i find the billboard estimate of Musicology sales this week of 165,000-180,000 simply amazing! lets face it The Rainbow Children Peaked on the billboard chart at only #108! and stayed in the billboard 200 album chart for ONLY 2 weeks! N.E.W.S didnt even chart! Rave only debut'd at #18 and fell quickly! so this is a major increase for Prince and it's well deserved

ah yes TGE now there's an album that deserved big promotion!

Musicology hasn't sold between 165-180,000 copies. Prince has given copies away of the album at his concerts this year. And if you add up all the attendances of his concerts so far this week, you'll see that it adds up to roughly 100,000 tickets sold. These giveaways shouldn't count as sales. The real amount of sales this week for Musicology, if Billboard's estimates are right, is around 65-80,000 copies sold.
[This message was edited Sat Apr 24 18:19:21 2004 by TheGoldExperience]

PurpleKnight said:

The promotion machine was working overtime on Rave . . . he had a billboard in Times Square, an appearance on TRL and (I believe) the NAACP Awards (or was it BET, where he introduced TLC), and had a New Year's Eve concert . . .

It was when Clive Davis left Arista that it all fell apart.

Same thing with Emancipation, wasn't it? The label "EMI" was dissolved shortly after Emancipation was released? Not sure about that one, but I think that's what happened. Plus, Emancipation was priced WAY too high . . .

TheGoldExperience said:

Ahh, but it's been posted on another thread that they DO count! Tricky marketing ploy, but it worked!

TheGoldExperience said:

yes Musicology has SOLD 165,000-180,000 if you look back at the article they are ONLY counting the April 21st concert of 17,500! for this week's sales the rest is all retail sales

here what it says from Billboard

"The cycle for venue sales is Thursday through Wednesday because of the extra steps required to verify that data, so the only show from the tracking week that will count toward Prince's opening week will be the April 21 show at Colonial Center in Columbia, S.C. Capacity for that venue is 17,500, so that is the maximum contribution that concert-distributed CDs will yield in the first week. Got it?

Winans' story is much less complicated. No orders bundled with tickets, and the clock started with the album's April 20 release date. Looks as if he will sell more, too.

Even with Prince getting added sales from that Carolina concert, Winans should earn the big chart's Hot Shot Debut. Based on retailers' first day numbers, sales crunchers put his "Hurt No More" at 200,000 copies, while Prince looks as if he will start with about 165,000-185,000."
[This message was edited Sat Apr 24 19:00:15 2004 by Mazerati]

Mazerati said:

I think that even with those estimates, the end numbers could be even bigger since a lot of people are saying that places are sold out of the album and that they have seen a lot of people buying it. Taking those stories into account, those estimates might be low!

Just wait till tuesday for the official numbers. 180,000 to 200,000+ would be a welcome reward.

One big plus for Prince is that this album is appealing to an older audience than Mario Winans, and older audiences usually tend to buy an album over the course of the week, instead of snatching it up on the first day. Those sales estimates are based on first-day sales, and Prince had an MTV special on this weekend plus VH-1's "The Best Week Ever." So 'Musicology' might've sold steadier over the full week than Mario's 'Hurt No More.' Who knows? Either way, Prince is likely to have his highest charting album since 'Diamonds & Pearls' in 1991. Woo-hoo!

Right now on Amazon.com, Musicology is the #4 best selling CD (it was number 3 earlier).
Mario Winans is #100.
Pretting interesting.

TheGoldExperience's

signature said:

What's funny is that since he finally got some business-savvy and found a way to sell records, you can't admit that Prince finally pulled one over on the system. Each "giveaway" should count as a sales since the cost is actually included in the ticket price.

TheGoldExperience said:

I agree. It's like Prince is saying, if you want to see me in concert, you HAVE to buy my album and make me look good on the charts!

Prince should try and 'sell' even more records this way - have a club, where the entry fee includes the cost of the album and free drinks. Where will it end? Certainly other acts will follow and the price of concert tickets is going to shoot up even further.

The thing is, I thought Prince giving everybody who attended a concert a copy of the album was an act of generosity and good promotion - like publicly giving to charity, say. Now it is coming across as a business driven ploy to boost sales figures.

I agree. It's like Prince is saying, if you want to see me in concert, you HAVE to buy my album and make me look good on the charts!

Prince should try and 'sell' even more records this way - have a club, where the entry fee includes the cost of the album and free drinks. Where will it end? Certainly other acts will follow and the price of concert tickets is going to shoot up even further.

The thing is, I thought Prince giving everybody who attended a concert a copy of the album was an act of generosity and good promotion - like publicly giving to charity, say. Now it is coming across as a business driven ploy to boost sales figures.[/quote]


are the tickets that much more expensive though? i mean, i can understood abit how come you're so pissed off, is this the fourth thread you've put this message in (in certain variants?) ive looked at it on the billboard charts and the tickets dont seem that much more expensive (ie they dont seem $10 more expensive across the board).
personally i think "giving away" the cds is great, but i understand how the perception of it being a giveaway makes it abit disappointing in one sense that he's actually including it in the price of the ticket. what would be weird would be if everyone did that to get in the top 40 you'd probably need to be on tour!

metalorange said:

Prince's music isn't "charity"....this is a business PERIOD. Why should he "give" his music away in these sorts of numbers. lawdy.....

softandwet said:

I'm not pissed off - I'm discussing this issue - this is a Prince discussion site. I've put up comments in four threads because people keep starting new threads! And some people just keep pasting what they wrote in the previous threads whereas at least I write fresh!

As I said, I'm happy this will mean Prince gets higher in the charts, I just think it is a little sneaky, it will perhaps be more a measure of how popular the concerts are rather than how popular the actual album appeals to people.

And clearly the ticket price DOES include the cost of the album because that's what makes it elligible for chart inclusion, as opposed to just giving the album away on the street.

Rhondab said:



I never said Prince's music was charity, I was trying to explain that giving CDs away could be similar to giving to charity, in the sense that it is an 'altruistic' gesture but you also can benefit from the associated publicity. If I'm hungry and a guy offers me an apple for free, I say, "Gee that guy is generous, what a cool gesture, much kudos" whereas if he offered me an apple and made me pay for it, well obviously it ceases to be a generous gesture. The giving away of this album was inititally seen as a generous offer that was even more special because it would probably harm Prince's sales of Musicology. Now you can only look at it the other way, that it is a ploy to maker a bigger splash on the charts.

I'm not annoyed at Prince for doing good business - I'm more annoyed with the billboard people for allowing this new strategy to be included as I think it will set a precedent that will be abused in times to come and lead to the album charts becoming meaningless.
[This message was edited Sun Apr 25 10:04:02 2004 by metalorange]

TheGoldExperience said:

That's part of the illusion. People think that the album is selling better than it really is. If not for the shows, the sales figures would be a hell of a lot lower.

EvilWhiteMale said:

the same old speech ,ah, Migraine Boy? Man...ur life must really shit!! ho ho ho

go2theMax said:

And what is your life like if you keep responding to me? Keep it up son.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Tsk, tsk, tsk, some of you people just can't give Prince credit for shit. All this "it's an illusion, it didn't really sell" garbage is quite laughable! Prince is pimping the industry that has pimped the fuck out of him and other artists and their talent for decades. I don't give a damn how he gets the job done as long as he continues to do it and do it well!

For the record, it only matters to his damn bank account! No matter how you count it, he's pocketing a fucking fleet load of cash! Bravo!!! Long may His Royal Badness Reign!!!

EvilWhiteMale said:

I know..mamma always told me to never make fun on trouble-minded people...sorry! but it's beyond my control !!ho ho ho!!!

SexyBeautifulOne said:

Okay, but just don't get excited if the record sales seem high.

go2theMax said:

Well if it's beyond your control, then you have an addiction and an obsession with me. I think you need more help than I do.

EvilWhiteMale said:

Why do you always think that people have an obsession with you just because they respond to your posts? It seems that you have a lack of real-life relationships with people. Not everyone who communicates with you in real life would have an obsession with you. You are clearly over-estimating your very own impact and you ignore the fact that people seem to enjoy to play around with silly provocation and ignorance. But obsession? Hell no!

Ubiquity said:

hhhmmmmm

Mazerati said:

No, I don't think you've "got it"! It's not a sale if you're giving an album away! And Billboard's "cycle" isn't talking about album sales, they're talking about their boxscore - which lists the top 10 highest grossing concerts on any given week.

And since you're into nitpicking, you should notice that this week's concert attendance figures are roughly 100,000 tickets sold. The Columbia show isn't the only concert that ridiculously qualifies as a sale towards this week's debut.

The Bottom Line: Subtract this week's concert attendance figures from the estimated sales projection (if it's right?) and you'll get the amount of CDs Musicology has sold in it's debut week.

Got it?

aren't you the one who was insisting the arenas would be half empty most places?

TheGoldExperience said:

Now you're pointing to the high ticket sales to suggest the album isn't selling well.

If you read the article that says the albums people get at the concert would count in the billboard numbers, it clearly states that because of the different cycles, the verification needed, and the long standing convention of not counting albums distributed before the official release date, only the April 21 show of 17,500 will count towards the first weeks sales. Going forward, clearly more will count, which should be enough while he's touring to keep the album in the top 10 before any retail sales.

Which is better - to sell a $9.95 retail album or to sell a $75 concert ticket? If about 1 million people go to the concerts and get the album, why shouldn't that count towards the total distribution for the album? Aren't people who pay $75 making more of a statement than those paying $10?

If you just want to know how it's doing retail, watch this space tomorrow

http://www.hitsdailydoubl...lescht.cgi

This should show the retail sales numbers as the reports come in, starting at 7:30 am monday. I'm expecting the album to debut top 3 before any concert CDs are factored in.

It's been in the top 5 all week at amazon, it's #2 at best buy

http://www.bestbuy.com/si...egory&cmp=

alandail said:

I'm mostly right with my predictions regarding our tedious concert attendance debate for this tour. The only markets that are doing better than I expected are around one dozen (basically major markets only). And only around 25% of the shows have sold out. Just like I said.

alandail said:

Well, it's wrong. That's convoluted music industry BS. I mean look what it says! Verification needed? All you have to do is take a calculator and add the attendances for that particular week! Unless you're a retard you don't need to sit on it for a week for it to apparently count as a sale! Billboard is a chart that deals with weekly sales. And as to why they're agreeing to this ridiculous setup for Prince of counting giveaways as actual sales is funniest thing I've ever heard of! It's bullshit! Let's see how many people would pay for a ticket where it gives you the option of purchasing a ticket without the album and the option of purchasing a ticket with the album. Then we'll see just how many hard-cord fans Prince has.

alandail said:

Better? How about both ways. Like most artists do. And it's shouldn't count because people don't have a choice if they want to buy the album with the ticket or not! What if people don't like their giveaway? I don't even know why I'm debating this topic, as like I said in the above paragraph - it's the most ridiculous arrangement I've ever seen. I can't believe people think they should count as actual sales. LOL



Whatever that number will be, subtract 100,000 to that figure.
[This message was edited Sun Apr 25 23:15:13 2004 by TheGoldExperience]
[This message was edited Sun Apr 25 23:15:59 2004 by TheGoldExperience]

you're not paying attention at all, are you - they clearly stated that only 17,500 will count towards this weeks numbers because the totals for the rest of the dates aren't reported in time due to the difference in concert reporting and retail reporting cycles.

btw: the sellout rate is closer to 40% (at least 8 of the 20 shows to date were sellouts, and at least 5 of the next 12 are already sold out), but please, don't start that debate again.

The 17,500 number assumes another sellout, but it's unclear if the 17,500 will be part of the link I gave. I think that link is just retail sales.

alandail said:

And you're not carefully reading what I just stated in my previous post. Get a calculator or ask the promoter of the shows...there's your verification!



What do you want me to do then? Not reply to the fact that you're wrong and that only 4 (Dallas, Phoenix, LA & Reno) of the 18 shows on this tour so far have sold out. Btw, I'm mainly talking about the overall amount of shows that have sold out which is..naaaaah you know what I'm going to say!



Columbia, SC didn't sellout according to the newspaper review, which stated 17,000. And they probably rounded it off to that number (as newspapers always do), so there was most likely a few hundred less than that there.