BlaqueKnight said:

Wow I've tried to avoid opening up that can of woims for so long. And you came and blew the lid of that sucka

"prince was as influenced by JB as dangelo was by prince"

you keep dreaming. Prince is and was much more original than dangelo will ever be. If you listen to an album like Parade, LoveSexy, The Gold Experience or TRC (apart from The work) and say Prince is stealing from JB you got no ears. Prince work is too much diverse for you to say he stole from one person. You can say he stoel from 5 persons but if you can mix 5 artists you can be sure you´re being original. But if you are going after a particular sound that others did before you´re just a copycat. I am not saying DAngelo only borrows from Prince, but he barely goes beyound the neo/soul and soul format. So he is not doing anything new, i even dare to say he never did anything Prince hasn´t done before. And you cannot say Prince never did anything james(or any other artist) haven´t done before.

7salles said:

See this is a case where folks only judge what they see at face value. Have you heard his rendition of "She's Always In My Hair"? How about the live rendition of "Shit, Damn, Motherfucker"? Or the live rendition of "Be Here" with Raphael Saadiq? I encourage you to find them because these are all scorching rock renditions that prove D'Angelo isn't just limited to neo/soul.

Holy God, She´s is always in my hair is not his song. And the other songs are live renditions, i don´t question the skills of his band to play other styles, i am sure they are competent musicans that can play almost any style, I am saying that HIS compositions BARELY goes outside the soul/neo format. But you can prove me wrong. i don´t know half of his songs, but from what i heard he is generic.
[This message was edited Fri May 7 13:08:19 2004 by 7salles]

BlaqueKnight said:

co-sign on all points.

7salles said:

with all due respect, you must seriously not know much about soul or funk. dangelo doesnt sound like prince. name me one prince album that voodoo or brown sugar (if youve even heard those) sounds like. its impossible. dangelo doesnt sound like one mere artist either, hes way more original than that. dangelo has done lots prince has done before, simply because he makes soul music, prince doesnt. theyre not even working in the same genres or with the same aims.

7salles said:

who cares if his songs dont go out the soul/neo soul format (they do by the way, he incorporates strands of jazz, funk, gospel in his work as well)? he is a SOUL artist. this does not by default make him generic. again, do some soul homework please.

I care, cause you can´t compare cats who does all kind of things like Prince, with limited guys like D Angelo, D is talented. BUt he is not Prince, he is no hendrix, he isn´t even no BECK.

7salles said:

the only people obsessed with comparing him are prince fans. dangelo fans arent saying that d is better than prince. dangelo isnt even saying hes better than prince. and prince is a fan of dangelo as well, has everyone forgotten the namedrop in get yo groove on?

if (rock/mainstream) critics compare d to prince, its because they compare every black male artist who plays instruments to prince. theyre even saying van hunt is the new prince. its their only frame of reference.

also, d is only TWO albums deep in his career, its not even fair to say hes 'limited' at this early stage. and he encompasses a decent amount of range in his particular genre, so what if he isnt working in a million differnet styles on each album like prince or beck. thats what they do, doesnt necessarily mean that approach is better.
[This message was edited Fri May 7 13:58:27 2004 by funkbabyandthebabysitters]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

People hate on D all day long on this site. Fact is, he is the father of the neo-soul movement. All tthis talk of "diversity" is code for...okay...I won't go there. The lack of respect for soul is pungent on this site. True "soulheads" and R&B heads KNOW the difference and understand that D is not doing what say...Usher, is doing. Its all about understanding the genre. Prince never "conquered" soul, he made it less of an element in his sound, but added enough here and there to make it appear to have it covered. D is all up on the genre in its entirety. Its funny how fools blurt out the term "typical" when it comes to R&B, but rock gets to be diverse. If somebody said that The Strokes, The Vines, Rooney and Jet all sound like the same sh*t, they'd get flamed to high hell. Don't sweat the nonesense. The main ones bitchin' about D probably don't even know the music of the artists that influenced him.
[This message was edited Fri May 7 14:17:00 2004 by BlaqueKnight]

BlaqueKnight said:

you said it all. i salute you, lol. co-sign on the 'typical' comment. but forget about not knowing about the wealth and diversity of everyone that influenced d (and d has covered different styles on his albums, most people are just deaf to that), most prince fans dont even know or care about all the different types of artists that heavily influenced prince.
[This message was edited Fri May 7 14:22:33 2004 by funkbabyandthebabysitters]
[This message was edited Fri May 7 14:22:51 2004 by funkbabyandthebabysitters]

BlaqueKnight said:

No...all those guys do sound like the same shit!

Sill don't like D'angelo

7salles said:

amen..but I do think his band (and D) are only mediocre.

neronava said:

have you heard them live? do you know what a soul or funk band is meant to sound like?

BlaqueKnight said:

psykosoul said:

very well said my friend...this really struck a cord with me because I have noticed the same thing on this site

"Its funny how fools blurt out the term "typical" when it comes to R&B, but rock gets to be diverse. If somebody said that The Strokes, The Vines, Rooney and Jet all sound like the same sh*t, they'd get flamed to high hell."
[This message was edited Fri May 7 16:27:35 2004 by Alexandernvrmind]

thirstinhowlVIII said:

I currently play in a art punk rock soul band for myself (that dabbles & adds alot of funk electric miles type jazz) but I've done alot of session work, & live work with Femi Kuti, Charlie Hunter, Josh Redman, Michael Brecker, & The Coup. My background & interests would lead u to believe that I'm strictly a art rock guy...but when i want to use my chops I prefer funk and soul...funner to play.
So yeah dude...I think I do. Sup with you?

BlaqueKnight said:

I have to disagree with some of what you say. There was big discussion of my use of the word "typical" in the R&B context so I guess here's me defending my use of the word "typical". First things first the whole term "neo-soul" is a complete fallacy. Soul music is one of the earliest and purest forms of contemporary popular music. The term neo-soul is supposed to refer to "new" soul (or neo) but the whole "new" is sounding like old. But soul music is such a rich varied style of music that all artists have there own take on this "genre". It actually defies the term "genre". So when these cats claim to "neo-soul" cuz they got a cool record collection and emulate older artists that doesn't make them or "neo-soul" credible as ARTISTS. Soul music is drenched in tradition, but it was about stretching out...thats how new music styles are born (Gospel & the Blues became soul, rock, rock-a-billy, country etc. and all intertwined). But where some of these younger artists with the cool record collections get in trouble is when they don't expand on content...when it all starts having a "sound". Otis redding didn't sound like Sam Cooke-but there was a influence there...and a expansion. Prince doesn't sound like James but there is influence there. It was expanded. I just don't thing D'Angelo's hip-hop posturing, ASR 10 drenched production and urban slang doesn't warrant any cred as being any sort of soul visionionary (of course just my take).

And I think Rock music suffers from the same thing, maybe even worse then the soul artists. I think in a whole there isn't much variety in music. I think the greats have been the ones who challenged people to stretch the home genre (Sam Cooke, Hendrix, Lennon, Miles, Bowie, James, George, & Prince) Its all clear they were influenced and sometimes downright copying, but they all had the personality & artistry to make a stamp on things and make things fresh when old genres get stale. They made roads, not repave them.

Nero

So in conclusion: I think its about artistry not genres. Art is about defying tradition but retaining its fundamental values.

neronava said:

1. Prince sequences and samples as much as D'. Actually MORE; case and point - the "Scam of the Year" tour. All those background vocals came from SOMEWHERE. Prince only has one voice and can only sing one part ata atime. D plays instruments LIVE just like Prince does. He's a lot more mellow than Prince, but he's also a LOT more soulful. Go listen to "Me and Those Dreaming Eyes.." and tell me D ain't got no soul. If you can do that, you're deaf. So you don't like him. Fine. I don't like R. Kelly. I'm not going to try to dpwnplay his ability to write songs that appeal to the masses just because I don't like him. He's a hitmaker. I respect him for it. Don't try to downplay D because you don't like him. He's got skillz and is a visionary. Folks are copying him now. Maybe YOU just don't recognize it.

BlaqueKnight said:

Not sure what your point is with the whole sequencing bit...cuz I mentioned the ASR10? Okay. I'm glad u picked up on the point of my long reply (sarcasm). In if the was in reference to my ASR comment, the whole background vocals thing has nothing to do with ASR's. So...ummm what are u talking about?

& I don't respect people cuz the can appeal to the masses, thats not a sign of an artist to me. That just shows people relate to a performer...which is a talent. But hits don't dazzle me.

All I said about D'Angelo is I don't like him (and I named several reasons). I'm definetly not deaf. I just think he's wack. Man, goddamn a person can't have a preference. Do u tell someone they don't have the sense of taste when they don't like the same food as you. On a pure aesthetic level-D'angelo doesn't do it for me. And I have my reasons, be it: lack of musicianship, lack of innovation or to much salt or pepper. Get mature chief...i


Nero

I have in my WMP a guy named "D'Angelo" but only 1 song

"Brown Sugar"
Album-Mix #2

That song wuz also in da movie "Thin Line Between Love & Hate" starring Martin Lawrence. Is that the same guy ya'll talkin' 'bout?

KeLo07 said:

Yep.

BlaqueKnight said:

Oh aight.thanx. The song is okay 2 listen 2..rarely gets played,it wuz popular as hell in da 90s.

neronava said:

Whatever, man. Like I said, YOU don't recognize the skillz. Stay in Princeland.

[This message was edited Fri May 7 22:54:42 2004 by BlaqueKnight]

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

I think that D'Angelo should have more albums in his catalog. He has only had 2 albums in 8 yrs.

neronava said:

ill be the first to tell you that a lot of new neo soul has been lacklustre and bringing nothing new that we havent heard before. but dangelo is head and shoulders above the likes of musiq and his ilk. i mean, its great if you know about old soul, but if you know nothing about the new wave of neo soul (and neo doesntnt mean new), you might not understand where d fits in. hes far more original than his peers. the first wave of neo soul artists like him and erykah badu are probably still the standard bearers. hes not really a hip hop posturing guy (unlike r kelly who is an R&B artist) and his second album isnt drenched in the ASR10 at all. only one song on there has drum programming. he's a lot more 'live' sounding than prince actually. prince has been subservient to programming since 1982. and if you cant hear that d (despite some of his less than perfect songwriting chops) is trying to 'defy tradition and retain its fundamental values' theres nothing i can do for you. thats the one thing d DOES do.
[This message was edited Sat May 8 3:39:04 2004 by funkbabyandthebabysitters]

Let´s stop the discussion, there is no sense in comparing them. Like someone said they dig each other and they always goes to different directions. But, anyway. Is liek comparing stevie wonder and lenny kravitz.

Wow...the fierceness of this discussion goes to show me that neo soul will most likely never get respect from the insensitive mainstream as it stands today.

In reality there should be twice the media coverage on the neo soul movement, which is really a cultural movement in black america today, as Chris Rock said " between the brothers & the n**gaz, & the n**gaz have got to GO!!! "

They would rather disregard our rare successful young black musicians as ripoff artists yet not acknowledge the current struggle to get real BLACK musicians out of the gate (ie: non-rap). It is harder than ever to find a young "prince", "george", "jimi" or "james" today for reasons others take for granted: little investment in inner city music programs, racism, inopportunity, MTV monolthic global dominant mind warping of the young negro's self image..I could go on.Pointless.

We cherish neo soul as a matchstick light for self respect in the thick darkness of passe thug music by other black performers (Ashanti, Nelly, I could go on.pointless.)

Pardon us for strivin'. Damn.

That's allrite, though. Mainstream would poison the message, anyway.

pdubble said:

but the lable "neo-soul": it's a stigma.
it sounds so gay, you know? all this talk of being the positive,
conscious, sensitive artist. it's crap! these guys can be fierce too.
give it up already.
[This message was edited Sat May 8 5:42:09 2004 by purpleone]

purpleone said:

agreed.the movement is too important for a weak title. neo was kinda fay in matrix anyway. how bout the 'soul movement'?