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Printable"Genius" doesn't necessarily mean musical. MJ is a performing genius. At the height of his talent, he was the world's greatest entertainer. Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016
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chiltonmusic said: GrayKing said: he's blazed no trails in that regard. he may be the loudest one screaming about it, but what has it gotten him? nothing. not ownership of his masters, that's for sure. other artists, like U2, REM, and Metallica successfully negotiated ownership of their masters right around the same time Prince started making a lot of noise about it. THOSE are the trailblazers. they actually accomplished it, by realizing that it was something they had to buy or sacrifice for. Prince on the other hand, was just screaming that he wanted them back, with no mention of paying to get them back. and why WOULD they just hand them over? they paid for them, why would they just give them away? I don't think failure at a goal means that you can't influence outcomes. I also have to say this. Those artist you menitoned are white. Prince is not. We all know that the industry treats the two differently. Hell the fact that all these guys have their master is proof of that. Also Prince did hip alot of young black aritst to own thier masters. That is trailblazing. Prince went to such extremes because they did not heed his wishes. Peace that "they're white, and he's black" argument is bullshit. the difference between the artists i named and Prince is that they're smart enough to realize they were paid for those master recordings in the first place, so they're going to have to pay to get them back. Prince hasn't figured that out. he doesn't want to fork over the amount of cash they want for them. and he left the label, so there were no future contract negotiations to look forward to in hopes of getting them back (ie, by taking a smaller royalty rate in exchange for ownership of the masters, etc.) to make this a race issue is absolutely ignorant and a severe cop out. "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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MJ a genius? ..."what a laugh".
The day Prince works with that molester will be the day I buy my last Prince album. Period.  MJ fams need their eyes surgically opened.Thanks for the laughs, arguments and overall enjoyment for the last umpteen years. It's time for me to retire from Prince.org and engage in the real world...lol. Above all, I appreciated the talent Prince. You were one of a kind. | |
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GrayKing said: chiltonmusic said: I don't think failure at a goal means that you can't influence outcomes. I also have to say this. Those artist you menitoned are white. Prince is not. We all know that the industry treats the two differently. Hell the fact that all these guys have their master is proof of that. Also Prince did hip alot of young black aritst to own thier masters. That is trailblazing. Prince went to such extremes because they did not heed his wishes. Peace that "they're white, and he's black" argument is bullshit. the difference between the artists i named and Prince is that they're smart enough to realize they were paid for those master recordings in the first place, so they're going to have to pay to get them back. Prince hasn't figured that out. he doesn't want to fork over the amount of cash they want for them. and he left the label, so there were no future contract negotiations to look forward to in hopes of getting them back (ie, by taking a smaller royalty rate in exchange for ownership of the masters, etc.) to make this a race issue is absolutely ignorant and a severe cop out. Your absolutely right it happened to the beatles Prince was 17 he didn't know what he was signing but u'd think they'd have the decency to draw up a sensible Contract! but the industry is not about being decent its about making Money | |
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GrayKing said: chiltonmusic said: I don't think failure at a goal means that you can't influence outcomes. I also have to say this. Those artist you menitoned are white. Prince is not. We all know that the industry treats the two differently. Hell the fact that all these guys have their master is proof of that. Also Prince did hip alot of young black aritst to own thier masters. That is trailblazing. Prince went to such extremes because they did not heed his wishes. Peace that "they're white, and he's black" argument is bullshit. the difference between the artists i named and Prince is that they're smart enough to realize they were paid for those master recordings in the first place, so they're going to have to pay to get them back. Prince hasn't figured that out. he doesn't want to fork over the amount of cash they want for them. and he left the label, so there were no future contract negotiations to look forward to in hopes of getting them back (ie, by taking a smaller royalty rate in exchange for ownership of the masters, etc.) to make this a race issue is absolutely ignorant and a severe cop out. Well actually to not bring the race issue into it is the cop out. I know you think you know more about Prince's business dealings than him but I doubt it. Also I don't see the point in trying to pretend that racism does not exist in the music industry. What is a cop out about that? If the discussion makes you uncomfortable that is your cross to bear not mine. You can go all the way back to Pat Boone and Little Richard and see examples of racism in this industry. That argument can be made in Prince's battles for his masters. I know of U2's battle but David Bowie was offered his. Prince never was in terms he felt was fair. Ignorance is when you don't want to or have any knowledge of the subject that you are speaking of. I know racism. I know music and I know Prince's struggle so that by itself can't be ignorance. To try and act like that can't be a factor at all is ignorance. I am saddend but not surprised by your inability to see that. You do know that race politics is in every part of american life, and it is bigger than not wanting to live with black folks in you neighborhood. Maybe 30 years from now you will be able to see that race had something to with this battle. It may not be the biggest part but it is some part. THE CARDINAL HAS SPOKEN!!! | |
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Luv4oneanotha said: GrayKing said: that "they're white, and he's black" argument is bullshit. the difference between the artists i named and Prince is that they're smart enough to realize they were paid for those master recordings in the first place, so they're going to have to pay to get them back. Prince hasn't figured that out. he doesn't want to fork over the amount of cash they want for them. and he left the label, so there were no future contract negotiations to look forward to in hopes of getting them back (ie, by taking a smaller royalty rate in exchange for ownership of the masters, etc.) to make this a race issue is absolutely ignorant and a severe cop out. Your absolutely right it happened to the beatles Prince was 17 he didn't know what he was signing but u'd think they'd have the decency to draw up a sensible Contract! but the industry is not about being decent its about making Money a sensible contract is exactly what he got when he was 17. he even thanks WB at his RRHOF induction for going out on a limb and letting some unproven talent write, record, and produce all of his own stuff. and a sensible contract is what he got in 1992 when he signed up again. it's not Warner Bros. fault that Prince was an idiot and fired his agents, managers, and legal team, before going in to negotiate. even on top of all of that stupidity, he got a pretty fucking sweet deal. reportely the biggest in history at the time... hell, they even made him a VP at the label and threw even more money down that trap he called Paisley Park Records. it wasn't until about late 93 and early 94 that he really started bitching. he'd cashed the checks, and blew all of it on ridiculous bullshit like Glam Slam clubs, NPG stores, and for dozens of videos for songs that weren't even going to see the light of day, all the while the law of diminishing returns on his music was taking effect. D&P had been something of a promise on his part to the label, that he could still come up with the goods, and that people were still going to buy it. but immediately after signing the contract, the  albums is a relative flop. then all of a sudden, he's whining and moaning about how poorly he's being treated. instead of biding his time by living up to the contract HE negotiated and HE signed, until the next one was due up, he decided he wanted out. now, if he'd actually cared about ownership of his masters in 1992, he would have settled for a smaller upfront paycheck, and negotiated that as part of the deal. but he didn't. because he didn't care. he didn't even start talking about ownership of his masters until 1996, AFTER he'd gotten out of the contract and was a free agent, and suddenly realized that he didn't own that stuff. there is no one to blame for the mess, but Prince. and the fact that he doesn't seem interested in actually trying to buy them back or negotiate co-ownership of them after all these years indicates that he hasn't matured on the subject and that he still thinks they should just give them back because he says so. sorry prince. they paid for it. they own it. should have thought of that before you fired all of the people that handled your business for you, and before you cashed that huge check."Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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chiltonmusic said: GrayKing said: that "they're white, and he's black" argument is bullshit. the difference between the artists i named and Prince is that they're smart enough to realize they were paid for those master recordings in the first place, so they're going to have to pay to get them back. Prince hasn't figured that out. he doesn't want to fork over the amount of cash they want for them. and he left the label, so there were no future contract negotiations to look forward to in hopes of getting them back (ie, by taking a smaller royalty rate in exchange for ownership of the masters, etc.) to make this a race issue is absolutely ignorant and a severe cop out. Well actually to not bring the race issue into it is the cop out. I know you think you know more about Prince's business dealings than him but I doubt it. Also I don't see the point in trying to pretend that racism does not exist in the music industry. What is a cop out about that? If the discussion makes you uncomfortable that is your cross to bear not mine. You can go all the way back to Pat Boone and Little Richard and see examples of racism in this industry. That argument can be made in Prince's battles for his masters. I know of U2's battle but David Bowie was offered his. Prince never was in terms he felt was fair. Ignorance is when you don't want to or have any knowledge of the subject that you are speaking of. I know racism. I know music and I know Prince's struggle so that by itself can't be ignorance. To try and act like that can't be a factor at all is ignorance. I am saddend but not surprised by your inability to see that. You do know that race politics is in every part of american life, and it is bigger than not wanting to live with black folks in you neighborhood. Maybe 30 years from now you will be able to see that race had something to with this battle. It may not be the biggest part but it is some part. Prince thought his contract was extremely fair, until he blew all the money and started going bankrupt in 1994. in the end, if he wants ownership of his masters, he's going to have to do one of the three things anyone else that wants them would have to do: 1) buy them back (if he's got the money). 2) go to court (though if he had a legal leg to stand on, he would've already. we know how lawsuit-happy he's been for the last 8 years) 3) negotiate it in a new contract (that option seems to have passed). none of this has anything to do with race. the people I named either fought hard for or sacrificed a lot, or hey, get this novel idea... actually PAID FOR them in order to own them. why should Prince be any different? [This message was edited Fri Apr 23 7:44:52 2004 by GrayKing] "Awards are like hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, every asshole gets one." | |
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Revolution said: MJ fams need their eyes surgically opened.and their pupils bleached!   Proud member of Prince's cult for 20 years! | |
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GrayKing said: chiltonmusic said: Well actually to not bring the race issue into it is the cop out. I know you think you know more about Prince's business dealings than him but I doubt it. Also I don't see the point in trying to pretend that racism does not exist in the music industry. What is a cop out about that? If the discussion makes you uncomfortable that is your cross to bear not mine. You can go all the way back to Pat Boone and Little Richard and see examples of racism in this industry. That argument can be made in Prince's battles for his masters. I know of U2's battle but David Bowie was offered his. Prince never was in terms he felt was fair. Ignorance is when you don't want to or have any knowledge of the subject that you are speaking of. I know racism. I know music and I know Prince's struggle so that by itself can't be ignorance. To try and act like that can't be a factor at all is ignorance. I am saddend but not surprised by your inability to see that. You do know that race politics is in every part of american life, and it is bigger than not wanting to live with black folks in you neighborhood. Maybe 30 years from now you will be able to see that race had something to with this battle. It may not be the biggest part but it is some part. Prince thought his contract was extremely fair, until he blew all the money and started going bankrupt in 1994. in the end, if he wants ownership of his masters, he's going to have to do one of the three things anyone else that wants them would have to do: 1) buy them back (if he's got the money). 2) go to court (though if he had a legal leg to stand on, he would've already. we know how lawsuit-happy he's been for the last 8 years) 3) negotiate it in a new contract (that option seems to have passed). none of this has anything to do with race. the people I named either fought hard for or sacrificed a lot, or hey, get this novel idea... actually PAID FOR them in order to own them. why should Prince be any different? [This message was edited Fri Apr 23 7:44:52 2004 by GrayKing] Yes I agree with the approach but I honestly think the man has tried that. See "fair price" is probably where the bitching started in the first place. You know the record industry regardless of race is a evil bastard. I think the concept of race being an issue really started to take place in the time period you mentioned in the post above. I also think Prince has sacrificed alot in this battle. Hell hey could have stayed cushy at Warners but he spoke out instead. The whole battle over Vince with MJ was that they said they spent x amount of dollars on promotion and Mike said show me the reciepts. That effectively endend his career with Sony. I just think shit like that is more than happenstance and I do belive that race comes into play on some level. As you can see those guys were negotiated with and a deal came to pass. Warners has been hurting ever since Prince left them. I reckon that they as a company might have lost more money since Prince left than if they had just made him happy in the first place. Now they are about to loose Madonna. That shit over for them if that happens. Anyway that was my point that race factors into this on some level cause I honestly believe he went into this thing thinking a deal could be reached. I mean don't you? Peace THE CARDINAL HAS SPOKEN!!! | |
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Yes I agree with the approach but I honestly think the man has tried that. See "fair price" is probably where the bitching started in the first place. You know the record industry regardless of race is a evil bastard. I think the concept of race being an issue really started to take place in the time period you mentioned in the post above. I also think Prince has sacrificed alot in this battle. Hell hey could have stayed cushy at Warners but he spoke out instead. The whole battle over Vince with MJ was that they said they spent x amount of dollars on promotion and Mike said show me the reciepts. That effectively endend his career with Sony. I just think shit like that is more than happenstance and I do belive that race comes into play on some level. As you can see those guys were negotiated with and a deal came to pass. Warners has been hurting ever since Prince left them. I reckon that they as a company might have lost more money since Prince left than if they had just made him happy in the first place. Now they are about to loose Madonna. That shit over for them if that happens. Anyway that was my point that race factors into this on some level cause I honestly believe he went into this thing thinking a deal could be reached. I mean don't you?
Peace ps sorry I had to post that twice I keep making the same mistakes today. THE CARDINAL HAS SPOKEN!!! | |
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prince and mj are both genuises
u can take that to the grave | |
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Micheal Jackson is in a hard place in his lif ewright now, and maybe the insider scoop is that he is the victim of opportunist grifters, and maybe Prince doesn't want to dump anymore shit on him to be nice...
Or maybe Jackson is guilty, but Prince still doesn't want to dump any more shit on him. My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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WildStyle said: CrozzaUK said: I agree, MJ has a lot of natrual talent, to sing and to dance, but his musical and sognwriting talent isnt in the same league as Princes. MJ did change the face of the music indutry between 79-84, but since then his talent hasn't been evident. His music since then has been inconsistent, quality wise, and so scarce. He's only made 4 albums since Thriller, that is an appauling record for an artist. Bad, Dangerous and HIStory were great. The "new" material on Blood On The Dance Floor was great. Invincible was a little shaky. I agree that 4(5) albums since 1982 is not a good turnover. On the plus side, there are hundreds of unreleased MJ songs in the vaults. [This message was edited Fri Apr 23 6:33:51 2004 by WildStyle] I've heard quite a few Michael Jackson outtakes and in a word, they're awful, no where near the standard of some of Princes. If you think about it this way, if Prince took all the best material from each album he releases over a 4 year period, you can guarentee it would produce a record that would blow away anything Jacko could come up with. All MJ albums since Thriller have featured filler on them, HIStory and Invincible in particular. I will always maintain that MJ is a performer who in his peak (1978-1984) wrote some excellent songs, but at his worst, is a sad parody of himself. The same melodies, the same vocal expressions, the same dance moves, the same styles - sometimes he's just so damn corny it makes me want to vomm. He's just not interesting as a performer anymore. IMHO he was 'over' as a performer the day his personal life became more interesting than his music (circa 1987). Michael is not a musician. Im sure he can play the odd instrument to a reasonbable standard, but if he was any good, hed do it on stage or in the studio and he doesnt. He relies (and always has relied) on producers and other songwriters, something prince has never done. To sum up my feelings, I think MJ is a pop performer in the same vein as Britney or Justin, just more natrually talented. Prince however is an artist. | |
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WildStyle said: He was asked in one word, what does he think of Michael Jackson. He replied, "Genius".
Well, he didn't actually say "musical genius", did he? Let's fill in the blank: Michael Jackson is a ..... genius. See what I mean? For all we know, he could be a "genius" of "illusion" in Prince's head. An evil, twisted genius - Like Dr. Evil. | |
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 Very good for him, shows he has style and maturity. | |
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He could have ment Genius of staying famous with no talent? those "bi-weekly Jacko Stunts" add up  If you notice Britney does them now, JLO,etc.. all the non musicans who lip sync everywhere
No seriously, Prince is a musican he is above all this stupid crap! He knew what the host wanted & Prince really can careless.. He isn't the one having a hard-on for MJ, it is the other way around. | |
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riverdean7 said: prince and mj are both genuises
u can take that to the grave well said the rest of you are blinded by your own implications on MJ If Prince Says he thinks MJ's a Genuis thenhe thinks Mj's a genuis | |
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Luv4oneanotha said: riverdean7 said: prince and mj are both genuises
u can take that to the grave well said the rest of you are blinded by your own implications on MJ If Prince Says he thinks MJ's a Genuis thenhe thinks Mj's a genuis ----- "you have 2 be a prince b4 u become king anyway" mj scary man, dont even enter the same timezone as P, stay away!..lol \o/\o/ ° The Breakdown = Best Prince song for 20 years |
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Well MJ has a brilliant career regardless of his current statis. He's great singer ,entaintainer and has been a good song writer. I think the word 'GENIUS' is thrown around too much. Personally I see neither Prince or MJ as geniuses but great talents.
Judging by both of their current releases non are geniuses musically at this point. They both their time regardless of present status. | |
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"Well MJ has a brilliant career regardless of his current statis. He's great singer ,entaintainer and has been a good song writer. I think the word 'GENIUS' is thrown around too much. Personally I see neither Prince or MJ as geniuses but great talents.
Judging by both of their current releases non are geniuses musically at this point. They both their time regardless of present status." I meant "had" in both instances....LOL | |
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Thumparello said: "Well MJ has a brilliant career regardless of his current statis. He's great singer ,entaintainer and has been a good song writer. I think the word 'GENIUS' is thrown around too much. Personally I see neither Prince or MJ as geniuses but great talents.
Judging by both of their current releases non are geniuses musically at this point. They both their time regardless of present status." I meant "had" in both instances....LOL Current releases ain't got nothin to do with it. A genius is James Brown, Stevie Wonder, Prince, and MJ was a long time ago. What are you saying Britney Spears is a genius because she shakes her ass and dances around half naked. Present status ain't got nothin to do with it. They are geniuses whether you say so or not. | |
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WHY WON'T THEY POST THESE FUCKING INTERVIEWS??!!!   I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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mj is a genious prince is a genious
mj has written the best pop,rock,soul songs ever prince is a genius...the guy can play 34 instruments(am i right?) Some Prince freakazoids must stop being so hardcore and open ther eyes to see and respect other great talents too! | |
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There are very few REAL musicians...MJ weather u want to admit it or not was a geneious...he is portrayed as one because of media, but look at it, almost everyone can somehow relate to his music...so it really depends how u look at "geneious"...prince is a "geneious" because he stuck to what he believed in...and made it "Too much freedom can lead to the soul's decay"
-Prince | |
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MJ is a REAL Musician
and im not talking about producinghis music he plays guitar drums and took piano lessons at request of his mother just Because MJ isn't a genuis with instruments like prince doesn't mean that it should be overlooked? Problem is People don't wanna see MJ playing instruments well his fans only want to see him dance his ass off me personally i would love if mj just sat at a Piano and played I'll be there and sang it maybe in the future who knows but the man has talent and is a genuis shyt i couldn't come up with the lyrics to smooth criminal and that eerie melody lol thats genuis | |
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WildStyle said: I don't know if this has been posted yet. Yesterday Prince was on the Doug Banks Morning Show and was asked to play "word association". He was asked in one word, what does he think of Michael Jackson. He replied, "Genius". Then he was asked in one word what does he think of Janet and he replied "genius' sister."
pfft! what does prince know?!?!
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why does your icon make jackson look green like the Hulk? I've still never seen him perform live in person... but boy, I do love that one song..."never can say goodbye" and "butterflies" too!
WildStyle said: I don't know if this has been posted yet. Yesterday Prince was on the Doug Banks Morning Show and was asked to play "word association". He was asked in one word, what does he think of Michael Jackson. He replied, "Genius". Then he was asked in one word what does he think of Janet and he replied "genius' sister." My art book: http://www.lulu.com/spotl...ecomicskid
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grayking:
in your opinion, do you believe there are any other options out there that Prince can consider to get his masters back? since you said that the time to negotiate has passed? In other words, is there any chance at ALL for Prince to get his masters back? GrayKing said: Luv4oneanotha said: Your absolutely right it happened to the beatles Prince was 17 he didn't know what he was signing but u'd think they'd have the decency to draw up a sensible Contract! but the industry is not about being decent its about making Money a sensible contract is exactly what he got when he was 17. he even thanks WB at his RRHOF induction for going out on a limb and letting some unproven talent write, record, and produce all of his own stuff. and a sensible contract is what he got in 1992 when he signed up again. it's not Warner Bros. fault that Prince was an idiot and fired his agents, managers, and legal team, before going in to negotiate. even on top of all of that stupidity, he got a pretty fucking sweet deal. reportely the biggest in history at the time... hell, they even made him a VP at the label and threw even more money down that trap he called Paisley Park Records. it wasn't until about late 93 and early 94 that he really started bitching. he'd cashed the checks, and blew all of it on ridiculous bullshit like Glam Slam clubs, NPG stores, and for dozens of videos for songs that weren't even going to see the light of day, all the while the law of diminishing returns on his music was taking effect. D&P had been something of a promise on his part to the label, that he could still come up with the goods, and that people were still going to buy it. but immediately after signing the contract, the albums is a relative flop. then all of a sudden, he's whining and moaning about how poorly he's being treated. instead of biding his time by living up to the contract HE negotiated and HE signed, until the next one was due up, he decided he wanted out. now, if he'd actually cared about ownership of his masters in 1992, he would have settled for a smaller upfront paycheck, and negotiated that as part of the deal. but he didn't. because he didn't care. he didn't even start talking about ownership of his masters until 1996, AFTER he'd gotten out of the contract and was a free agent, and suddenly realized that he didn't own that stuff. there is no one to blame for the mess, but Prince. and the fact that he doesn't seem interested in actually trying to buy them back or negotiate co-ownership of them after all these years indicates that he hasn't matured on the subject and that he still thinks they should just give them back because he says so. sorry prince. they paid for it. they own it. should have thought of that before you fired all of the people that handled your business for you, and before you cashed that huge check.The Org is the short yellow bus of the Prince Internet fan community. | |
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1p1p1i3 said: Emancipation88 said: Prince knows talent and is arrogant of his talents, I know MJ in the shit hole at the moment, but he does have talent.Did have, 15 years ago. It seems his only talent at the moment is being talked about. I'm glad when they said "Janet" he didn't say "Titty" !! Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh! | |
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He was asked in one word, what does he think of Michael Jackson. He replied, "Genius".
Game recognises Game. End of story To All the Haters on the Internet
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