Hi all. Long time listener of Prince and 1st time poster.

Hope this gets out to Prince and all the positives too.

As a composer, I have enjoyed Prince's music since the album where the cover shows him on a white horse riding nude LOL. But, really, since Dirty Mind, Prince was a big influence.

My couple thoughts on the reason why I don't hear the inspiration in Prince for quite awhile is simple:

1. Prince made enough to get a huge studio. Paisley Park. This is where he started recording Step by Step on nice advanced computer technology. Sometimes natural jamming around alone or with your group brings out great music.

2. Big jazz influences, i.e., new friends of Prince bringing him into the mix of their styles, which is pretty deep. Therefore, Prince starts to change his style, but you could imagine how hard it would be to incorporate contemporary Jazz Miles Davis' style into funk and make it work.

Black album is an example. Great stuff there, but that is where Prince started getting sloppy in a genious style.

So heads up Prince. Get back to your original composing style..., play with your "real instruments" and forget about the computer programs. Jimmy didn't play that way...
[This message was edited Tue May 25 21:11:56 2004 by Rockability]
[This message was edited Tue May 25 21:12:18 2004 by Rockability]

Thnx. I hate to start my 1st thread with a negative analysis, but oh well.

I know we all miss the Prince of old. Problem is, Prince would say it was because he has changed and if wanted to make 'lets go crazy', he could do it again, yet would bore him.

I disagree, with his composing style, there is not a chance of him making another 'lets go crazy.' Fact is he is going to make another 10 records that sound like 'Seven' or 'Money Don't Matter Tonight.'

Argg, and what is with that awful thick low triad mixed vocals he always throws in there? You know what I mean? It sounds kind of like deep voices scratching pavement. I don't get the appeal.

I remember when I bought the album 'Seven' or maybe it was 'Diamonds and Pearls.' The first sentance of every song was the title to the song. It was back then I thought maybe Prince was doing this on purpose to get his label back, making rotten music.

Rockability said:

Ok the first post was alright...a little vague as to what it was about until the end. So, you're one of those who's from the school of Prince made better music back when...HEADS UP PRINCE you need to get back to your style kind of thing. I hope you realize that most around here believe that he's doing fine and that is musical and artistic direction are what they are. You'll get along with Evil White Male though.

The second post is the one that tripped me up.


um no. His last 3 albums have been as diverse as anything he's ever done...and they sound nothing like the 2 songs you described.



I have no idea what you are talking about. Give an example or 2.

Also your accuracy is seriously lacking for a long time fan. You are going to have a hard time having anyone back you up, if you are wrong with the facts Check your last paragraph there. Neither the symbol album nor D&P songs start off with their titles in the first sentence. A few...like Thunder...and perhaps Cream (sort of).

I'm clapping the hands and stomping the feet but I am not sure what that has to do with this post.

And check the sig below...I get a dollar.

"1. Prince made enough to get a huge studio. Paisley Park. This is where he started recording Step by Step on nice advanced computer technology. Sometimes natural jamming around alone or with your group brings out great music. "

Your claim is based on your assumption of Prince's recording process. Whether he is at Paisley Park, or somewhere else, Prince has been known for his unorthodox recording techniques. Also, not all of his post 1987 albums have been entirely recorded at Paisley Park. Unless you were there with him it is hard to believe that you really know his process/inspiration/method etc.

"2. Big jazz influences, i.e., new friends of Prince bringing him into the mix of their styles, which is pretty deep. Therefore, Prince starts to change his style, but you could imagine how hard it would be to incorporate contemporary Jazz Miles Davis' style into funk and make it work. "

Prince's style has always been changing. He has always taken other types of music and molded it to his own sound.You act as if Jazz is too complex for Prince to play with. It's not like Prince had a certain way of doing things and then arbitrarily in 1988 he dumped that method and started listening to Miles Davis albums. This is pure speculation on your part.


One more thing. It would help to do more homework before you start your critique. Meaning, anyone who identifies the album "Prince" by calling it "the album where the cover shows him on a white horse riding nude" doesn't seem very credible when it comes to Prince because right off the bat you are getting facts wrong.
[This message was edited Wed May 26 15:55:35 2004 by skywalker]

skywalker said:

that isn't really being wrong per se....more like a fuzzy memory or what-not. it happens. other than that, i co-sign with whatcha say.

Come on, y'all, this is a forum for OPINIONS. It's not like Rockability slammed Prince altogether. A Ph.D in Princeology shouldn't be required to add to the dialogue. Refute him if you wish, but don't put the cat down because he doesn't know album titles or track sequences. Factual errors don't discredit subjective opinions about the music.

And there is no consensus opinion on the state of Prince's music. Don't try to pretend there ain't some folk on here who agree with Rockability.
[This message was edited Wed May 26 20:03:32 2004 by namepeace]

namepeace said:

very well put its just one cat's opinion let him speak....

superspaceboy said:

There is hardly a consensus to that effect.

If by "doing fine" you mean the musical output has been decent, and by "[h]is musical and artistic direction are what they are," you mean that most around here have come to terms with the fact Prince has gone in a new direction with his most recent work, then I could buy that. Even then, I'd say many -- but not most -- agree with those sentiments.

Hell, the only thing you can get "most" orgers to agree on is Prince's talent and influence as an artist. Beyond that, any given issue of Prince's career and output is bound to line up several people on either side.

namepeace said:

...yep...once again Namepeace...u speak da truth...

Thanks, y'all. And by the way, welcome Rockability. Sounds like you know your way around a studio!

Hey, don't get me wrong. I am not all knowing about Prince, so I don't know the name of the album where he was on horseback nude. "Prince" maybe.

Anyway, I am not trying to down on Prince that much, because I would still go to his concert. The man can play like no other live, which brings me back to my point. Prince strikes me as the type who can whip out a tune a day through jamming. Notice how his style changed slowly but steadily after Paisley Park studios. It makes sense he uses the studio well now and sits in front of his computer to compose. Seems like a small change, but they are two different composing styles. Neither one is better, but one works to the advantage of a style which is more free flowing.

I listened to Alphabet Street the other day (by no means a great Prince song), and the contrast of the feel to that and the last 8 or so years of Prince is huge. Take that example and then look at a song such as "Lady Cab Driver." A long song, yet it makes sense and his funky as hell. If Prince tried making anything like LCD using Cubase, Cakewalk, etc., step by step, I think he would be lost in a cluster of notes.

I'll say it again, Jimmy didn't do it that way... Neither did Miles or any of Prince's influences.
[This message was edited Wed May 26 20:29:24 2004 by Rockability]

Rockability said:

And now I gotta disagree with ya. To me, "Alphabet St." is one of Prince's finest songs.

But hey, that's just me!

namepeace said:

Another inventive Prince song!!

u just don't get it do u? i'm not gonna play your stupid music!!! Now GET OFF IT!!!!

Rockability said:

We all do????? I don't... I love some of those old albums like 1999, SOTT and Parade.... but other than that I enjoy , The Gold Experience, and many of his other 90's (and later) output over things like Prince, Controversy or Purple Rain.

namepeace said:

Actually that is what I meant. So you got it. His musical output is decent and we have come to terms that he has gone in different directions and probably won't sound like he did back when. He has evolved and continues to do so. By now one should accept that if they choose to follow his career...IMO.

The many vs. most. you are correct. I normally try not to use modifiers or generalize. I did mean many...not sure if many translates to most as this isn't a poll or anything. It's just the general feeling I get from the posts here.

"Ok the first post was alright...a little vague as to what it was about until the end. So, you're one of those who's from the school of Prince made better music back when...HEADS UP PRINCE you need to get back to your style kind of thing. I hope you realize that most around here believe that he's doing fine and that is musical and artistic direction are what they are. You'll get along with Evil White Male though. "

Wait up. That is quite a statement about the evil white male.

Racism aside , I am not in the category of "Prince, what happened to Purple Rain, can't you do more of it?"

I am talking about, 'Ronnie Talk to Russia,' 'Head,' 'Dirty Mind,' 'Irrestistable Bitch,' 'Adore,' 'The Beautiful ones' (yeah, a track from Purple Rain), 'Controversy', 'Lets Pretend We're Married', 'Kiss', 'When U Were Mine', 'Shockidelica', 'Escape', 'Erotic City', 'Possessed', 'International Lover', 'Lady Cab Driver', 'If I Was Your Girlfriend', and the list goes on.

These songs are not that similar to the experiment of 'Purple Rain.' That is the comparison Prince gets sick of.

As for wondering why some of the recordings after Paisley Studios are good. Sign o' The Times for instance. I think its cause Prince was incorporating the two styles of composition (playing live for inspiration and sitting down to think it out). The result was apparent in SOTT. Where the style starts changing to a full out sequencing mode is 'Seven.' Even in songs like 'Peach', which is a rock driven tune, it sounds composed via pure sequencing and then recorded with an effort to put life into it. Its almost there, but not even 1/2 of the Prince sound I knew up till then.

Oh, and by the way, it isn't because I wasn't there with Prince during his recording, its because anyone into recording, arranging, will hear this in his music. There has been a constant METRONOME in Prince's music since 7. I wish I was like all of you who dig it, but around a couple hundred thousand of us miss the 'other style' not 'Purple Rain.'
[This message was edited Thu May 27 2:46:53 2004 by Rockability]
[This message was edited Thu May 27 2:58:16 2004 by Rockability]

superspaceboy said:

Fair enough . . .

Rockability said:

Welcome Rockability!
As a fellow musician, I gotta disagree with ya there.
In my humble opinion, it doesn't matter how Jimi did it, or how Miles did it.
Radiohead use a lot of state-of-the-art electronics but I still consider them wonderful musicians. I kinda wince when I hear some artists go; "well, this amp setup was good enough for Zeppelin, so it's good enough for me."
Where's the ambition in doing things the way they've always been done?
An artist can put soul into their music regardless of what equipment they use, because it comes from the inside.
One of my favorite artists, Bjork, made a great point regarding this. She said that people tend to listen to some music and say "there's no soul there" simply because it's electronic or was recorded or edited using the computer.
She stated that the only reason there's no soul there, is because "the artist didn't put it there."
In other words, whether someone records with Cakewalk/Cubase, uses Protools or a comb and a jug with some handclapsandfingasnaps on the side, the soul of the music comes from inside the artist.
-spelling edit-
[This message was edited Thu May 27 9:31:19 2004 by OdysseyMiles]

Ok, so you guys who think Prince's style has evolved, can I ask a question to you?

Do you honestly prefer his new albums to Sign O' The Times, Controversy, and 1999? To me, its in those albums where a constant similarity in style was kicking. The Purple Rain album was more the experiment than anything.

I'm not talking about his instruments here. I'm talking about the metronome in the music, if you know what I mean. To me its more of what happened to 'Clap your hands to the two and four, all the party people get on the floor' vibe than the 'The greatest romance,ever been told.'
[This message was edited Thu May 27 20:22:36 2004 by Rockability]

OdysseyMiles said:

Thnx OdysseyMiles, and damn good reply. Have to respond to that, although took awhile to get the thoughts.

I should be more specific here. It isn't about going forward with technology and looking back to influences to measure how one should perform. Its about how one makes music.

Imagine sitting at a computer with your keyboard at the side. It works in a way, you play something you like and then since you like it, you record it. But after awhile, you start getting introverted into a style within the program of the computer and your mind. Then, you could get a pattern of style you know that fits making music through sequencing.

All I am saying is if greats such as Prince obviously make music at their best from free styling, then they should keep doing that instead of an analystic way through Cakewalk, Cubase style.

Re-watch Graffiti Bridge and check out the scenes where he is sitting at his computer doing just that. I believe Prince was inputing his composing style into the movie to show his expression. On the flip side, you watch Purple Rain where he composing by sitting at the piano or playing his guitar. Evil Computer!
[This message was edited Fri May 28 2:36:01 2004 by Rockability]

Rockability said:

I feel what you're saying, but we don't know how P composes all the time. I'm almost sure it's done a variety of different ways, just depending on what he wants out of each song. Even he walks around telling younger musicians not to rely on the computer, so I think he looks at Cubase & Cakewalk as just another tool. In my experience, everything we write starts out as a freestyle in our heads.

Sinister said:

FOR REAL! All you close minded mofo's gonna send this dude right off the org. Damn, if you disagree be civil.

Buy some bootlegs of his live stuff and then come on back with an opinion.

Generalizing about his recorded works has been played out, especially here.

Slave2daGroove said:

Odessymiles,

Nice info. Didn't know P gave tips to youngsters about not relying on computers.



Slavd2daGroove,


I don't understand what you mean. I have been to Purple Rain and Lovesexy concerts, so I know how he sounds live. That was the point. Sounds a lot better when Prince freestyles and doesn't start off making music by entering in notes and sequencing them on a computer.

As far as being played out... Prince just came out with a new album and the subject should get replayed every time that happens. Far as this place goes, I read more positives than negatives, so Prince shouldn't be worried.
[This message was edited Sun May 30 0:52:36 2004 by Rockability]