????

Anyways Madonna made 3 videos from AL and none of them got played

VoicesCarry said:

I'd compare it more to Ray of Light

I'd throw New Edition in there 2.
Bfore nsync, backstreet and new kids, New Edition was the original Boy band that all others learned from.

jayaredee said:

Janet made 3 videos for DJ and none of them got played.

VoicesCarry said:

you didn't tell me why she's banned

jayaredee said:

Because she cost CBS $500,000 - the Super Bowl? MTV banned her publicly in the weeks following, then lifted the ban, but has shunned her since.

VoicesCarry said:

Viacom is a business it's goal is to survive and make a profit for it's share holders... it doesn't care about Talent achievement or Icon status.
If Janet cost revenue than she has to pay for it.
Simple as that...
Back to the topic my pick for top 5 80's artist would be

1. Madonna
2. Prince
3. U2
4. Run DMC
5. Michael Jackson

Apart from Prince's musical genius, I think he's way under-rated as a producer.
He was so fucking innovative...

1. Prince
2. Madonna
3. Michael Jackson
....

VoicesCarry said:

...and that, folks, is what it all boils down to.

A lot of the other generalizations on Janet -- her image, her music or her shows -- were so absurd and ignorant, they didn't even merit comment.

JANFAN4L said:

I own every janet cd been to every janet concert and get my bondage gear from the same person she gets hers from.
I think i'm entilted to think that Janet uses Sex for purely sexual reasons. There is not using it to make someone think. It is ignorant to follow someone's every move as right. Janet has been in a rut for a good 5 or 6 years because she got burned with the reaction to VR. If she had contiuned down this path things would be better for her, but she just went back to the janet. Formula with A4U and DJ. there is no growth in any of those albums. Sorry. My opinon of an artist i've liked since i was 6 years old. 18 some odd years ago.

ehuffnsd said:

So, Madonna isn't just using sex for purely sexual reasons? She's wanting us to think, right?

You're telling me Madonna getting d*cked by Vanilla Ice in her Sex book was a move in thoughtfulness and intelligence regarding sex. Right?

Madonna used the lesbian spit-swap with Britney to get us to think thoughtfully about sex. Right?

MADNESS.

Janet, like many of us, is a woman who experiences changes.

TVR was where she was circa 1997. It was a unique moment. She was depressed, in extreme pain and introspective (plus her secret marriage to Rene was on the fritz at that moment) all of that is infused in that LP (Special, Can't Be Stopped, Together Again, What About, Empty, You, Velvet Rope, Free Xone, GTIG -- exemplify that).

During AFY, Janet was a single (newly divorced) woman for the first time in over nine years and she wanted to exude playfulness and move on with her life -- she didn't want to get wrapped up in darkness and dwell in melancholy, she wanted to move on (Doesn't Really Matter, All For You, Truth, Someone To Call My Lover, Son of A Gun, Trust A Try, Better Days -- exemplify that).

DJ speaks to Janet as a woman who has just found a new meaningful relationship. She felt love for the first time in a long time (I Want You, Warmth, Moist, SloLove, Truly, Spending Time With You, Just A Little While -- exemplify that feeling).

Her records are like diaries. They broadcast how she's feeling at a given moment. They aren't formulaic exercises. And as for her being in an artistic "rut"? I believe your concluding statement sums up the thrust of your arguments succinctly: "opinion" -- that's all you're selling me.

Janet and Madonna are two different entities entirely. Janet's 38, Madonna is 46. If you wanted to be real about it, Janet's introspective TVR (1997) came out a year before Madonna's introspective LP "Ray of Light" (1998). Who's following who? Kill the noise. Janet doesn't follow Madonna and really doesn't give a sh*t about the woman. Maddy is doing her thing and Janet is doing her own DAMN thing.

JANFAN4L said:

JANFAN, you make some good points, but methinks thou doth protest too much. The bottom line is that Janet is more entertainer than artist. Sure, she's had huge hits, but like Madonna, if you take away her stage/vid charisma and her creative braintrust, her artistic legacy is limited. She doesn't have a great voice. Her writing is good, in spots. We need to be really honest about this. And I love -- LOVE -- me some Janet Jackson. She's huge in the music BUSINESS. But her contributions to MUSIC are limited.

In any event, it does seem as if she's trying to stay with the younger lionesses these days.

namepeace said:

OK, you're going off on another tangent with the "artist vs. entertainer" stuff.

This argument was about image and sexuality. It sparked after the initial post said Britney and Christina got their goods from Madonna. I simply said that Britney got her slutiness from Madonna, but the wealth of her dance influence came from Janet. Christina got her vocal influence from Whitney. When people think of Madonna they think of sex not art. Then that's when the Maddy revisionists chimed in.

Now, I'm not gonna be a zip-dang-fool and think people don't readily think of Janet as an artist -- she's a friggin' pop star. But don't try to paint Madonna as some artiste at the expense of Janet. This whole argument was about slutiness and sexuality and, baby, Madonna is leaps and bounds above Janet in the sex arena -- she's still lesbian liplocking and stirring up controversy, while Janet can't talk about sex on two or three records wihtout being called a "formulaic slut"? Yet, we wanna be revisionists and say that since the woman has a children's book out and tied a red-string around her wrist, suddenly the Maddy/Britney liplock is somehow null and void and she's this distinguished, avant-garde, message-yielding artiste... while Janet is somehow magically the slut with golden dildo and hasn't accomplished anything in her 25+ career in show business (from Penny on Good Times to Damita Jo).

The Janet and Madonna comparisons are bullsh*t. I repeat: Janet doesn't give a sh*t about Madonna and vice versa. Janet is making her money and doin' her own thizzle. The end.

meltwithu said:

lionel richie?

try someone else like U2 or The Police or Culture Club

JANFAN4L said:

You have to love the people who claim "Madonna made us THINK about sex!", as if it's a truly profound subject that needed even more probing. Madonna revealed nothing interesting about sex (and certainly nothing we didn't already know), she merely used it as an attention-getting/controversy-starting device. Erotica is about the only place where Madonna got overtly sexual (music-wise), and the "sex" songs on that record aren't even the ones people remember. The highlights are the songs that are actually about something - like Deeper and Deeper, Bad Girl, Rain, In This Life, etc. Madonna only did the group sex scene before "Why's It So Hard" on the Girlie Tour so she could get away with titillating the audience and calling it art. I'm a huge Madonna fan, and even I'll admit that it's one of her most common tactics. Remember the absolutely hilarious text in the Sex book (I'm sure you don't, actually)? Wow, what pretentious, utterly uninteresting crap! If Janet followed "Would You Mind" with "Together Again" or "What About", it would have been the same thing. Janet absolutely pales in comparison to Madonna when it comes to sexual content throughout her career.

People remember "Throb" and "Anytime, Any Place" over "Erotica", that's for sure. So I wonder who was really more successful with the "sex" songs?
[Edited 9/19/04 18:29pm]

I feel ya Janfan.

VoicesCarry said:

no, i don't think erotica is some kind of incredibly maure record, sorry. i think there are a few trakcs that stand out as signs of what was to come in the future but, for the most part, it is just a really good pop record with the same old pop record topics...love, betrayal, sex, etc. don't get me wrong, erotica is one of my 3 favorite madonna records. i just don't think that because it has a few "deep" topics it qualifies as "mature".