imagine what prince could have done over the last eight years or so if he'd terminated his relationship with WB, then signed with another entity after having had his attorneys proof-read the contract and established contract terms the way he wanted like he's done with sony this time around.

after all of his talk about how evil major record labels are, prince's about-face on this subject and his willingness to work 'with' the system at this point in time is a huge contributing factor to his current commerical success, imo. he's getting airplay and major exposure thanks in large part to sony's backing.

obviously he succeeds thanks to his own talent as well, but he's always had that to work with.

i think his current success is kinda ironic because although musicology is good, imo his output for the years he was independent was just as good if not better but went unrecognized because of his refusal to work with any of the evil record labels he used to bash
[This message was edited Thu Apr 22 12:56:21 2004 by XxAxX]

don't get me wrong, i'm in awe of his comeback, and glad to see the world recognize him again for who and what he is.

but i'd really like to know why he changed his mind on this?

I think he should've stuck with his shiny blue Rave suit. He never really gave that a fighting chance.

2the9s said:

surely you mean 'muumuu'?

but seriously, did he just wake up one morning and say "i was wrong all those years and now i've changed my mind?"

or was it "the system's fucked but i can't help that so here goes anyway?"

i think his 'current success' as you say, is based on his road that he has traveled up till now, there is no way to say what could have made him different, or how things could have been different in his life, we are all a product of what has happened to us in life...i personally dont think he shoulda changed a thing, the road has brought him to where he is now, and that place seems to be workin pretty good for him

nakedpianoplayer said:

undoubtedly. but why do you think he decided to sign with a major label again? i'm really happy for him but signing on with sony seems to be against what he's been saying for eight years or so and i'm wondering. any idea?

i think if he would have completed his agreement with warner bros. like an adult, rather than throw the fits he did, he would have been able to hold onto commercial success. diamonds and pearls and were both successful commercial records. when his behaviour took that turn, hissales dropped drastically. he blamed the industry, they blamed him. the practice of releasing any old record just to fulfill his contractual obligations seriously hurt his career. it also lessened his credibility as a recording artist. luckily for prince, his live shows have never been boring and that is what has kept a sliver of commercial career alive. considering that some of these songs really sound like they were written back in the mid nineties, i don't doubt his commercial success could have continued.

that said, i'm glad he did what he did. excluding the public crybaby antics (he did, after all, sign those awful 'enslaving' contracts), i am very proud of him. he broke the mold and really took a lot of chances. not many, if any, superstars would have stuck to their guns when it involved so much money. he withstood rumours of financial troubles. he stood tall during all the name calling. most importantly, he never apologized or backtracked with his career. many times...many, many times...i have disagreed with his antics and statements. i'm still glad he always did what he wanted, though.

i don't know what kind of 'success' he will actually have with this record. he could debut at number 2 or 3 and then just totally drop off the charts. who knows? his sell out tour suggests otherwise but we really don't know. the one thing that does keep popping into my mind, and it would be more relevant if he does get a number one hit with this record, is one of the lines from "now". the ride up front is better when you've been in the back. i think that pertains to prince as well as his fans right now.

SassierBritches said:

interesting comments. i'm proud of him too, and i think by being a rebel he's changed the music industry forever.

imo it would be intriguing to know the terms of the contract that lured him back into signing with a major label. wonder how the royalties work? how it differs from a standard CON?

XxAxX said:

my guess would be the royalty rate is low. considering he gave a bunch away...which has nothing to do with sony...they will want to reap some financial benefit. he will most definitely retain ownership but for sony to be interested, and put all this $$$$ into promotions/payoffs, they will certainly be getting a big chunk of the pie. i would think prince is using sony to get his name back out there.

Didn't he have obligations to that contract until 2000? Or was that just publishing?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i think it was more than publishing. the vault was the final release for warner bros. and that was 1999. or does the very best of count as a release also? hmmm....

i just feel all confused because all these years he's been leading us on the 'record labels are evil crusade' but now. .. well clearly he's changed his mind. what happened?

XxAxX said:

My theory: Prince bores easily. REALLY easily. I think he got bored with the independent thing and was ready to challenge himself commercially again. He's said in interviews that his success this year wasn't orchestrated in any way, but I think that's bologna.

I think he realizes that he has special pull in the industry, and the best way to get his opinions out there is to find a way to work within the system, even if it's just one project at a time.

I don't think he would have enjoyed any more success over the past few years if he had been with a label. Prince's output has always rode the rollercoaster of "this is gonna be successful" to "this is the record I wanted to make for me." He had plenty of ups during his years with WB, too...that's just part of life.

well, in fairness to prince, he has said on multiple occasions that he doesn't hate the industry or think they are wrong. he just thinks there are OTHER ways to do business...alternatives to the mainstream way. as long as he's keeping ownership and sticking to all those other principles...which it seems he is...i say cool. now, if he were to sign some kind of deal where the label owns him for any length of time, he'd lose a hella lot of points with me.

Maybe he decided he didn't want his legacy permanently tarnished by the career slump that came after his battles with WB. One thing is certain: Prince finally faced that if he wanted another commercial success, he'd have to make several concessions. These included making nice with a real record company, playing the public appearance game again, and releasing an album with broader appeal.

SassierBritches said:

That's right. I don't think Prince was necessarily saying that Industry folk are evil. See, the problem with P is that he never really articulates his point of view very well, and that leads to misintrepretation and things. It seems to be that the bottom line for P is "OWNERSHIP" of the mass recordings. Artists should be free to work in the industry but the industry needs to compromise by allowing the artists to own the publishing rights to their own music. I think he's only using Columbia for distribution and promotion, and there's nothing wrong with that. He just doesn't make himself clear when he explains shit sometimes.

in response to you're initial question = NO WAY. sony is working hard to make this a hit. end of.

I agree with alot of ya on this topic .... as far as Prince getting "bored" etc and that on multiple occasions , when speaking to the camera ...he has not "ripped " the record industry ... i remember in 98 or so when he was on the Today show, him saying somethin like "with the gracious help of Warner bros. ... i was able to build Paisley Park .... " etc .....

I believe its a combination of "staying under the radar" and "being seen as an innovator " as to why he was pushing the internet thing ... but ... in the back of his mind all along ... he was gonna make a "comeback" ... and need the corporate record companies ---- and he DID try ----- in 99 with RAVE ... a similar "comeback" ... altho the media didnt pick up on it .... like they did this time around .... partly probably because of the Clive Davis thingy ... also because of RAVE bein so blatantly a rippoff of the SANTANA "catapult" ...

NME said:

sorry? not being rude, just have no idea what you just said. are you saying there's NO WAY he could succeed without sony? or NO WAY sony is working hard to make musicology a success?

if he'd put out the garbage he did from 1996-2003 through a regular record contract, he still would need a comeback.


the only reason EMI, BMG, and Arista put out the stffy by him that they did is because he was basically paying them to do it, not the other way around.


no record label would have put up with that many substandard releases in a row.



then again, a label would have probably rejected half the stuff he submitted and told him to go back to the drawing board to fill up the other half of a disc, like WB would do. so maybe the music wouldn't have been so crap for the past 8 years after all.

XxAxX said:

Money! Not having to spend his own to promote himself they way he wants to be promoted!

BlueEyedAngel said:

could be..who knows ? i think if i was him i would be looking at this as an opportunity to sit back, get paid, and do what i love to do....make more music

well i'm glad he's getting the acclaim he deserves. i was sorry when the deal with arista/clive davis fell through because i think his output during the 'dark' years of releasing music to mostly his hardcore loyal fanbase is worthy of attention too - it'll be interesting to see if he's willing to/or can work out something with sony to release that catalog to the general public because imo the club releases are groovy too.

for me it's an odd feeling though, to have defended his choice to remain independent all these years (i've been in some heated discussions with fellow music-lovers over the wisdom of his decision in that regard) and have them turn around and say 'see? told you so. he HAS to be with a major label to make it work'. but it's all good, as they say.

do you think he still hates CONtracts now? i don't.

On one hand, I think he still would've had lots of shitty shit output and therefore no sales over the past period of musical wilderness...

On the other hand, record companies can sell damn near anything....examples too many to quote here...they could have MADE people like Prince...not PR selling numbers, but at least continual platinum sellers....

BlueEyedAngel said:

wait! i know what changed his mind! he signed onto the ORG one day, read what we were saying, nodded and murmured to himself "self, those peeps KNOW what's best for me. .."

hehehehHAHAHAHAAA pppfffff. ok. nevermind. just a fantasy

KingSausage said:

well, i don't think it was shitty shit output. i think it did him a lot of good to flex his muscles without being bound by commercial constraints. imo the 1996-2003 period was pretty vital. and no, i don't hate NPS. there, now you know ;P



totally agree. i don't even listen to most of the top 40 songs because i'm bored by the fourth measure . .

anyone else out there taking some heat from their friends for prince signing with a record label after fighting against the commercial music 'industry' for so long then (apparently) capitulating, signing up and receiving public accolades in a big way?

i'm telling them all 'hey, he had the groove all along, you just weren't listening'

If Prince hadn't gone through his "underground" period of 1994-2004 he'd just be another punk right now. Meaning he went through all that shit so he could do things his way. You gotta respect the fact that risked commercial and mainstream success for his art. It all came out in the wash eventually didn't it?

XxAxX said:

right. but they weren't because he didn't



i've always wished he'd sign with a label. wanting to get rid of the middleman is all well and good in theory, but in practice, there's no filter. no one with common sense or business sense saying "this isn't going to work." had a "middleman" been in place, Emancipation would have been the 2 discs it should have been. Crystal Ball wouldn't have been announced/ready to order until it was ready to be shipped, New Power Soul would have been sent back to the shop for retooling, Rave.... would have been.... well, still a piece of crap. but maybe by the time it had cleared all the red tape of getting a proper release at whatever label he would've been signed to, he would've come up with the much better remixes from Rave IN2 to have replaced the originals at the last minute.

you never know. things definitely would have been much different in his life and career. it's my opinion that it would have been for the better.