This is mainly for the musicians of the org...but also for everyone else...

As I get older, the more I hear music from Prince it seems I get less inspired and don't enjoy the music as much when I realise that, on guitar at least, I could play anything Prince could play. It's really not that hard if you know your instrument. Now, I'm not trying to start a bigheaded, CHRONIC-like thread (remember those? lol)...it's just that Prince rarely impresses me musically these days. And to non-musicians too....does anyone feel the same way? I mean, I can't play piano anywhere near prince's level, or sing as amazing, and I will always think he is a genius, but when it comes to the other instruments, particularly guitar, I realise that I'm not that impressed anymore....and it's kinda sad, cause i used to be SO impressed way back. Maybe there's some great bootleg i haven't heard yet, who knows? but i'm pretty sure i've heard the best stuff already. I'm not trying to be bigheaded by this...seriously...i just wonder whether anybody else has stopped being impressed by his musicianship? i mean i feel he could go so much further in the jazz realm for instance...he never goes beyond a short phrase, whereas a real jazz player like eric leeds could play prince's ass of in that genre...i used to Prince was the best musician ever....but now i'm not so sure...he's not infallible after all...i mean i've been listening to a lot of classical guitar lately and it's occured to me that his talent is not as boundless as i thought....i'm sure it would be beyond prince to play a classical guitar concerto, even as good as he is...anyway...anyone feel similarly? perhaps i expect too much from the feelings i've had listening to him in the past?

I now what ur sayin Mrdupues. But Prince has always been perversley muted when playin guitar on record. Its one of those incomprehensible things about the man. His talent is not endless as you say.. but hes still as brilliant as he once was. However i believe if he was to make an all out rock album and not worry about constraints vis a vis production values, he can rip it up on guitar. He needs to bring it raw and transpose it in the studio...but then again what do i know .. im a shit guitarist lol

maplesyrupnjam said:

thanks i thought i was all alone on this.

yeah, i think he holds back WAY too much on guitar sometimes. it's like he wants to show some little tricks and that he has the POTENTIAL to blow your mind...but he rarely does that for me anymore.

Can you play the third part of WEST ?
I mean with the same emotion ?

Fhunkin said:

yes. emotion is the easiest part for me.

but i want to make it clear that although i believe that I can play at the same level as prince on guitar, i did not create this thread to impress anybody by that and i don't intend to prove it for the purposes of this thread. just letting you know. i know there are probably others who feel they have the same skill and talent on an instrument as prince, too. i just want it to be a given and you'll have to take my/our word for it. i know it's a big call, but as i am trying to point out, he's not THE greatest musician i've ever heard on guitar...just one of them.

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[This message was edited Tue May 25 4:31:48 2004 by mrdespues]

mrdespues said:

You're probably just getting older. The things that used to inspire you don't as much anymore. P hasn't lost his thang to inspire...just not as often (he's getting older to). I find that as I get older things tend to influence me less...unlike when I was a teen and stuff as fresh as Prince could mold me into who I am today.

superspaceboy said:

Musicology is probably the wrong album to look towards for musical inspiration. My suggestion look for inspiration from your other influences when one fails to give you what you need.
[This message was edited Tue May 25 11:52:45 2004 by psykosoul]

this album and tour isn't that type of sound

recently though, he has had some good moments
like JIR from ONA It Aint Over and from the 2002 Celly- he was great on guitar. the night where he played "bambi" was awesome and the acoustic set was also brilliant

it's just around the corner

Simple melodies are the best.

I pity you if you can't enjoy music just because you can play it too.

psykosoul said:

I agree. When I first started playing, a lot of my influences: Hendrix, Santana, Eddie Hazel of Funkadelic, etc were P's influences as well. I just dug the spin P put on it. So when I was a kid, I learned all of P's solos. If you know where P is coming from, then no, it's not that hard to play. But neither are the other cats I mentioned. You have to develop YOUR own style, that's what it's about, not how hard or easy Prince's solo are to play.

mrdespues,

You should post a mp3 of you doing a medly of P tunes on your guitar. I would love to hear it.

I just don't get the constant comparisons to Jazz and Classical musicians. He's a lot of things, but has never been part of those genres. He'll cook up some Fusion now and then (and even though that grew out of Jazz it's STILL stigmatized to an extent), but his heart isn't in those areas. At the purest form of the word, Prince has always been a FUSION artist, not a Jazz Fusion artist, a MUSICAL FUSION artist. He's not out there to rub shoulders with John McLaughlin or Chick Corea. They're not expected to do what he does, and he shouldn't be expected to do what they do.

One thing I've noticed with some online Prince fans is that it SEEMS some of them CONSTANTLY listen to Prince alone, as if he's the musical universe by himself. His body of work easily lends itself to him being one of the giants of American music, he's in the club, but he's not there exclusively. There's a whole world of music out there, ready to be discovered by those who only want to be immersed in Prince alone (or one artist alone) - if it's MUSIC that's what you're after, and not the combined trappings of everything else about him.

I've never thought that he was "the best" guitar player I've ever heard, but I listen to a lot of guitarists who I don't consider top tier. It doesn't detract from the overall musicality if the music is top notch. He's a great guitar player, and he absolutely burns on any given night at any given gig. There are gigs where he could hold his own with almost anybody alive. Big whoop, he's not the best. Why is he even expected to be? For me it's always been about the entire package with Prince - that's where he's a top tier artist. It's not one thing (playing guitar, keys, etc.), it's the overall musical pie he cooks up and serves you.

I'd rather listen to Steve Gadd or John Bonham on drums.

I'd rather listen to Jeff Beck or Jimi on guitar.

I'd rather listen to McCoy Tyner or Herbie Hancock on piano/keys.

I'd rather listen to Bernard Edwards or maybe Chuck Rainey on bass.

And there are times, depending on the musical piece, that I'd rather listen to Prince on those instruments. He doesn't do what they do, and they don't do what he does.

Broaden your horizons, there's a whole world of music out there.


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[This message was edited Tue May 25 17:15:15 2004 by Supernova]

i know what you're saying. there are a lot of people who can compose, arrange, play, record their own stuff, and their own stuff is good. and when you break prince's songs down into their compositional elements they're not overtly breathtaking, piece by piece

BUT he has something live that other artists can rarely touch. a kind of charisma or something. and imo there aren't many musicians who can pull ALL of that together the way he does.

Supernova, I have a huge CD and record collection, with many of those artists you mentioned. I listen to a lot of other stuff than Prince.

As a musician, I am always trying to better my own playing and for a long time I was impressed by what Prince could do in terms of modal runs and I still think he is great. Now that I can do them myself, I still think he's great, because he originated that Princely precise modal style...but as I continue to explore stuff I haven't heard from him, I find that he repeats himself a lot on the guitar. I don't need to be able to play the music to enjoy it, but I do need to be impressed by it in some way or another...I don't know, this is seeming harder to explain than I thought.

I still think P is one of the best out there, but I know that there are ways that Hendrix reaches me for example that Prince doesn't even though I consider Prince technically better. The reason is that Hendrix was always reaching, searching in his playing. Prince seems to have more of a plan or something beforehand and plays what he knows. Coltrane is another example of someone who reached for more in their music. I think basically my point is that while I think that what he does is impressive, I think he is capable exploring it further, sometimes.

mrdespues said:

hey you know there are plenty more artist out there that you could give a try..prince is getting older things and people change.and if is was still doing the same ole kind of music he was doing baccccck in the day ..you would be saying that he needs to change with his age and times so he really could not win with someone such as yourself..if you can play guitar why don't you get out there and put some freash sounds out there you know something that would impress us musically..

Not a musician, but I consider Prince more like the Magic Johnson of musicians. He wasn't the best shooter or rebounder, he didn't have much "rise," and he wasn't the best defender. But he always went for triple-doubles and engineered the most devastating fastbreak offense anyone has ever seen. If he needed or wanted to, he could score 40. He could also snatch rebounds or even play any of the five positions on the court. He was versatile.

That's what Prince is. He can do more things well than most other artists. I understand what you're saying, but Prince's versatility is what has always impressed me.

I think a lot of musicians can sometimes find themselves not enjoying music as much, they tend to pick things apart too much, rather than just appreciate effort and the song as a whole. My brother posts on here ( cloud9mission) and I've noticed that he has this problem sometimes. I'm not an amazing musician myself, I get this problem. But maybe your fault is that you're thinking about it too much? Just listen man... thats what its there for!
Another point I would like to make is that Prince has written a heck of a lot of songs, if they were all equally amazing you wouldn't notice. Theres variety for a reason. He can rip it up on the guitar, but if he did it all the time I doubt anyone would really care, and would consider him to be showing off too much.. so to speak. He gives us a little taste of what he can really do, which I personally like, it means that we're waiting for the next time he goes for it, and it means we truly appreciate his efforts all the more.
Just listen

Peace x
[This message was edited Wed May 26 11:33:48 2004 by Jolene870]

mrdespues said:

I get the gist of what you're saying. And my post wasn't only directed toward your comments, because some of your comments I've seen echoed throughout this web site by many other people over the years. And I completely agree with your very last sentence quoted above, as much ground as Prince has covered over the years you always get the feeling he can be even more exploratory if he felt led to be. I can understand that. The talent is there. The drive and hunger? That can be debated. Maybe at this point he doesn't feel the need...but he's Prince, and he's still capable of the element of surprise.



`
[This message was edited Wed May 26 12:03:16 2004 by Supernova]

POOK said:

I do !!

flip.

snip.
[This message was edited Thu May 27 3:03:28 2004 by dawntreader]

mrdespues said:

mrdespues,

I think you're missing the point, the thing that is amazing about P isn't the level of musicianship(although i think he's still a great guitarist, just look at the rock and roll hall of fame "my guitar gently weeps)..it's all about the songs and the great songwriting. P is the best songwriter out there, period. I'm sure you could play those parts, but i don't think u could ever write any of those songs

i know where youre coming from as i have been disapointed with some of his guitar work on record in certain periods. But i love his style and prefer it over any other player ive heard. I just dont like a lot of the guitar tones throughout the 90s (for example Shhh).

I started transcribing Eric Leeds solos as to me they were more interesting than Princes main framework of pentatonic blues scales(although played with great emotion and variety). Now and again i hear some great playing by Prince, live, and think why doesnt he put that on an album.

How many musicians i hear at guitar shops/jam nights think because they can play a certain solo then they are as good as the person that first played it. Most of them wouldnt be able to write an original note. You ask them to improvise and theyre lost ,or ask them to play it live they fall apart (saying 'wait , just go back' - sorry, playing live you get one chance) or play it in their own tempo without listening to the band around them. Those are some of the qualities Prince/professional musicians have that get overlooked by amatuer musicians.

spoida said:

Absolutely 100% correct.

I'm not a musician, so I really want to know what you think about this. What did you think of his solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps? Would you say it's more emotionally potent than technically impressive?
One thing: it shows he can do the Rock Star Pose as well as anybody.

Ok! With much respect....Drop at least 1 breaking ground all time classic song that U wrote, produced, arranged & performed...then we can start talking

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Its not about U being able to play his guitar parts, Its who made those guitar parts and songs.
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mrdespues said:

Sounds like you've lost all hope there, my friend

Even though I agree with your statement that he does sometimes hold back way too much on guitar I actually see very little cause for alarm.

If Prince has the potential to "blow your mind" - and we have grown to expect that of him - then there's no reason to doubt he will do it again, whether it happens to be in the studio or during a live performance. I believe they call it "legs" in some quarters, I choose to call it staying power. And staying power is something Prince has in spades.

There's no telling where the next gem or flash of brilliance will come from, and that surely is the fun part.

Like Bowie (and I made the mistake of writing him off during his very patchy 90's decade) Prince does come at you from unexpected angles, someone who is adept at bouncing back from the jaws of adversity.

In other words, it's probably a little soon to be writing his obituary

.

mrdespues said:

Could it be that he is Prince and has been Prince for over 20 years and you're not? We have heard his music since 1978. Anything you consume is great quantities over an extended amount of time will change and not feel the same as trhe first time. Sex doesnt feel like to did the first time I got some - its still good but not the same. Its called time and its called age.

On the contrary, what continues to amaze me about Prince is that he continues to be Prince. He can still rip off a guitar solo like no one. He can still write songs that no one else can think of. He can still rule the stage better than any live act on the planet today. He has done so consistently with more artistic output in a few years than most of his so called peers do in a lifetime.

Well, I think some of you are missing his point, he is talking about guitar skills, not creativity. So yes, sometime ago i was not getting very excited cause I could play most Prince solos. But suddenly i was hearing the shh performance on MTV Hong Kong Rocks and a instrumental live piece from the ona tour and it started all over again, cause i cant fuc_k with that.

But what he said was true, i love the end solo of let´s go crazy. But nowadays i love it cause it fits well with the song and sounds great. Some years ago i loved it because i thought it was very difficult to play. But that aint the truth.

So Prince always excited me with his overall musicanship, composer´s talent, singing talent, lyrics writing. But as a guitar player he will always be good, but if I ever turn into Steve Vai i probably wont be impressed with his fast licks, only with his creativity.