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Printable lmas said: ELBOOGY said: Smatrtest musician of all time,i don't know but 1 of the most couragous 4 sure. And the internet move was the best move and best direction 4 an artist of his nature. Name change was funkiest move in music history and he pulled it off! His true fans never alienated him only the bandwagon jumpers!
This is an interesting topic. I LOVE Prince Music but would never call him the smartest business minded musician on the planet. This does lend itself to futher thought though. It was always my opinion that Prince was an enigma, perhaps a contradiction in to himself in that he always wanted to be a MAINSTREAM/UNDERGROUND artist. This is a contradiction, but he has successfully pulled it off in a way that no other artist that I know of has ever. He is officially the most bootlegged artist ever (over even the Beatles) yet he has sold more than 100Million records legit (having been apart of the system with WB), won many musical awards and recognitions, and has the respect and admiration of almost every musician or entertainment personality I've ever heard speak of him (cept Rick James) His ideas are cutting edge. Out of everyone of his peers from the 80's superstar group he was the first to takes production to a organized effort (Paisley Park Records) This idea of distributing records at concerts and including them in the Billboard numbers in ingenious. As for him forcing the public into buying his records...come on what the hell do you think RADIO/PAYOLA has done for the past 60 years of rock n roll. You don't seriously think that if record companies had not paid radio to play the hell out of the New Kids on the BLock/Backstreet Boys/N'Sync (they are the same group aren't they?) and Britany in the beginning of there very expired and non-artistic careers that people would have really been out buying their records. Come on it's called "Suggestive (nicely forcing) Marketing". 
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 13:06:16 2004 by lmas] Prince has said and done many things over the years that collectively would appear to be contradictive, U really have to think about what was happening at the time to really understand how those statements/actions came about. To Ur statement; '...Prince was an enigma, perhaps a contradiction in to himself in that he always wanted to be a MAINSTREAM/UNDERGROUND artist. This is a contradiction.' I have a different view; - He simply wanted 2 be out of a CONtract. Also, at his peak the tabloids amplified one aspect of his persona and painted a somewhat false portrait of him in the media -Sex has been a part of his music from the very start, although it raised much controversy, Prince was still regarded as a talented artist...that is until the early 90s when all they gave him was trash talk. Another reason to bring on the abrupt end which he did. I think he wanted to be known more for his talent than anything else, and what U call 'Underground' was his way of distancing himself from all that was undesireble to him. -"If U don't like,
what U see here -get the FUNK out." | |
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FutureShock said: danielboon said: prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!! I have to agree with you here "danielboon". I think some fans are just a little over zealous about Prince being back in the limelight. Clearly Prince is riding a new wave of "success" and I'm very happy for him. But, I'm not going to go as far as calling him the "smartest musician of all time". I've seen enough of Prince's very, very bad business moves to know that he can't possibly be the smartest when it comes to business. Musical genius - yes, without a doubt... but smart business man???? he's gonna have to earn that title. One little marketing scheme that has worked well for him doesn't make him the "smartest". I'm with Daniel Boon and FutureShock on this... Prince can be an astute businessman, when he's not letting his emotions cloud his judgement. The whole Slave/Warner Brothers spectacle is still haunting him.... The road you choose to walk in this life, is a road that leads to the next..... | |
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lmas said: lovemachine said: He is neither the most bootlegged artist of all time nor has he sold a 100,000,000 albums (although he likes to say he has) but your point is still very valid. Yes he is. and I SAID 100mil RECORDS. (singles and albums included) Show me proof on either (although the first claim is impossible to prove). I've seen people try to put his count at 100,000,000 worldwide with singles and and nobody has been able to officially get it that high (not even close). Some people even used the Time albums and Sheila E. albums and they still were not able to achieve the 100,000,000 number. So basically I want to see where you get your numbers from. | |
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metalorange said: Abrazo said: If record companies really wouldn't like this scheme (because it would presumably put them out of business) why then is Sony working with Prince and distributing Musicology? Do you think Sony doesn't get its cut from the CD's sold at the concerts? I'm sure I read somewhere that Sony doesn't get a cut from the cds given out at the concerts. The cd at the concerts doesn't contain the Musicology video and is in a single cardboard sleeve, not like the Sony retail version which has the video and a proper booklet pull-out, and this is their version that they get a cut from. Well, that's possible of course, but doesn't seem likely when Prince has a (sort of) exclusive distribution deal with Sony. What does the cardboard sleeve say in regard to copyright/distribution? This scheme won't put record companies out of business but it is another threat to their profits at a time when the market is very shaky. It could be that Sony didn't anticipate that the concert cds would be counted on the billboard chart, or that they thought it was better to be onboard with Prince and get as much as they could out of it, both profits and publicity.
The latter, I would assume. The boosting of Musicology on the charts is partly because of the concert deal. Sony is probably cheering because this ensures Musicology gets more attention and more sales, without a costly marketing campaign. It's only my personal theory, but I do think that a message that independence of this sort actually works and is profitable and still gets you on the billboard charts is a danger to them, and getting billboard to change it's policy muffles the message somewhat
You know this kind of "indpendence"as you call it (which is only true independence if Prince and only Prince decides how Musicology is distributed) is not exactly new. Many starting bands do the same at their concerts. They are usually truly independend because they don't have a record deal. Of course they don't sell enough either to make an impact on the charts. But it is a good idea for many other artists, since it seems to work out quite well for them and Prince. However, the only real danger record companies would face is with "independend artists" is when the artists under contract get the freedom to decide for themselves how their albums are distributed. That however is not the case in 95% of the contracts and probably will not be either, exceptions such as Prince provided (altho' I am not sure how much freedom Prince really has over Musicology). -- [This message was edited Mon Jun 7 8:51:33 2004 by Abrazo] You are not my "friend" because you threaten my security. | |
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Abrazo said:
Well, that's possible of course, but doesn't seem likely when Prince has a (sort of) exclusive distribution deal with Sony. What does the cardboard sleeve say in regard to copyright/distribution?
Sony distrubutes the retail version but Prince himself distributes the concert giveaways, therefore I don't see why they would get anything out of it since it is, as you say, a distribution deal, and as I said, I'm sure I read on the Org a long time back that they ONLY get a chunk of the retail version. I don't have the cardboard sleeve version so I don't know exactly what is printed on there, but I have read it is very simple, just the tracklist. The latter, I would assume. The boosting of Musicology on the charts is partly because of the concert deal. Sony is probably cheering because this ensures Musicology gets more attention and more sales, without a costly marketing campaign.
I think this could be yet another example of the record business's main problem at the moment - short-sightedness. They sign and promote acts that they think will make money instantly, and as soon as their popularity fades, they drop them. They don't want to put the time in to develop and support acts long-term anymore. With Prince, it could be a case of they jumped on board because they saw the instant profit potential - but long-term, they could be shooting themselves in the foot, if artists inspired by Prince start demanding 1 album deals and the right to sell albums through their own outlets such as websites and concerts. You know this kind of "indpendence"as you call it (which is only true independence if Prince and only Prince decides how Musicology is distributed) is not exactly new. Many starting bands do the same at their concerts. They are usually truly independend because they don't have a record deal. Of course they don't sell enough either to make an impact on the charts.
Well, Prince HAS control over how it is distributed! He gives it away at concerts and on his website, and he's got Sony selling it for him in record stores - sounds like control to me! The bands that sell their own cds do this usually because there is no other outlet for them until they are signed - in fact distributing cds at concerts is a way of promotion to get their name out so that they WILL be signed! | |
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ELBOOGY said: danielboon said: prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!! sorry i personally know of hardcore p fans who travelled all over europe to c p, bought every release on day of release etc who just simply got fed up with all that was going on and just gave up on him these peeps were not bandwagon jumpers honestly there are peeps out there who get fed up with artists and move on !!!. an example .. my cousin got pissed with the free album at midnight , turned out to b instumental xpectation , i liked it cuz didnt, he also didnt like the shoddy vegas dvd , i'm with cuz on this one! quality for a dvd was shocking !!!, then we got news again i liked news !!! my cuzzin thought it was shit ! he said to me danny the wee mans lost it i'll still go c him in concert ocassionally but the only good thing hes done in yrs is trc i've moved on ,.... my cuz just got fed up with p and moved on , it does happen ! ps cuz thinks musicology is a total embarresment !!! i dont agree but i would say its average ! i,m still with p , waiting for the next trc or atwiad !! | |
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Prince would win either way...if he had all the strategy to put his MUSIC out there the way he wanted, people would see & he'd beat so many, so people better recognize...put the ASTERISK, he's SPECIAL. [This message was edited Mon Jun 7 18:28:09 2004 by Starmist7] | |
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danielboon said: ELBOOGY said: Smatrtest musician of all time,i don't know but 1 of the most couragous 4 sure. And the internet move was the best move and best direction 4 an artist of his nature. Name change was funkiest move in music history and he pulled it off! His true fans never alienated him only the bandwagon jumpers!
sorry i personally know of hardcore p fans who travelled all over europe to c p, bought every release on day of release etc who just simply got fed up with all that was going on and just gave up on him these peeps were not bandwagon jumpers honestly there are peeps out there who get fed up with artists and move on !!!. an example .. my cousin got pissed with the free album at midnight , turned out to b instumental xpectation , i liked it cuz didnt, he also didnt like the shoddy vegas dvd , i'm with cuz on this one! quality for a dvd was shocking !!!, then we got news again i liked news !!! my cuzzin thought it was shit ! he said to me danny the wee mans lost it i'll still go c him in concert ocassionally but the only good thing hes done in yrs is trc i've moved on ,.... my cuz just got fed up with p and moved on , it does happen ! ps cuz thinks musicology is a total embarresment !!! i dont agree but i would say its average ! i,m still with p , waiting for the next trc or atwiad !! U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY! | |
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lovemachine said: lmas said: Yes he is. and I SAID 100mil RECORDS. (singles and albums included) Show me proof on either (although the first claim is impossible to prove). I've seen people try to put his count at 100,000,000 worldwide with singles and and nobody has been able to officially get it that high (not even close). Some people even used the Time albums and Sheila E. albums and they still were not able to achieve the 100,000,000 number. So basically I want to see where you get your numbers from. just do the numbers worldwide he sold almost 65mil LPs from 1978-1992 alone incluse various singles that were almost 1 million (or more) sellers -LRC, When Dove, Let's go, PR, Kiss, Ugotthelook, Icould/Hot Thing, Batdance, Theives, Gett Off, Cream, 7...etc this is just up to 1992 Oh WTF does it matter I didn't make one red dime!!!!! [This message was edited Mon Jun 7 21:58:28 2004 by lmas] | |
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