(Take this thread in whatever direction you wish, but please try to give examples of any far-out statements.)


This topic came to mind as I was reading the excellent thread about The Gold Experience ( http://www.prince.org/msg/7/89135 ).

One fan said that they thought this album had aged really well and was the 90s equivalent of Purple Rain. Many agreed - and rightly so in my opinion. (Aside -- I actually posted a similar belief back in 2001 and was shot down as an idiot. Perhaps now I'll be thought of as an idiot savant!)

I can't explain why this album wasn't received as a classic back in 1995; but listening to it now nearly 10 years on, it sounds fresh, well-written, brilliantly produced (not overproduced) and is jammed with great songs. Think of how happy you were to hear him play Shhh! at Hong Kong in January this year.

The only downside of the album (and the fairly recent TRC) is the presence of segues. We know that the WB-slave fiasco had all but ruined his commercial sales at that time, but are these really the reason why it was dismissed so quickly by fans?

So, this leads us to my original question: what makes a great album? And conversely, what ruins a great album beyond repair?




PorterUk
(line-stepper - but not habitually like Rick James, bitch!)

I think the fact that Prince was commercially ruined at the time by the war with WB and had released material so far below his potential just made a lot of ppl jaded towards his creative output when TGE came out.

Still, TGE is a perfect example of what makes a Prince album truly great.

It's laced with attitude and sensuality, has consistently great music throughout, and its slick production and segues (though I don't like them all that much) perfectly fits its theme of taking you on a diverse musical journey, like you're hearing the musical equivalent of gold.

So that's basically what makes a Prince album great to me.

Whether it's a pop album or an experimental theme piece, as long it has a collection of songs that sound genuinely inspired, lively, diverse, and that I connect with, and has a consistently coherent theme effectively expressed throughout, it's a great album to me.

Musicology, for example, though obviously an intentional pop album, is also a great album to me for those reasons listed above.

It appropriately opens with the title track, a song talking about the joys that classic music used to give you, then fittingly and effectively takes you through all the styles Prince has mastered, like dance, shamlessly fun, humourous funk, sombre rock, love ballads, politically aware pop, soul, etc. Then it all appropriately ends with Reflection, a song about sentimental remembrance.

Compare those two albums with slightly more uneven works like Rave and TRC, albums that definitely had their share of gems that brought them close to greatness, but just had an overall theme that felt expressed in an unbalanced or inconsistent way.
[This message was edited Wed Apr 14 9:40:15 2004 by PurpleKnight]

To make things very, VERY simple....it´s , first of all, the music, which should get your attention or touch your soul without people forcing you ( i.e. the opposite of format radio ), and, also very important, the lyrics.
For instance, I liked TRC very much, but I couldn´t really relate to the lyrics in Everlasting Now, 1+1+1=3 and parts of Last December because the universal approach was / is missing.
I still love TRC and , even though I´m not African-American, really think that Family Name is a great tune lyricwise and musically, but beautifully sung songs like Digital Garden ( also musically a true gem) are, IMHO, a wasted opportunity...also the title track...great music, but "fly upon the wings of the New Translation" simply isn´t something I can relate to or sing along with.

Not to sound retro or nostalgic, but I think Purple Rain, Parade, ATWIAD and SOTT all had lyrical elements people could relate to, great songwriting accompanied by great music.
I also dig Lovesexy yet I simply can´t relate to Jesus being God and so on...

Of course, that´s what Prince is about and he´s always been like that ( remember the "dialogue with God" during the Purple Rain show....)...but I´m simply trying to answer your question of what makes a great , really GREAT album, and I think making an album that people in the USA, the UK, Japan, the Middle East, South Europe, North Europe/Scandinavia, Central Europe etc. can relate to comes very close to being a great album, and Prince had this talent and I think still has it , he just diesn´t use it anymore..
I love Musicology, but the lyrics are hardly something the average listener in say, Kairo or Tokyo or Hamburg or Dallas can relate to ( thinking about the Title track and If I Was The Man In Ur Life or the The Marrying Kind)
Not that the lyrics are bad but maybe they´re too personal in the sense that people simply can´t relate to them as they could to the lyrics in the eighties, which were also highly personal yet more accessible cause everybody´s been through most of those situations or feelings.

For me, Prince albums are ruined when other people come in and co-produce and additionally mix his work. And as for the dreaded 'additional programming by'...

That plastic sound that began with the album, and carried on until Rave Un2, resulted in that time period containing only a sprinkling of classic Prince. The Truth CD is easily Prince's finest moment in this era, but apart from that, The Gold Experience is possibly the best 'proper' album of all the material released in that period, but even then the odd 'Made In Taiwan' sticker is apparent.

Personally, I don't find segues too intrusive - certainly it suited TGE's general theme and the segues in TRC added to that album's enigma. I think a lot of the initial lack of excitement for TGE came from the fact that by the time of it's release, any fan worthy of the name already had all of the songs on it.

But ultimately, the best Prince albums are the ones where 95% of the album truly is Arranged, Composed, Performed and most importantly Produced by Prince, on his own, with just a little help from whichever musicians he's working with at the time. And most definitely without any additional programming by!

But, as for what makes a great album, I believe it's simply the vibe it creates for the individual listener. Some albums just strike a chord with something within the soul. An album will, for a time, become the soundtrack to your life and if you're experiencing something that is somehow mirrored by the music you're listening to (lyrically or otherwise), then you're more likely to find yourself endeared to that album and consider it a classic. However, if an album is given 'classic' status purely because of the songcraft within, (regardless of whether or not the listener enjoys the music) I don't think that it's possible to explain why it's a classic. I believe that, like all art, masterpieces are accidental. No-one can set out to create a masterpiece, it'll just happen simply because the artist was in that vibe at the time and it could probably never be re-created.

In terms of what is generally considered to be a classic album, I do feel that more often than not, we're told what we should look upon as a great album. Endless Top 100 album lists, DJs, music magazines, other musicians etc. will always tell us this album or that album is one of the finest ever created. However, I'm sure each and every person here has an all-time favourite album that others look down on, and likewise there are a number of these supposed 'classic' albums that do nothing for some of us.

For my own example, I've said it before, but I've always found Sign O The Times to be one of Prince's least exciting albums, despite the fact that it's supposed to be Prince's all-time classic and likewise, I absolutely adore Malcolm McLaren's Paris album, despite the fact that hardly anybody else has ever heard of it and just about every review I've ever read about it has absolutely slaughtered it.

Just my thoughts...

Haystack said:

100% agree with that. Very good point ...



I was right with you until that! SOTT is the benchmark in my eyes. However, I have a feeling that that is merely the album I have assigned my praise to because P's greatest work is spread over nearly all his albums. It is indeed a fine album, but is it as good as my mind hears it to be ... ? Interesting dilemma.


Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and musings on this topic.



PorterUk.

A great album reaches you, not only through your ears but through your heart & soul.

Now, what makes an album great to ME and to YOU might be totally different. I personally think TRC is a masterpiece, and would not want to do without it . . .

The great albums are the ones you could not live without. The ones where, in the hypothetical "If you had a fire, which 10 would you save", you KNOW which ones you would grab.

They're the ones you subconsciously keep returning to, the ones you play for others, and the ones that 10 years from now, you'll still be playing.

My Prince great albums: 1999, PR, SOTT, TGE, and TRC. 5 great albums, absolute masterpieces IMHO.

Some others I consider "GREAT": Abbey Road, Revolver, The Joshua Tree, Achtung Baby, Music For The Masses, Violator, Kick, The Bends and OK Computer.

Those are just examples.

Se7en said:

My 10 grabs would be:

Prince, PR, Parade, SOTT, TGE, Emancipation, The Truth, TRC, ONA Live and the next masterpiece ...





PorterUk.