This seems to be Prince's mantra these days. Like when he was telling the story of teaching piano scales to Beyonce. And then the Rove interview when he was basically saying that she needs to learn instruments in order to become truly extraordinary.

My question is: Do you think Prince believes that unless you play a musical instrument, one can't be *truly* talented?

laylow03 said:

That's just salemanship, musicians are singers and vice versa. Intrumentalist would be a better term.

I't just as hard to sing well as it is to play an instrument. People don't think so because singing is more intuitive. I think he just meant that she would have more command over her music the more she learned. If he had no respect for her I doubt he'd have performed with her.
I wonder how many scales she remembered? She was probably thinking "Wow, Prince is boring!"

I thought someone said she could already play the piano quite well

Singers generally don't knwo much about harmony as instrumentists, most of singers are intuiitive and didn't put much effort on music as the instrumentists does to master a instrument. GENERALLY

But don't you get the feeling, especially with "Musicology" that he's implying that *instrumentalists* are more talented? I don't think he disrespects B, I just thought it was interesting how he keeps saying that these so-called artists need to "learn" an instrument. B does play piano, but she admits that she's not that good.

Generally, most pop singers are intuitive players, whereas there is more theory behind playing instruments. Singing is not without skill, but I would argue that to sing AND play takes more skill and therefore more talent.

I think what he was doing with Beyonce is encouraging her to take it to the next level via an instrument. First off this is an exvcellent question. I think depending on the singer you may have a person who has complete command of their music. For example Sammy Davis Jr. actually knew music theory and helped arrange alot of the Brat Pack shows music. Luther Vandross is a remarkable vocalist who really understands the music that he is singing too. Also we can't forget Marvin Gaye. Although he actually did play piano. This is not just in the world of pop though I mean the three tenors all those cats know what is going down.
So I guess in reality no singers aren't less talented, but it really depends on the singer and what they have done with that talent. I don't put Beyonce or Christina A up there with Luther and Marvin yet. I just don't think they have the know how, but I do reserve the right to change my mind if they take their musiccal knowledge to the next level.

Peace

Being able to play an instrument gives you a far deeper understanding of musical processes and arrangment - consider this; a musician will sit and play an instrument and could write a song, laying down tracks that can then be sung over.

A singer, on the other hand, could record a vocal, but then the "song" would have to remain a capella. There would be no more depth to it than that, unless you hired a musician to fill it all in.

Prince is absolutely correct when he suggests that singers should try and learn an instrument - it will enhance their singing and increase their musical awareness. Would you hire a football coach who had never played football?

I think his real point is that musicianship is fading fast - the more true musicians on the planet, the better. He doesn't devalue the talent of singers (unless he's outfitting a girl group who's name ends w/ the #6), he know's they're extremely talented & respects that talent.

chiltonmusic said:

great points! i agree that he is just trying to encourage those that he already feels are talented to take the time to up their game. someone says that beyonce plays the piano...how well can she possibly know if she didn't know the scales? most skilled singers have some idea of how to arrange music. and most skilled arrangers agree that the piano is vital for this.

i really want to learn to play the piano and he drums, can anyone play any of them?

Back in Princes day you had to know how to play an instrument to make it, thats probably why he's being like that, it was alot harder back in the day, now any old tacky pop singer can make a song, back in the you needed a band and you had to be able to play something. Plus, it took him 4 albums to get on the cover of rolling stone, anyone can get on it now, it would be kind of annoting for him!!!!

I take it as there are a lot of performers out there now that have a lot a great ideas. However, if they just put a little more in the music, the song would be more whole.

When you listen to most Hip-Hop, R&B these days, a lot of these songs are 98% hooks. Why? Because that's all they could come up with, is my guess. I think Prince is suggesting that if you build your music knowledge, you would know how to build a bridge, a melody, a coda, etc...

Take Outkast for example. What separates them, in my opinion, not only do they make GREAT HOOKS, they know some actual music structure. Listening to their latest, as basic as the music may be, they DO have the elements of whole songs.

I have another example:

This morning in my gym class, we cooled down to Whitney Houston's "You Give Good Love." Impeccable vocals, but I realized that she sounded so different when she was young. Her range seemed to be a couple of octaves higher than it is now. Now, I understand that the voice often changes as you age. Perhaps P understands this, so maybe his argument goes more like this:

What does a well-known and very talented dancer do when the KNEES give out? In other words, would Janet and Usher have a career when they age, since they don't really have anything else to fall back on? Even Michael, who is a terrific performer. What happens when one can no longer perform?

Same with singers: What happens when the voice changes and you're not at the top of your game? Now, this doesn't go for Patti or Gladys who will always have terrific voices and do play instruments. But even Chaka Khan [my favorite female vocalist] doesn't bring it like she used to. Would pure vocalists have a long-lasting career in the music industry? My feeling is that Prince would believe that they would be limited in their art.

I hope this makes sense...

In my opinion, the talent of the performer is far less important than the end product.

Someone like Prince who is skilled and proficient with several instruments can make crap music too, just like someone who can't hit two spoons together can make a song for the ages.

singers ARE musicians.

if you make music, you are a musician.

though i suppose some are more serious than others.

NouveauDance said:

You know what, you're absolutely right! I just thought about it. Depeche Mode, another one of my all-time favorite groups are constantly criticized for their so-called "lack" of musicmanship. They have always been chided because critics believed that they are "true" musicians, and this mark of disdain will forever put a stain on their career. However, they have created some of the most beautiful music, vocally and otherwise....

laylow03 said:

Oops, I meant to say, critics have always branded DM "synth wimps" because they play synthesizers and not "true" instruments. [of course, this is wrong]

Do singers actually make music - or do they acommpany it?

laylow03 said:

This is a great point.
Like athletes who know the game better can become a coach.
I think Prince has been an example of this.
Sure he still looks young, but he doesn't do the acrobatics he used to.
Still the show I saw last week was just as entertaining as the Purple Rain show in 84.

laylow03 said:

I don't think that was his point at all, I think his point was simply that understanding music better would bring a different perspective to her singing. Because ultimately vocals are just another intrument. Thus if you understand creating music, you can do things vocally that you might not have understood before.
[This message was edited Thu Jun 10 12:36:05 2004 by alandail]

laylow03 said:

This is a great point.
Like athletes who know the game better can become coaches and stay in the game.
I think Prince has been the perfect example of how to last beyond youth.
Sure he still looks young, but he doesn't do the acrobatics he used to.
Still the show I saw last week was just as entertaining as the Purple Rain show in 84.

Heiress said:

If one is a real, true singer such as Ella Fitzgerald, Whitney, Chaka etc etc, then yes I agree with you that they are musicians too. However, those that just call themselves singers, such as Britney, Kylie, Janet, etc etc are no where near being what I would call a musician.

7salles said:

YEAH PRINCE REALLY TALK ABOUT KNOW MUSIC

NOT PLAY INSTRUMENT

BUT IT EASY TO SHOW ON PIANO

MAYBE BEYONCE PLAY PIANO WITH BOOTY LIKE LENNY!

POOK said:

She does play that instrument just below her back pretty damn well.

POOK said:

Lenny? He can do that?

charlottegelin said:

YES IN NEW VIDEO!

OO WEE OO WEE OO!

Biah said:

Singing is an art,I play guitar and will have a go at keys drum etc,but singing is something you have or dont.I think If you cant sing then thats pretty much how its gunna stay.Though there are many styles ,high level singing is a gift.