Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT a cult. And whomever says they once were a J.W. and now are not were either disfellowshipped for wrongdoing or did not WANT to stay one because they wanted to do things that are not acceptable in the religion. Either way, a person gets themselves removed from the religion by willingly practicing what they understand to be wrong in the first place. Then many turn around and try to portray the situation as if the religion did them wrong in some way. That's why a person has to diligently study the Bible before baptism to make sure that their conversion isn't just on a whim or an emotional phase that they are going through. And if a person finds comfort from the truth in the scriptures about the dead, then that's a wonderful thing- not an 'membership drive ploy.' If a person is drawn to the religion for the wrong reason, that's on them- and it will eventually show because the person will prove that they do not have what it takes spiritually to remain in the faith. It's not an easy one to accept because the religion and it's members are often ridiculed. Now if Prince had converted to Catholicism, no one would have cared an ounce. (Ya know, I don't even think that there would be any snickering or outcry if he had even become a member of the Hindu religion. But to each his own, according to what is truly right for them in their hearts.)

And if the responder "joined" the religion for the wrong reason, then they should have left the religion. Jehovah and his organization only want people who truly want to know and live the truth from the Bible- not being swayed by whatever religion, moral, or anti-moral belief is popular at the moment. And if the person's family members cannot be in contact with them anymore because he/she chose to leave the religion and the family chooses to remain in the religion- that shouldn't be news to them IF they ever really learned anything when they were studying the Bible. (You have to know that it's not easy for the family members to have to 'shun' you either. What- do you think they're doing it just for fun? Duh.) They knew that if they became a J.W. and chose to practice wrongdoing and leave the religion, they would get disfellowshipped. Please. People who aren't J.W.'s even know that- well, a lot of non J.W.'s know it. So stop trying to portray yourself as a victim of a "cult." You, and God, know what you did or did not do to get yourself in that situation. Stop blaming the religion and take responsibility for your own actions.

I hope Prince sues the hell out of this magazine.

theblueangel said:

-----
Well according to you anyone that has a belief in anything or join organization was brainwashed or bought into a marketing scheme. If you really believe than you have been sold a bill of goods to with your non-beliefs.

In addtion, no one said you were going to hell. All of mankind has sinned. It does not matter if we are striaight, gay or asexual. No one is above sin and I am sorry if Christianity has been presented to you in a hateful way. It only takes a few out the millions of believers to get the message wrong.

OdysseyMiles said:

With all due respect, some of your faith does it, too.

GeSmi1 said:

Answer: the Mormons, the Amish... and I'm sure others can be added to the list.

laurarichardson said:

Actually there are more people following Islam than Christianity.

JediMaster said:

She won't be allowed to because 1) she's also a Jehovah's Witness and Im sure she has insider info regarding that angle of Prince's life; and 2) she's a regular at the NPGMC and has probably been told of or learned of more private personal info regarding Prince and Mani and she wont be allowed to share that info either.

Some people do respect the privacy of their friends

Safireseven said:

Sensualmelody is "friends" with Prince and Mani?!

Um, ok.

.
[This message was edited Mon Apr 12 13:53:06 2004 by PrimordialOoze]

PrimordialOoze said:

Which is exactly why she shouldn't have said anything...it is SO tiring on here when people claim to know something but won't actually TELL us what that something is. No offense SensualMelody, you seem like a cool person...it's just, well, I don't understand why you would say anything if you're not going to tell us what exactly is wrong about the article.

laurarichardson said:

First of all, I would like to apologize for the brash nature of my previous posts on this issue. Obviously I have had quite a few negative experiences in my life with religion, so I have very strong feelings on the subject. I understand that other people have strong feelings on the subject too, so it would behoove me to be a tad more tactful.

I don't think that anyone who has a belief or joins an organization has been brainwashed. Where in the world did you get that out of what I said? Do you honestly not think that going to Heaven is an incentive to accept Jesus Christ into your life? Have you not ever known anyone who was "technically" religious in terms of what they SAID, but in practice were despicable people? They didn't care about showing kindness...they just want to get into Heaven.

But...obviously, you don't sound like that kind of person, which is cool.

And all of the JWs on here --- first of all, I think it would be quite interesting to find out how many of you were JW before Prince was. I also would LOVE to hear how a religion that would rather let someone die unnecesarily than let them have a blood transfusion is somehow "enlightening."

As for the person who said that people who were once JWs were either forced out due to "wrongdoing" or left of their own will....well, no motherfucking shit. That's a pretty fucking dense statement right there. Can you please give examples of some of the offenses that might cause one to be kicked out?

I know one for sure: falling in love with someone of the same gender and not being afraid to tell the world.

theblueangel said:

I agree completely.

I also agree that SensualMelody (from what I can tell from her posts) seems like a nice person but these "I know the facts! I know the truth!" etc, type comments from people who then can't/won't elaborate on the reasons WHY they "know" the "facts" or "truth" just seem attention-seeking to me and is why I get sick of them.

If a person truly IS a 'friend' of Prince's or close to situations in Prince's life that allows them insider info to the facts, that's great for them but well then I can't understand why they post *anything at all* - even vague "That's so wrong!" comments - on a FANSITE. That seems a little weird to me.

If I were in that position I'd keep my mouth shut completely and truly "respect the privacy of my friends".

As I said, these unsubstantiated, vague remarks only come across as attention seeking or an attempt to show how much the person knows (cause they're privvy to INSIDER INFO!! ooooo) compared to us "average fans".

Either put your money where your mouth is or keep your insider info to yourself....where it should stay in the first place, imo.

theblueangel said:

I totally understand where you're coming from. Millions of people today are disenchanted with religion because of the hypocrisy that some people exhibit. Still, it's pretty unfair to lump people into one group and say that they worship God as an incentive to "get to heaven". People worship for many reasons. There are preachers out there who know that if they tell people what they wanna hear, they'll have a big house and nice car from the $$ the congregation contributes. Both sides get what they want, but there's no real benefit. I know that I worship God out of love for him and myself, but also for love of my neighbor. I find the spiritual things that I learn to be life saving, therefore, I'm compelled to share that truth with them by going door to door. If I were to shove it down their throat, I'd surely get arrested . If people aren't interested, that's fine, but many people appreciate our visits. For your info, going to heaven is not a hope that Witnesses pursue. And second, I speak for myself when I say that I was born and raised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I honestly stumbled upon this site once I got access to the internet. As for your other questions, you should probably take those to the P&R forum

I also have never heard that Prince's mom was a JW. As a matter of fact, weren't some orgers very critical of Prince because he refused to go to her funeral becuase it was in a CHURCH and JW's don't go into churches????? Don't ya'll remember that????? Somone posted her obit on the org with the name and place of the CHURCH. It was not the kingdom hall. Also, I doubt that an elder in the church would be so crass as to make a comment about a famous person's baptism to the media. If part of the story ain't true, why believe that rest of it?

illimack said:

You are so right, lady Illimack . I took this article with a grain of salt simply because it has all the typical tabloid exaggerations. We'd all be better off to not put too much stock in such things.

OdysseyMiles said:

Hey, THANK YOU for participating in the dialog and not just writing me off as a religion-hating asshole. Seriously - if everyone was more like you, then I would probably think quite differently about organized religion.

You're right that it's unfair to lump everyone in one group and say they worship God as incentive to get to Heaven. That is surely NOT something that everyone does; however, I do feel that many people (if they were honest, which I don't think they would/could be) would cite this as a huge incentive. I mean, it's a reward, right?

Okay, so JWs don't believe in going to Heaven...I get that....but don't they believe in an eternal afterlife on earth? I know that you would consider that to be vastly different than Heaven, but if you ask me it's all the same bag.

I should reiterate that my feelings on religion are based on observations and experiences that I have had over the last 20 years or so. I was raised Catholic, and the hypocrisy that was continually exhibited in church made me feel sick...and almost led me to take my life as a teenager. If you're attracted to other guys but you know that by acting on these instincts you're going against the will of God (supposedly) - well, it sure doesn't make you feel loved, I'll tell you that!! From what I understand, the JW religion as a whole is similarly homophobic...as are most (but not all) religions. I know that probably isn't a big issue for a lot of people, and I'm sure that many religious people are not themselves homophobic...but by following a religion that is, they're condoning that attitude, IMO.

Just as it makes me sad to see children raised in a racist environment, it fills me with sorrow to know that right now there are millions of young adults who feel like they are an abomination thanks to the teachings of their church.

Thanks again, Odyssey. And hey, if you ever show up at my door, I promise to be respectful.

JediMaster said:

With all due respect JM...why should I disclose personal information?
Some of it is off-base, that's all.
People always choose to believe what suits them anyway.

Bottom line.
Prince is a baptized witness.
So is his wife.

Melody

theblueangel said:

Very nice, guys.
U know I believe many people just follow the religion of their parents...and when I say "follow",
I mean that very loosely. For a religion to really mean something to a person, I believe it
would have to be by his own choosing. Of course one may choose the religion of his parents,
but a conscious choice would have to be involved for a real commitment.
Therefore, many who belong to different denominations are nominal. I can say this because
I spend so much time talking to them.
Blue, U said...we serve for the reward, but I say serving Jehovah is a reward in itself.
Many of my friends have made the statement...
"Even if there were no paradise, I would still serve Jehovah."
We have come to love him. We believe he is good and loving and responsible for the life we already have enjoyed.

Hope U don't mind if I reference one scripture that says how I feel.

"You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power,
because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created." Revelation 4:11


As to homophobia...if I understand the word, it means a hatred of homosexuals.
As a religious group, JWs love the whole world of mankind. We would never be found among
those who would heckle, mob, or discriminate against another human being. I loathe
the behaviour that would cause one person to mistreat another person on any grounds.

These discussions have actually helped many of us to understand one another.
Anyway, thanks again for such kind words from you both.
melody

PrimordialOoze said:

If I were friends with Prince and Mani, or whether I am just knowledgeable of things because
I live in the same world, visit the same kingdom hall, know the same people...regardless,
I would not have stuff printed here so tabloids could quote me.
U understand?

theblueangel said:

And the reason I said something is so you would know that the whole truth is not there...
That's all.
I mean that's all, too.
Some may feel they have the right to know everything, but I have not been hired as a press
agent.
Then people want sustantiation like dates, places, references...
I was neither trying to tease nor showboat....just letting U know not to buy the whole package.

SensualMelody said:

Then why do you comment at all about topics regarding their personal lives and/or personal knowledge you have of such?

Why don't you just NOT dignify the "untruths" with a response? Maybe it would be a better idea to keep your information to yourself if you can't or won't substantiate your claims.

I bet your "friends" would appreciate such restraint demonstrated by not indulging in such gossipy threads as this.

Do U understand?

SensualMelody said:

And without substantiating your "knowledge" or somehow proving your claims, your post on a fansite it no better and no more persuasive or credible than the very article you refute.

Why should people believe you and not this article? Merely because you say you "know" certain information? How does anyone know you're more legit or what you say is more true or valid than what is contained in this article?

People ask for substantiation when other people make baseless, unproven claims on a message board. Speaking for myself, I don't really care to know all the gory details of Prince's personal life, especially when it's clear he doesn't want them made known.

HOWEVER if someone claims they're so in the know about something, and makes a post telling everybody NOT to believe what is written elsewhere, then I want to at least know HOW the person telling me not to believe other information or came by THEIR information.

If they can't offer anything to prove they actually know what they're talking about or show me that their info is more valid than other info, why should I bother to believe them over another source?[/quote]
[This message was edited Mon Apr 12 17:14:07 2004 by PrimordialOoze]

BOOOOO PRINCE!!!!!

.
[This message was edited Mon Apr 12 17:13:32 2004 by PrimordialOoze]

SensualMelody said:

I understand how the press can take things out of context, but it also stands to reason that a JW elder would not lie. The Truth...is what JW's are all about...not lies and deception, right?

It's a very confusing article, but what difference does it really make in any of our lives. Prince is living his life regardless of our feelings or opinions. Period.

"More than all else that is to be guarded, safeguard your heart, for out of it are the sources of life." - Proverbs 4:23


"Even a dog can distinguish between being stumbled over and being kicked." -- Perry Mason
[This message was edited Mon Apr 12 17:44:12 2004 by CandyEyce]

PrimordialOoze said:

whatever


.
[This message was edited Mon Apr 12 19:27:05 2004 by SensualMelody]

PrimordialOoze said:

Because I do what I want to? I posted what i wanted to post.
I said what I wanted to say.
I'm satisfied.
[This message was edited Mon Apr 12 19:32:11 2004 by SensualMelody]

CandyEyce said:

Hey Candy...U R absolutely right...Brother Scofield did not lie.
He works at Paisley.....(anybody who doubts that can run on up to the park and see)
maybe he had the go ahead to give some information,
but the whole article is not about what he said.
What he said is fact.

PrimordialOoze said:

If it makes U feel better just disregard anything I said.
Sorry if I caused you irritation.