van halen and steve vai are better rock players but listen to the last minute of 12 minutes long album version of love bizzare for a
beautiful clean jazz guitar solo,or solo on extended montains,or any other of his clean guitar jazz solos.eddie never did that,nor steve

ok

Don't forget that amazing solo work on "She Spoke 2 Me". Absoloutely fantastic. When some friends(all of which are musicians and Prince haters) of mine heard that song, they were blown away. They would not believe it was Prince until I showed them the actual CD. I had always told them that he was amazing, but all they did was bag on me. After they heard that song, they became "closet" Prince fans.

Why would Van Halen or Steve Vai want to play Jazz music when they come from a rock background?

The comparison is quite pointless

diamond99 said:

sorry, but Prince isn't playing guitar on that one.

thebanishedone said:

He's a better drummer than Eddie Van Halen too.





My dad's bigger than your dad.

princeis the jazz guitar player on she spoke to me.listen to love bizzare 12 minute version.
guitar solo he didb at last minute of that song is simular to she spoke to me

Where's the proof that Steve Vai and Eddie Van Halen suck at playing jazz? Where are their jazz CDs/songs? Where's the proof? Here we go with another stupid idolworship thread again....
[This message was edited Sun May 9 8:27:48 2004 by BlaqueKnight]

Well... Prince is a great GUITAR player,

but is he a great JAZZ guitar player?? Please listen to Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, Jimmy Raney, Kenny Burrell, Django and after a couple of months of listening, decide if Prince is great jazz guitar player.....

Vai's "Flexable" and "Passion & Warfare" CDs are full of a lot of impressive guitar work, some of which occurs on tracks that could pass for fusion ("Call it Sleep" springs to mind, along with "Sisters").

I'm not sure if you're talking fusion or whether your definition of "jazz guitar" is limited to straight-ahead fare (this is always the trouble with labels, isn't it?) but Steve's chops are pretty thick and not limited to hard-rock shredding. I'm a complete neophyte when it comes to EVH .

But, if your discussion is one of guitarists who had/have jazz and rock tendencies, I'll have to offer Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jonathan Dubose Jr. and Paul Jackson Jr. as examples of brothers who can stand and deliver in both genres -- especially Jackson.

Better than Van Halen I am sure at jazz guitar. But Steve Vai i don't know. The guy standarts are very high. I think he can play whatever he wants. all the gu did in his whole life is play guitar.

7salles said:

If you are so "sure", site a song where EDDIE is playing jazz, so as to get a fair comparison.

metalorange said:

oh yeah? well my dad can beat your dad in a race down the street.

BlaqueKnight said:

I know that Eric Clapton said that he hated a blues song that eddie and brian may recorded for him. He said that they are great players but didn't know to play blues or something like that. If he can't play blues, he cant play jazz.

Now serious. I can't be sure. But i THINK he can't play jazz because he is not a very versatile player, and harmonically his songs are very simple and prince has some good jazzy progressions sometimes. Jazz is not his thing, and you know it. But using you way of thinking, Prince maybe is better at diminute arpeggios than malmsteen. You cannot say malmsteen is better at it than Prince because you never saw Prince doing diminute arpeggios. do this make sense? It's almost what you said taken to other proportions.

thebanishedone said:

Here you go again!! What guitar player in their right mind would say the things you say? Prince probably IS a better JAZZ player than either of them. But then lets look at the facts; Eddie has to my knowledge, never studued jazz or attempted to play it in any traditional form! And Vai CAN play jazz. He did study it at Berklee, which at the time he went, had a HUGE emphasis on their jazz program(not sure if they're still as big on it,as they used to be). Having said that,Vai's style of jazz also got filtered through his enormous love and respect for Frank Zappa's music, which is "out there" anyway.So again it wouldn't resemble anything considered "traditional." Prince got alot of his chops as far as jazz goes, from going back to guys like George Benson and of course Wes Montgomery..just to name 2. So for you to even make such a statement proves that you lack basic knowledge and maturity as far as guitar players,and individual styles go! That's like saying Zakk Wylde is a better metal guitar player than Paco De Lucia??? Duh!!!

Yeah, i can't see the need to say that Prince is better than Van halen at jazz too. But maybe it's a fact. and some people here like blaquekight can't seem to see anyone giving props to prince on guitar. Being better than VAn halen at any area of guitar is difficult because he is great. And yeah, Zakk is better than paco on metal. so what? nothing. but he is!

At no point has anyone said Prince isn't any good. He IS good. What you want doesn't come off as props. What you seem to want is for everyone to declare Prince god of all guitar playing. He isn't. He's a jack of all trades, master of none. You can't seem to grasp that Prince isn't necessarily going to be better than cats who spend their whole lives playing one instrument (even though that's not the case for Eddie or Vai). Vai is head shoulders and knees above Prince on guitar. Period. Prince has a better feel for certain things, but as a player, he's not as good. Prince is a better singer/lyricist/songwriter (in my opinion) than Vai. Its funny how you fans can acknowledge one but not the other when the world has already spoken. You ain't fooling good musicians about other good musicians. Nobody tries to negotiate Vai's greatness on guitar. Prince fans seem to be trying to deal him in. Let the PLAYING speak. Prince's playing lacks greatness. He's good, though. That's not at question.
[This message was edited Sun May 9 18:48:20 2004 by BlaqueKnight]

Blaquek.. i don't know why you assume that i think Prince is the God of all guitar playing. I never said this and i don't think this. Prince is not only good he is great IMO, nowadays he is GREAT. But i don't think he is better than Steve vai or nuno bettencourt, or pet metheny. The fact that i think that prince is great dont makes me think he is the only gerat or the best,

did you hear teh isntrumental extended jams where prince is playing some fuzzy guitar from last year, it's a extended solo, a jazzy rocker improvisation? what od you think of that?

i respect your opinion that you think Prince is good not great. but can't you see that people beg to differ? I think that randy roads, bettencourt, metheny, steve vai. all those played or plays better than prince.

but prince is probably better than most rock/metal artists, like slash, joe perry and jimi page. So i think that he is great, because he is better than lots of guitar players that i dig.

starbass said:

There actually have been plenty of "rock" guys that have ventured into the jazz realm and done a damn good job of it. Ever heard any of Ginger Baker's stuff?

SteamForest said:

Granted..he's not a guitar player but from the rock realm none the less.

thebanishedone said:

damn, first the "lousy on guitar" comment, and now this. do you just come up with threads for the purpose of getting people to rip you? everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but you just seem to keep stepping in stool!!

7salles said:

That's exactly my point, sparky! Zakk is way more adept at the "metal" style than Paco,because that's not Paco's signature style!! Thus, comparing 2 musicians from completely different genre, is SILLY!! A better comparison would be made if it were2 players from the same or similar styles of music. At the end of the day,who cares! The "My daddy is bigger than your daddy" comment was so perfect because this topic is childish!! I just hope the next thread isn't; "Prince's falsetto is better than Pavorotti's!"

"Put down the needle,put down the spoon.."

budlite said:

man, you sure are irate!!

Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate and say I think Prince is a better guitarist than Steve Vai in general, playing jazz, rock or otherwise.

I'm saying this as I enjoy Prince's guitar playing more than that of Steve Vai. Bit of a shaky argument u might say, but ultimately who says that 'best' or 'better' comes down only to pure technical ability anyway?

I can't be told I'm scientifically and mathematically wrong. Well, not by anyone with any common sense who can speak and write coherently, since I'm making a choice based on the subjective enjoyment of a player's playing.

So there.

What's the use of better technical ability if I don't enjoy listening to it more? Some may love Vai's style, but I like Prince's, meaning I would rather hear Prince play than Steve Vai. In this sense I can feel justified in calling Prince better.

It's all subjective anyway, which is what I'm getting at. There is no universal law which determines the abstract notion of quality, only subjectivity. We know what we like and what we think sounds good and aurally pleasing.

If u dig Vai, cool.

If u dig Prince, cool.

I dig Prince more.

I'm out! The very idea of this thread is makin' my head hurt!!

But Prince's falsette is better than Pavarottis.
So what? nothing. But it is.

But saying prince is better at jazz than van halen is not as silly is this. Because if someone can't play jazz means lots of things about his musical knowledge or lack off.

7salles said:

WRONG again!!! You are missing the point,yet again! STOP ALREADY...you're making me dizzy!!!

I hate when people try to reduce actual ability down to subjectivenes. Some people drive better than others, some people build houses better, and some play guitar better. Just because you PREFER the quaint house over the larger, flashier one doesn't change the fact that certain aspects of ability are NOT subjective. Art and music are subjective as are individual tastes, but that does not change ability. Its funny how you "fams" drop statements about how Prince is better at "fill-in-the-blank" than so-in-so and then try to eliminate technical ability as a factor. That's just STUPID. If you're not going to guage on ability, then how the HELL can you use the word "better"? Shouldn't it be "I prefer"? Its funny how technical ability is somehow irrelevant. THEN, you rattle off the names of 50 Prince songs, but can't seem to name ONE song of the artist in comparison to make your point; shouldn't you at least know the works of both artists before you make a comparison? Like my tagline says: Y'all know PRINCE'S music, but...anyway...I hope you people don't think the same way about surgeons. "Technically, Dr. Bishop is a better surgeon, but I prefer Dr. Johnson because he talks really nicely to me as I'm going under anesthesia".
[This message was edited Mon May 10 9:13:01 2004 by BlaqueKnight]