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Thread started 06/04/04 9:21pm

EROTICCITYNPG

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Prince's CD marketing strategy throws Billboard charts for a loop

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi...7054M1.DTL

Prince's CD marketing strategy throws Billboard charts for a loop

Randy Lewis, Los Angeles Times
Friday, June 4, 2004
-----



Should Prince's new "Musicology" go down in the pop annals as "The Asterisk Album"?

It has earned one on a couple of fronts -- first for the sales boost the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame musician got by distributing a copy of his latest CD to everyone attending his current concert tour, which just wrapped up its first visit to San Jose's HP Pavilion -- and second for prompting Billboard magazine this week to change its sales chart policy because of that marketing strategy.

"Musicology" is Prince's hottest album in years, partially because Nielsen SoundScan, whose figures are used by Billboard to determine chart position, has counted as "sales" the more than 150,000 copies given to fans who have attended his concert tour since the album was released.

Prince's tour organizers have maintained that they factored the price of a CD into ticket prices, which have ranged from $49.50 to $75 in most markets, but some in the music industry argued that counting those CDs as sales did not accurately reflect consumer interest in the CD alone.

Still, Nielsen agreed to include all CDs distributed at concerts since the album's April 20 release as part of its "Musicology" sales total. Of the 633,000 copies reported sold by Nielsen, approximately 25 percent were distributed at the shows, Billboard has reported.

With other musicians vowing to follow Prince's lead, Billboard has revised its policies regarding concert ticket/CD packages, and Nielsen has gone along with the change.

To have CDs distributed at concerts counted as sales, musicians will now be required to offer fans different ticket prices, one including the album and one not.

"While there were some label executives who did give a green light to the original policy in regard to the Prince album, a number said they would like the policy better if it included a provision where concertgoers could opt in or opt out of buying the album," Billboard charts director Geoff Mayfield said Tuesday.

Prince's album will be exempt from the new policy, meaning all additional CDs distributed at his concerts will continue to be counted as sales.

"That arrangement was already in place, so we're not going change midstream," Mayfield said.

Will Billboard charts take a page from baseball's home run record books and actually put an asterisk next to "Musicology" because its weekly sales total has benefited from the marketing strategy?

"No," Mayfield says. "We're not into making Roger Maris feel small."
Erotic City Come Alive...!!!

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Reply #1 posted 06/05/04 12:58am

poetbear68

Two things occur to me from reading this article:

First, I agree with the buy-in option for concert sales, but doesn't every Prince CD made deserve to be counted? Relatedly, again, this totally aligns to what Prince was vying for in the nineties, that is, to have control of the master recordings, to do with as Prince sees fit, not the record company? Who is the consumer paying to listen to - the record company that distributes Prince, or Prince himself? (Used successfully, a pawn can put a king in checkmate, and this strategy is the pawn here.)

Second, Prince is undoubtedly making himself REAL popular with other musicians out there. Talk about knowing how to win friends and influence people!
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Reply #2 posted 06/05/04 1:16am

Zelaira

He's The Smartest MUsician Of ALL TIME.... I Have loved his way for like FOREVER.... I am sooo Glad actually Overjoyed that well the Rest of the world Actually is Acknowledging whom I Always Knew as Great. biggrin
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Reply #3 posted 06/05/04 3:40am

Chico319

EROTICCITYNPG said:


Prince's tour organizers have maintained that they factored the price of a CD into ticket prices, which have ranged from $49.50 to $75 in most markets, but some in the music industry argued that counting those CDs as sales did not accurately reflect consumer interest in the CD alone.



lol Yeah..they have no interest. But are attending his concerts in droves!!! falloff
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Reply #4 posted 06/05/04 5:29am

laylow03

The bottom line for me is that the industry is so relunctant to acknowledge Prince when he's successful. They kick him when he's down and when he gets back up again, they try HARD to kick him again!

I just don't think that the industry wants P to be successful. So you mean to tell me that all those fans who go see Prince in concert don't want the album? Go figure.... confused
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Reply #5 posted 06/05/04 5:42am

FutureShock

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.
"You've got to believe in something... why not believe in me?"
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Reply #6 posted 06/05/04 6:08am

metalorange

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FutureShock said:

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.


I think Billboard changing it's policy is in direct pressure from the record companies. Prince is demonstrating that it is possible to successfully sell your albums directly to the fans, cutting out the middle-man of the record company, and that is a message that is dangerous to the record companies. They don't want artists on their roll-call to know that Prince's business model, of this cd giveaway and his website, actually works because it could ultimately put them out of business. That's why they try hard to put him down and make out what he is doing is 'eccentric', like a smear campaign.
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Reply #7 posted 06/05/04 7:47am

rainbowchild

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Good for them!! Go Prince...keep them scrambling!! cool
"Just like the sun, the Rainbow Children rise."



"We had fun, didn't we?"
-Prince (1958-2016) 4ever in my life
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Reply #8 posted 06/05/04 9:25am

ELBOOGY

metalorange said:

FutureShock said:

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.


I think Billboard changing it's policy is in direct pressure from the record companies. Prince is demonstrating that it is possible to successfully sell your albums directly to the fans, cutting out the middle-man of the record company, and that is a message that is dangerous to the record companies. They don't want artists on their roll-call to know that Prince's business model, of this cd giveaway and his website, actually works because it could ultimately put them out of business. That's why they try hard to put him down and make out what he is doing is 'eccentric', like a smear campaign.
I agree with everything u said. I also think that the record company's are pressuring Billboard 2 change the policy bcuz they want 2 keep bizness as usual and keep in control! P represents a rebel mentality that they don't want 2 promote and that is basically y P was ridiculed and a lot of his mid 90's work has been panned.P's new stradegy worked and have the record bizness on it's heels.
U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY!
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Reply #9 posted 06/05/04 9:41am

CandaceS

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cool Glad to see that after all these years, Prince is STILL stirring up controversy AND tweaking the nose of the record industry!! nod headbang thumbs up!
"I would say that Prince's top thirty percent is great. Of that thirty percent, I'll bet the public has heard twenty percent of it." - Susan Rogers, "Hunting for Prince's Vault", BBC, 2015
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Reply #10 posted 06/05/04 10:58am

danielboon

Zelaira said:

He's The Smartest MUsician Of ALL TIME.... I Have loved his way for like FOREVER.... I am sooo Glad actually Overjoyed that well the Rest of the world Actually is Acknowledging whom I Always Knew as Great. biggrin


prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!
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Reply #11 posted 06/05/04 12:22pm

FutureShock

danielboon said:

Zelaira said:

He's The Smartest MUsician Of ALL TIME.... I Have loved his way for like FOREVER.... I am sooo Glad actually Overjoyed that well the Rest of the world Actually is Acknowledging whom I Always Knew as Great. biggrin


prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!


I have to agree with you here "danielboon". I think some fans are just a little over zealous about Prince being back in the limelight. Clearly Prince is riding a new wave of "success" and I'm very happy for him. But, I'm not going to go as far as calling him the "smartest musician of all time". I've seen enough of Prince's very, very bad business moves to know that he can't possibly be the smartest when it comes to business. Musical genius - yes, without a doubt... but smart business man???? he's gonna have to earn that title. One little marketing scheme that has worked well for him doesn't make him the "smartest".
"You've got to believe in something... why not believe in me?"
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Reply #12 posted 06/05/04 1:48pm

lovemachine

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FutureShock said:

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.


The problem with this is that by end of the tour he will have given away WAY more then he sold by maybe a 2 to 1 margin unless he finds a hit soon.
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Reply #13 posted 06/05/04 5:00pm

FutureShock

lovemachine said:

FutureShock said:

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.


The problem with this is that by end of the tour he will have given away WAY more then he sold by maybe a 2 to 1 margin unless he finds a hit soon.


But see, that's where I still have to respectfully disagree with you. Prince isn't "giving away" anything. The CD is being sold. My point is that it shouldn't matter to Billboard whether it is being sold through retail outlets, on-line, or via a concert ticket. A sale is a sale.
"You've got to believe in something... why not believe in me?"
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Reply #14 posted 06/05/04 5:09pm

lovemachine

avatar

FutureShock said:

lovemachine said:



The problem with this is that by end of the tour he will have given away WAY more then he sold by maybe a 2 to 1 margin unless he finds a hit soon.


But see, that's where I still have to respectfully disagree with you. Prince isn't "giving away" anything. The CD is being sold. My point is that it shouldn't matter to Billboard whether it is being sold through retail outlets, on-line, or via a concert ticket. A sale is a sale.



So you think that given the choice the people who are going to see 9 shows in the New York area would be purchasing 9 extra copies?


.
[This message was edited Sat Jun 5 21:30:02 2004 by lovemachine]
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Reply #15 posted 06/05/04 7:04pm

pluvv2002

FutureShock said:

danielboon said:



prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!


I have to agree with you here "danielboon". I think some fans are just a little over zealous about Prince being back in the limelight. Clearly Prince is riding a new wave of "success" and I'm very happy for him. But, I'm not going to go as far as calling him the "smartest musician of all time". I've seen enough of Prince's very, very bad business moves to know that he can't possibly be the smartest when it comes to business. Musical genius - yes, without a doubt... but smart business man???? he's gonna have to earn that title. One little marketing scheme that has worked well for him doesn't make him the "smartest".
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Reply #16 posted 06/05/04 7:11pm

pluvv2002

FutureShock said:[quote]

danielboon said:



prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!


I have to agree with you here "danielboon". I think some fans are just a little over zealous about Prince being back in the limelight. Clearly Prince is riding a new wave of "success" and I'm very happy for him. But, I'm not going to go as far as calling him the "smartest musician of all time". I've seen enough of Prince's very, very bad business moves to know that he can't possibly be the smartest when it comes to business. Musical genius - yes, without a doubt... but smart business man???? he's gonna have to earn that title. One little marketing
scheme that has worked well for him doesn't make him the "smartest".[/quot

I have to say i think prince made a genious move with the album with the ticket sales...When people are downloading music illegally these days, The artist , especially since P is free, should be able to "force" there music on the consumer with no one (i.e. the man) telling what to do, AND he keeps his master recordings w/distribution from a major label. Now that sounds smart to me. And as for him changing his name, We all know why he did that, and it served its purpose , hes now free, and when ur free u can do things like release instrumental only albums thru the internet only.....GOOO PRINCE!!

cant wait til SAN ANTONIO, AND DALLAS!!
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Reply #17 posted 06/05/04 7:12pm

pluvv2002

FutureShock said:[quote]

danielboon said:



prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!


I have to agree with you here "danielboon". I think some fans are just a little over zealous about Prince being back in the limelight. Clearly Prince is riding a new wave of "success" and I'm very happy for him. But, I'm not going to go as far as calling him the "smartest musician of all time". I've seen enough of Prince's very, very bad business moves to know that he can't possibly be the smartest when it comes to business. Musical genius - yes, without a doubt... but smart business man???? he's gonna have to earn that title. One little marketing
scheme that has worked well for him doesn't make him the "smartest".[/quot

I have to say i think prince made a genious move with the album with the ticket sales...When people are downloading music illegally these days, The artist , especially since P is free, should be able to "force" there music on the consumer with no one (i.e. the man) telling what to do, AND he keeps his master recordings w/distribution from a major label. Now that sounds smart to me. And as for him changing his name, We all know why he did that, and it served its purpose , hes now free, and when ur free u can do things like release instrumental only albums thru the internet only.....GOOO PRINCE!!

cant wait til SAN ANTONIO, AND DALLAS!!
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Reply #18 posted 06/05/04 7:14pm

chiltonmusic

avatar

lovemachine said:

FutureShock said:



But see, that's where I still have to respectfully disagree with you. Prince isn't "giving away" anything. The CD is being sold. My point is that it shouldn't matter to Billboard whether it is being sold through retail outlets, on-line, or via a concert ticket. A sale is a sale.



So you think that given the choice the people who are going to see 9 shows in the New York area would be purchasing 9 extra copies given the choice?


Well to me I think I that the ticket and the CD should be one and should never be seperate. I love this. These are legitimate sales that shouldn't be denied. I believe it is a revolution. We all read the trades and right now you see how the majors are struggling to stay relevant in the digital age. One the ways that they do this is by ushering in newer more inferior talent and pushing older more seasoned vets of studio and stage out the door. Prince's plan shows you the power of his relevance. This puts the power back in musicians hands. You can't tell me the major labels didn't push for soundscan and Nielson to revise this. Otherwise they could be pushed out the door. And I am sure Prince would much rather people who go to 9 shows give those paid for CD's away as oppossed to no one ever hearing them or no one ever having bought them.
Let's be real compared to Madonna ticket prices Prince is a steal. I am half expecting Madonna to have CD's and DVD's because her prices are so high!!!
Peace
THE CARDINAL HAS SPOKEN!!!
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Reply #19 posted 06/05/04 8:14pm

suzysue

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chiltonmusic said:

lovemachine said:




So you think that given the choice the people who are going to see 9 shows in the New York area would be purchasing 9 extra copies given the choice?


Well to me I think I that the ticket and the CD should be one and should never be seperate. I love this. These are legitimate sales that shouldn't be denied. I believe it is a revolution. We all read the trades and right now you see how the majors are struggling to stay relevant in the digital age. One the ways that they do this is by ushering in newer more inferior talent and pushing older more seasoned vets of studio and stage out the door. Prince's plan shows you the power of his relevance. This puts the power back in musicians hands. You can't tell me the major labels didn't push for soundscan and Nielson to revise this. Otherwise they could be pushed out the door. And I am sure Prince would much rather people who go to 9 shows give those paid for CD's away as oppossed to no one ever hearing them or no one ever having bought them.
Let's be real compared to Madonna ticket prices Prince is a steal. I am half expecting Madonna to have CD's and DVD's because her prices are so high!!!
Peace



I think Prince is very smart for what he's done with his CDs. The price is factored into the ticket sales, and those that complain should just try to remember that they didn't think of it first. He is a musical genius and will always be thought of that way (as well as very sexy), but that should not sway his abilities. He did the whole internet music thing because it was a smart thing to do. He's always been in the limelight, but people don't recognize him until something happens. True some people don't understand his music, but he doesn't care because he's doing what he loves.
My kitty wants to play...
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Reply #20 posted 06/06/04 12:04am

FutureShock

lovemachine said:

FutureShock said:



But see, that's where I still have to respectfully disagree with you. Prince isn't "giving away" anything. The CD is being sold. My point is that it shouldn't matter to Billboard whether it is being sold through retail outlets, on-line, or via a concert ticket. A sale is a sale.



So you think that given the choice the people who are going to see 9 shows in the New York area would be purchasing 9 extra copies?


.
[This message was edited Sat Jun 5 21:30:02 2004 by lovemachine]


Again, you're missing my point. I'm not trying to guage the reasons behind why someone would or would not purchase the cd multiple times. Personally I downloaded the cd on-line, knowing full well that I would purchase a hard copy in the wrecka stow, and then receive yet another copy when I attented the show. Using that example, I can only speak for myself in saying YES I WILLING CHOSE TO PURCHASE MUSICOLOGY 3 TIMES! What I'm trying to tell you all, though, is the reasons behind why I may choose to purchase the album multiple times is really irrelavant in terms of counting the sale. The fact of the matter is that it's still a sale and therefore should be counted.

Using your logic, one could also question the rationale behind why someone would choose to go see the same damn show 9 times! Cause they can and cause the feel like it! But so what? Should we say to those die hard fans that since you've already seen the show once, we're only going to count your first show towards the overall gross revenue for the Musicology Tour??? Of course not! And the same holds true for the multiple sales of Musicology.
"You've got to believe in something... why not believe in me?"
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Reply #21 posted 06/06/04 11:13am

ELBOOGY

danielboon said:

Zelaira said:

He's The Smartest MUsician Of ALL TIME.... I Have loved his way for like FOREVER.... I am sooo Glad actually Overjoyed that well the Rest of the world Actually is Acknowledging whom I Always Knew as Great. biggrin


prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!
Smatrtest musician of all time,i don't know but 1 of the most couragous 4 sure. And the internet move was the best move and best direction 4 an artist of his nature. Name change was funkiest move in music history and he pulled it off! His true fans never alienated him only the bandwagon jumpers!
U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY!
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Reply #22 posted 06/06/04 12:40pm

Abrazo

metalorange said:

FutureShock said:

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.


I think Billboard changing it's policy is in direct pressure from the record companies. Prince is demonstrating that it is possible to successfully sell your albums directly to the fans, cutting out the middle-man of the record company, and that is a message that is dangerous to the record companies. They don't want artists on their roll-call to know that Prince's business model, of this cd giveaway and his website, actually works because it could ultimately put them out of business. That's why they try hard to put him down and make out what he is doing is 'eccentric', like a smear campaign.


If record companies really wouldn't like this scheme (because it would presumably put them out of business) why then is Sony working with Prince and distributing Musicology?

Do you think Sony doesn't get its cut from the CD's sold at the concerts?
You are not my "friend" because you threaten my security.
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Reply #23 posted 06/06/04 1:03pm

lmas

avatar

ELBOOGY said:

danielboon said:



prince is not !!! the smartest musician of all time , is this the same guy who, almost sunk without trace from this planet with internet only instrumental albums ? who alienated his fan base with stupid name change ETC???, for the record i love news and xpectation but it was not a smart move when it comes to being successfull. granted musicology has him in the limelite big time , but who's fault was it he left the limelite = prince/ symbol/tora tora/ slave/ bla bla bla !!!
Smatrtest musician of all time,i don't know but 1 of the most couragous 4 sure. And the internet move was the best move and best direction 4 an artist of his nature. Name change was funkiest move in music history and he pulled it off! His true fans never alienated him only the bandwagon jumpers!




This is an interesting topic. I LOVE Prince Music but would never call him the smartest business minded musician on the planet. This does lend itself to futher thought though. It was always my opinion that Prince was an enigma, perhaps a contradiction in to himself in that he always wanted to be a MAINSTREAM/UNDERGROUND artist. This is a contradiction, but he has successfully pulled it off in a way that no other artist that I know of has ever. He is officially the most bootlegged artist ever (over even the Beatles) yet he has sold more than 100Million records legit (having been apart of the system with WB), won many musical awards and recognitions, and has the respect and admiration of almost every musician or entertainment personality I've ever heard speak of him (cept Rick James) His ideas are cutting edge. Out of everyone of his peers from the 80's superstar group he was the first to takes production to a organized effort (Paisley Park Records) This idea of distributing records at concerts and including them in the Billboard numbers in ingenious. As for him forcing the public into buying his records...come on what the hell do you think RADIO/PAYOLA has done for the past 60 years of rock n roll.

You don't seriously think that if record companies had not paid radio to play the hell out of the New Kids on the BLock/Backstreet Boys/N'Sync (they are the same group aren't they?) and Britany in the beginning of there very expired and non-artistic careers that people would have really been out buying their records. Come on it's called "Suggestive (nicely forcing) Marketing". wink
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 13:06:16 2004 by lmas]
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Reply #24 posted 06/06/04 3:10pm

lovemachine

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lmas said:

ELBOOGY said:

Smatrtest musician of all time,i don't know but 1 of the most couragous 4 sure. And the internet move was the best move and best direction 4 an artist of his nature. Name change was funkiest move in music history and he pulled it off! His true fans never alienated him only the bandwagon jumpers!




This is an interesting topic. I LOVE Prince Music but would never call him the smartest business minded musician on the planet. This does lend itself to futher thought though. It was always my opinion that Prince was an enigma, perhaps a contradiction in to himself in that he always wanted to be a MAINSTREAM/UNDERGROUND artist. This is a contradiction, but he has successfully pulled it off in a way that no other artist that I know of has ever. He is officially the most bootlegged artist ever (over even the Beatles) yet he has sold more than 100Million records legit (having been apart of the system with WB), won many musical awards and recognitions, and has the respect and admiration of almost every musician or entertainment personality I've ever heard speak of him (cept Rick James) His ideas are cutting edge. Out of everyone of his peers from the 80's superstar group he was the first to takes production to a organized effort (Paisley Park Records) This idea of distributing records at concerts and including them in the Billboard numbers in ingenious. As for him forcing the public into buying his records...come on what the hell do you think RADIO/PAYOLA has done for the past 60 years of rock n roll.

You don't seriously think that if record companies had not paid radio to play the hell out of the New Kids on the BLock/Backstreet Boys/N'Sync (they are the same group aren't they?) and Britany in the beginning of there very expired and non-artistic careers that people would have really been out buying their records. Come on it's called "Suggestive (nicely forcing) Marketing". wink
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 13:06:16 2004 by lmas]


He is neither the most bootlegged artist of all time nor has he sold a 100,000,000 albums (although he likes to say he has) but your point is still very valid.
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Reply #25 posted 06/06/04 4:06pm

metalorange

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Abrazo said:

metalorange said:



I think Billboard changing it's policy is in direct pressure from the record companies. Prince is demonstrating that it is possible to successfully sell your albums directly to the fans, cutting out the middle-man of the record company, and that is a message that is dangerous to the record companies. They don't want artists on their roll-call to know that Prince's business model, of this cd giveaway and his website, actually works because it could ultimately put them out of business. That's why they try hard to put him down and make out what he is doing is 'eccentric', like a smear campaign.


If record companies really wouldn't like this scheme (because it would presumably put them out of business) why then is Sony working with Prince and distributing Musicology?

Do you think Sony doesn't get its cut from the CD's sold at the concerts?


I'm sure I read somewhere that Sony doesn't get a cut from the cds given out at the concerts. The cd at the concerts doesn't contain the Musicology video and is in a single cardboard sleeve, not like the Sony retail version which has the video and a proper booklet pull-out, and this is their version that they get a cut from.

This scheme won't put record companies out of business but it is another threat to their profits at a time when the market is very shaky. It could be that Sony didn't anticipate that the concert cds would be counted on the billboard chart, or that they thought it was better to be onboard with Prince and get as much as they could out of it, both profits and publicity.

It's only my personal theory, but I do think that a message that independence of this sort actually works and is profitable and still gets you on the billboard charts is a danger to them, and getting billboard to change it's policy muffles the message somewhat
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Reply #26 posted 06/06/04 6:23pm

lmas

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lovemachine said:

lmas said:





This is an interesting topic. I LOVE Prince Music but would never call him the smartest business minded musician on the planet. This does lend itself to futher thought though. It was always my opinion that Prince was an enigma, perhaps a contradiction in to himself in that he always wanted to be a MAINSTREAM/UNDERGROUND artist. This is a contradiction, but he has successfully pulled it off in a way that no other artist that I know of has ever. He is officially the most bootlegged artist ever (over even the Beatles) yet he has sold more than 100Million records legit (having been apart of the system with WB), won many musical awards and recognitions, and has the respect and admiration of almost every musician or entertainment personality I've ever heard speak of him (cept Rick James) His ideas are cutting edge. Out of everyone of his peers from the 80's superstar group he was the first to takes production to a organized effort (Paisley Park Records) This idea of distributing records at concerts and including them in the Billboard numbers in ingenious. As for him forcing the public into buying his records...come on what the hell do you think RADIO/PAYOLA has done for the past 60 years of rock n roll.

You don't seriously think that if record companies had not paid radio to play the hell out of the New Kids on the BLock/Backstreet Boys/N'Sync (they are the same group aren't they?) and Britany in the beginning of there very expired and non-artistic careers that people would have really been out buying their records. Come on it's called "Suggestive (nicely forcing) Marketing". wink
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 13:06:16 2004 by lmas]


He is neither the most bootlegged artist of all time nor has he sold a 100,000,000 albums (although he likes to say he has) but your point is still very valid.



Yes he is. and I SAID 100mil RECORDS. (singles and albums included)
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Reply #27 posted 06/06/04 9:05pm

ELBOOGY

lovemachine said:

FutureShock said:

My whole response to this article, and Billboard managers in particular, is "SO WHAT!?" What is is Billboard's purpose? Their purpose is to track CD sales - period. It's not Billboard's job to determine a fan's "interest" in an album! They track sales! What difference does it make to Billboard how the cd is sold??? What Prince is doing is not illegal, and he's not giving the cds away for free. A sale is a sale. Prince just happened to be the first one clever enough to come up with and follow through with this marketing scheme. If others follow suit, then the playing field is leveled.

Billboard is trying to get into an area that they have no business getting into (determining fans "interest" as opossed to merely tracking sales). I say Billboard should leave it to the consumer to determine whether or not a concert ticket is worth the price of admission AND a cd. But in terms of merely counting a sale... a sale is a sale, so Musicology being included in the ticket price should count towards the total sales.

On top of all that, only 25 percent have been sold through concert tickets. That tells me that the cd is doing very well on it's own in retail outlets. So again, what's the big deal? Billboard needs to relax.
Thats a lie just check the retail sales partner its 3 to 1 in favor of retail sales!

The problem with this is that by end of the tour he will have given away WAY more then he sold by maybe a 2 to 1 margin unless he finds a hit soon.
U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY!
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Reply #28 posted 06/06/04 9:08pm

ELBOOGY

lmas said:

ELBOOGY said:

Smatrtest musician of all time,i don't know but 1 of the most couragous 4 sure. And the internet move was the best move and best direction 4 an artist of his nature. Name change was funkiest move in music history and he pulled it off! His true fans never alienated him only the bandwagon jumpers!




This is an interesting topic. I LOVE Prince Music but would never call him the smartest business minded musician on the planet. This does lend itself to futher thought though. It was always my opinion that Prince was an enigma, perhaps a contradiction in to himself in that he always wanted to be a MAINSTREAM/UNDERGROUND artist. This is a contradiction, but he has successfully pulled it off in a way that no other artist that I know of has ever. He is officially the most bootlegged artist ever (over even the Beatles) yet he has sold more than 100Million records legit (having been apart of the system with WB), won many musical awards and recognitions, and has the respect and admiration of almost every musician or entertainment personality I've ever heard speak of him (cept Rick James) His ideas are cutting edge. Out of everyone of his peers from the 80's superstar group he was the first to takes production to a organized effort (Paisley Park Records) This idea of distributing records at concerts and including them in the Billboard numbers in ingenious. As for him forcing the public into buying his records...come on what the hell do you think RADIO/PAYOLA has done for the past 60 years of rock n roll.

You don't seriously think that if record companies had not paid radio to play the hell out of the New Kids on the BLock/Backstreet Boys/N'Sync (they are the same group aren't they?) and Britany in the beginning of there very expired and non-artistic careers that people would have really been out buying their records. Come on it's called "Suggestive (nicely forcing) Marketing". wink
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 13:06:16 2004 by lmas]
I could'nt have said it better myself. Thank u! Thank U! Thank U!
U,ME,WE!....2FUNKY!
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Reply #29 posted 06/07/04 12:32am

0rlando

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Good on him 4 outwitting an industry that is in many cases a rip off.

I've heard so many ppl say how much of a failure Prince is when it comes to business sense. Those same ppl also fail to understand his intention.

I don't think he's trying to start a revolution that would see the demise of record companies, -Even he has acknowleged their importance in the scheme of things. However the problem is where marketting is regarded more important than the art itself.
If P was all about $$$ he would have gladly pocketed the $100mil cheque and continued on his seemingly successfull path. -But he wanted a better way, the right way.

He alone will not succed in cleaning out this corporate machine. But he is the only one showing us how he does it all in his own way, his own plan and execution -no external forces to contend with. I wish many other artists could shake the leeches off their back. Although some are trying, none are doing it more successfull than Prince.

He deserves all the rewards that comes from his work, however none are more valuable to him than sheer adulation from his audience.
-"If U don't like,
what U see here
-get the FUNK out."
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