I will be the first admit that I didn't pay much attention in the music appreciation course I took in college, but what is the big deal about WDC not having a bassline. Is that something unusual? Was this brought up when WDC was out, like it is now? Everytime I read an article that mentions WDC, the part about it not having a bassline is always brought up. Please forgive my ignorance in advance...

Practically every song has a bassline. I guess it's considered to be an essential part of most popular music. Without it most songs would sound weak and weird, and Drum n' Bass would be just Drum.

Come on geez - bass is the very soul of most popular and contemporary music... if you take out the bass trax on most tunes it will sound flat and empty - but with WDC, the purple maestro wrote and performed such a great song that it didn;t even need a bassline - now that is genius!

Chasing said:

Genius, yes; but maybe not the first. In Duke Ellington's "Mood Indigo", the clarinet plays lower than the trombone, giving the song a mysterious "floating" feeling.

I've long speculated that when Ellington died in 1975, his soul re-entered a new vessel with a manic hunger for new sounds and drawn to the purple end of the spectrum....
[This message was edited Thu May 13 7:21:56 2004 by jackflash]

AsylumUtopia said:

ok thanks...

Chasing said:

Basslines in American music are essential to the rhythmic foundation of a song, or musical piece. Actually, basslines are even more prominent than melody lines in American music. Think of all the rap songs that don't have traditional singing choruses; there is most likely little to no melody, but always a bassline.

And even when there is no electric bass in a song there is usually a snyth bassline or string bassline being played. The closest thing to any bass in WDC is the bass drum on the Linn. Of course that's not a bassline. It's not like a performer singing with an acoustic guitar and no accompaniment, so it's extremely uncommon for a finished song to not have any bassline in it whatsoever.

In general it would sound unfinished, sometimes like a skeletal demo. But WDC is the perfect example of the "less is more" ethos. It sounds fleshed out, AND finished. This isn't to say that it always sounded that way for everybody who heard it that very first time. Quite frankly I didn't know what to think of the song when I heard it the first few times, and couldn't figure out why it sounded so different at the time - and I play bass.

It's not just the lack of a bassline that makes "Doves" so unusual (tho that would be enough), it's also the entire arrangement itself.

Check out the liner notes to any cd's and albums you have: 99.9% of the time a bassist is listed. So to answer your question, yes, it's extremely unusual.

Kiss doesn't have a bassline either ya know.

Supernova said:

I agree with everything you said except that.

Supernova said:

Wow!.....thanks for taking the time breaking that down ...like you, I knew that WDC sounded different but I didn't know why, but now it makes sense....

mrdespues said:

I think you're right. I wonder why that isn't mentioned like WDC....
[This message was edited Fri May 14 4:21:28 2004 by PurpleCharm]

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[This message was edited Fri May 14 4:22:05 2004 by PurpleCharm]

mrdespues said:

Well, the 12' version of Kiss does have bass guitar. Brown Mark is popping away on that. Regarding When Doves Cry and no bass line, P originally recorded a bass line but when it came time for P to mix the song, he took it out. It's been reported that when P played the song to Bobby and Fink, they didn't even like the song. Warner's didn't like it either and P had to fight hard to not only get it on the album but get it released as a single. P taking the bass out gave the song a certain air and vibe about it that I think makes it unique. All the other elements in the song stand out more without the bass being there. I think that's what P was going for.

There's no bassline in "Slave" either.

mrdespues said:

I explained why I believe it to be the case, and that explanation started with hip hop only 25 years ago. Why not add why you think it's not true?

these songs might not have a bass guitar, but they do have sounds in the bass end of the spectrum that completely function as a bass line... usually formed by the electronic bass drum and tom sounds... right?

ufoclub said:

A bass drum doesn't constitute a bassline.

Supernova said:

well firstly American music didn't start just 25 years ago! On top of that, a you need a melody in any western form of music before the term harmony can even be introduced and bass is regarded as harmony because it is contrapuntal to the melody line (in general). therefore, melody lines, most often played by instruments or vocals in a higher register, are much more dominant.

Supernova said:

obviously not, but i think what ufoclub is trying to say is that the bass frequencies are filled out quite nicely by the depth of the bass drum sound and the fact that prince elongates that sound to substitute a bass-line with a lot of reverb.

mrdespues said:

Err, that's not what I said at all. So it's out of the context you're starting from.

Supernova said:

why begin your explanation with hip-hop then? whatever, take my next point then...basslines are not the most prevalent element in American music. if anything, RHYTHM is and certainly horns, guitar, vocals are more dominant than bass. not more important, just more dominant.

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[This message was edited Fri May 14 19:28:39 2004 by mrdespues]

mrdespues said:

Well, whatever he's saying the bass drum in the song isn't substituted as a bassline. Just because a sound comes from the lower register doesn't automatically make it the bassline.

mrdespues said:

It's called an "example" of another type of a very popular American style of music.


This is true, and I am mistaken for not phrasing it differently. "Basslines WITHIN the rhythmic foundation" is what I meant.

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[This message was edited Fri May 14 19:32:18 2004 by Supernova]

Supernova said:

it may not be a bassline, but it certainly CAN be a substition. Prince wouldn't have reverbed that bass drum so heavily if it weren't....you have to fill up those low frequencies somehow...that song would definitely sound weak without the reverbed drums substituting the bassline.

Supernova said:[quote]

mrdespues said:

i still disagree....rhythm and then melody are most important. generally, melody isn't found as often in the bass as it is other instruments.

mrdespues said:

Dude, I'm not saying it "can't" be. I just said it wasn't in this case.


This is where we part: I'm not going to be presumptuous enough to say what Prince "wouldn't" have done in that song, simply because he programmed the Linn with an even more resonant reverbed bass drum on the ballad "The Beautiful Ones" - and it contains a bassline.


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[This message was edited Fri May 14 19:42:01 2004 by Supernova]

mrdespues said:

Um, yeah. I don't see that we disagree on that.

Supernova said:

well i'm saying it is. dammit!


This is where we part: I'm not going to be presumptuous enough to say what Prince "wouldn't" have done in that song, simply because he programmed the Linn with an even more resonant reverbed bass drum on the ballad "The Beautiful Ones" - and it contains a bassline.

[/quote]

take another listen...the bass drum has no reverb on the beautiful ones. it's the toms that you're hearing which are heavily reverbed, if i remember correctly, and well, i think i do.

Ok, for the first time in...I don't know HOW long (seems years), I'm listening, and...it's the bass drum that's reverbed on TBO. Listen again. Seriously. He may have reverbed the toms, but it's the bass drum that is the most pronounced on reverb.


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[This message was edited Fri May 14 19:55:30 2004 by Supernova]

Supernova said:

ok fair enough. i'm done arguing now.

























but i'm still right.