Last night's gig proved it. If school is in and Prince is teaching some musicology, he definitely needed to get the best possible band to do it right. Prince has never had anyone better than Renato on keys, John on drums, and Rhonda on bass (unless you count Larry Graham). John is like a DH is baseball - you cant count on him to bring the goods and crush everybody every time he takes a solo.

I love Candy even though my all time fav Prince sax player is Eric Leeds - his sound is the Mpls?Prince sax sound. BUt then Candy can sing and she is a peice of ass and Eric cant claim either of those attributes! I can do without that Mike Phillips guy - I have never had much respect for the long notes with circular breathing. It is just noise and trickery to sensationalized the less sophisticated element of the audience that doesnt know any better. So often, technical prowess is mistaken for true artistry. Miles Davis was never perfect technically - it was his phrasing, timing, and delivery that made him great.

Mike Scott is good - only Dez Dickerson ranks with him as the best Prince guitarist. His solo work is a tad bit on the generic side but then I suppose most anyone would sound like that if they had to play next to Prince every night.

Um, no. His best band has always been the SOTT/Lovesexy band. Bar none. They were so fuckin' tight...WAAYYY better than this band. They have potential to grow and be better, and they're not bad at all right now by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't see them becoming anything that the Lovesexy band was!!

alexnvrmnd said:

Blackwell crushes Sheila E. That right there makes the difference. And Levi wasnt the bass player that Rhonda is. Lovesexy is close but not quite. Miko is no Mike Scott. No need to curse about it
[This message was edited Tue Mar 30 13:27:40 2004 by newwave]

Yeah as musician myself I must say that this is the most enviable band Ive ever seen him with. Blackwell is quite easily the best drummer alive at the moment let alone in any of Prince's bands

And might i say that this is one of the most musically mature reviews of Prince's band members Ive ever seen on here.
[This message was edited Tue Mar 30 13:33:02 2004 by cloud9mission]

newwave said:

I wouldn't say that. Although he is an excellent drummer, but their styles are completely different, IMO.

newwave said:

I curse cuz that's the why I talk at times. And in NO way does John "crush" Sheila on the drums! I'm sure even he would tell you that! Ske kills them drums AND sings backup at the same time (among other talents). Let's see ol' Johnny boy do that (again, taking away nothing from him, as he's probably my second fav Prince drummer). LOL! Also, look at the horn sections...Atlanta and Eric KILLS any combo Prince has had since Lovesexy, and this definitely includes Candy, Greg, Maceo (yes, Maceo), Mike Phillips, Najee, Hornheads (less is more, ya know), etc.... The main thing that keeps the Lovesexy band on top was the ability to hold onto that groove (Revolution was damn good at this too; prolly the best).

I'm sorry...as of right now, there is just NO comparison. The SOTT/Lovesexy band were just superbad! Too cool for this yet-another-reincarnation of the NPG. But, I'll give them time and see how they grow/progress.

I like some of the band members, namely Rhonda, John B. and Candy, but I don't like Renato. Renato bugs me, always has.

I haven't really given Chance a chance yet, so we'll see.

Se7en said:

That's kinda weird, I feel the same about Rhonda, Candy (both are very hot chicks as well and much easier on the eyes than Larry) and Mister John Blackwell (damn he's a fuckin' awesome drummer, he plays with authority) like them a lot .... however I just don't trust that dude Renato ... dunno why tho.

alexnvrmnd said:

Its quite a well suited band though. The Lovesexy/SOTT band was fantastic in their own right but they were an odd bunch. Whereas the band really works great as a unit at the moment. Strengths & Weaknesses are well balanced & everybody has their place. Good stuff!

SunDance said:

Blackwell is an awesome mixture of all the greatest drummers. A little Billy Cobham, a little John moffett, some art blakey & loads of others. He can spin his sticks & play drums at the same time too lol (fellow drummer cloud9 spits in envey lol)

This band is talented, I'll give you that... but I wouldn't consider them better than the Lovesexy Band or the Revolution (Wendy & Lisa era).

There is a huge lack of chemistry among these players... they are tight as hell, but they are simply a backing band. He wants the best, he assembled some great musicians, but other than playing live... what are their contributions to his music?

Purple Rain has never sounded right when Prince plays it live, because no one can hit the correct chords Wendy wrote and used. Mike Scott, best guitarist since Dez???? Say no to crack. Mike Scott may have some talent, but he doesn't even begin to capture the magic that Wendy and Prince had onstage. Wendy is the best female guitarist on the planet.

Same with the horn section. They're good and Candy is hot, but they don't pack the punch that Atlanta Bliss and Eric Leeds did. The chemistry and harmonies between Eric's Sax and Atlanta's trumpet??? Too tight for words to describe.

John Blackwell is a badass drummer, but can't be compared to Sheila. He's cool to watch with his flashy stick twirling, but if you close your eyes, it just sounds like "ddddd" "ddddd" "ddddd" with some symbals thrown in. But I do have alot of respect for him, being able to play 777-9311 without a drum machine.

Renato the best keyboardist Prince has??? I don't think so. I got bored during last nights performance when he took too long with his new age solos. 2 words: Dr. Fink. No one can replace him... they can try, but no keyboardist can give Prince's music what Dr. Fink did.

He can keep John, Rhonda, and even Candy since she's been playing with him since '88... but some of the others leave alot to be desired. They have big shoes to fill in his music from some of his plast players, but they are good... just not the best IMO.

LovesexyIsThe1 said:

Right on!



Tru Dat!

I don't care for the twirling at all. I don't feel anything when he plays. I prefer Michael B and Sheila E.

Last night when Prince said "Play something sexy, Renato" he didn't deliver. It was jazzy, but not sexy at all. IMHO.

Here we go again...

Some of these comments are way off. Good thing I'm here to set you all straight.

The current band is great -- as a back-up band -- but they don't appear to hold the same place in his musical life as collaborators that the Revolution did. And actually, when we talk of collaboration, we're really speaking about Wendy and Lisa. That's the main difference between now and then. But they sound fierce together live, without question. Specifics: Dez was great for that era (kamikaze bandana and all) but he is nowhere near the rhythm guitarist that Mike Scott is, period. Just his approach to the "Kiss" riff alone makes that clear -- so intricate and subtle, what he's doing. Miko was a very solid player, Wendy a great player (and underrated on the funk stuff), and Kat Dyson (who I study with) is incredibly talented. But even Kat will tell you that Mike is the baddest motherfucker at the rhythm stuff.

Renato's fine, but he's not a brilliant soloist (Prince has never really had a keyboard demon soloist, ever). He can't play jazz and should immediately stop subjecting audiences to his attempts. Maybe we need Morris/Tommy back.

Horns. They were great last night, true. And I didn't know that Candy was a competent singer, in addition to being a piece of ass (though she needs to hit the catering table a little less often). But Mike Phillips' circular-breathing wankery should be quickly removed from the proceedings, 'cause to real musicians that shit's a joke. What's really missing from the horn section, though, besides a really star-quality soloist like Eric Leeds (the only guy from any of P's bands, ever, that had any genuine authority as a jazz musician) is sophisticated arranging. The horn charts have never reached the complexity and inventiveness they had from SOTT/Lovesexy, when, presumably, Eric and Prince were writing them, or the NPG Horns/Hornheadz, when Mike Nelson was writing with Prince. And while we're on the subject, Brian Gallagher never gets any love from the fans, though he's easily the second-best saxophonist P's ever had, much more accomplished in this idiom than Candy.

Comparing John Blackwell and Sheila and Michael Bland is stupid. They're all different, they're all great, and they all know how to play this music. Just don't compare anybody to Bobby -- you'll lose.

Rhonda has, to her credit, developed more of a "pocket" style over the years, which is more appropriate for this gig. She clearly came from a fusion background and had to learn how to be funky. You'll notice she has stopped playing five-string basses, which is definitely a good thing.
Sonny did his thing and so did Mark Brown -- P's never really been lacking for a strong musician in this chair. But Larry Graham is his best bassist ever, without question. He wrote the whole fucking book on this style.

All said, Prince has a great band right now. They have chemistry and their own personality as an ensemble. The best? Who knows/cares? I do know I'm not mad.

man every ordiary guitar player can play chords to purple rain,wendy didn't wrote
those chords,prince did.(real life not the movie purple rain)

sheila e is good drummer,but technicly john blackwell is much better.

dr fink and renato-i think renato is better keyboard player.

dez dickerson i preffaire he gave more rock to prince sound,but mike scott is better.

you talk about chemistry,but how do you know that there was real chemistry between prince and wendy?
because of the movie ?
what if prince wanted (at that period ) to look like he was part of the band ,not only band leader?

this group have a lot of chemistry.listen to renATO'S FILL UPS WHILE PRINCE does a guitar solo,or john blackwell doing dinamics on drums while prince rips a guitar solo.
listen to it and after that tell me that revolution was better.
face it people revolution was just part of image.
wendy was pretty average guitar player.listen to her solos on live when doves cry.
it doesn't sound like a unity it sounds like disoriented licks.
guita players will know what im talking about.
you are just subjective because you love revolution period.
i was kind to sonny t. michael b ,tommy and mr. hayes npg ,they were great skilled musicians but this band is tehnicly the best ever period.

What about Maceo?

I didn't really care for Renato either until last night when I really listened and studied his performances. I think I concentrated more on his goofy image than his ability to play music before. Yeah, he should be known as the "Mad Scientist", alright.

I was pleasantly suprised by Candi. She can really sing! Almost as good as Rosie.

Drums? Blackwell is good, but Michael B owns those drum solos in Shhh!

Renato killed on that "Baby I'm a Star" solo. I haven't heard key playing that moved me like that since the keyboard solo in "Head".

TedW said:

i agree. mike phillips' tone is just awful (or at least it was in the simulcast). that breathing trick is not too impressive. i could not wait for him to be done with it. and then at the end he does the flintstones theme??(although i am sure that was prince's idea).

I agree Mike Scott locks it down.



all I say is WHERE IS RAD when you need her?



That is SO true, sorry but Mike Phillips is lame and his tone his hard to bear. Bring Eric Leeds back, pleazze!

newwave said:

Dr. Fink was a way more exciting keyboard player for Prince's music back in the 80s, IMHO.

newwave said:

Is this music, or World Wrestling Entertainment?

The Revolution didn't consist of the best musicians, true, but they had more chemistry than Prince's new band has, and Prince's new band is really just a backing band. Prince and the Revolution collaborated together. And yes, Wendy is just an average guitarist, but Dr. Fink was a damn good keyboardist. He wrote the "Head" solo himself.

Nyabinghi said:

Now that...good money...pay to see.

Would I.

I JUST have to add something to this thread. Please do read. It's not often I say something coherent on here.

For one, John Blackwell is definitely the best drummer Prnce has ever had in his band. This is not to say that others haven't been good (Sheila E. Michael Bland), but this is just a fact. Ain't no discussing it, the man is probably the best young drummer in the world and one of the most promising talents in the field ever. John Blackwell is very, very good.

Why do people make uch a big thing out of the stick twirling? Just imagine it's not there if it annoys u so much (it doesn't detract from his playing after all so who cares?), and if u like it, enjoy the showmanship. The man can play the drums the way everybody wishes they could AND stick twirl at the same time. It's a bonus. Gratuitous, but a skill in the locker all the same. Better to be able to do it than not.

Like being able to drive like Michael Schumacher and have a girl go down on u at the same time and still maintain concentration. Ur just jealous.

Neto is ok, but personally I don't like his style. Fink was better (in his time period, forget it now), but Rhonda has a very cool style.

So really, there's your core. Rhonda and Blackwell. And that, above everything, is what Prince should try to hold together. That is the modern NPG right there. That is what ONA Live is built upon (taking P as a given of course). That is what the current tour, I am sure, is built on.

Maceo is very good, as is Eric Leeds who complements Prince so perfectly, and Candy Dulfer is pretty good. As good as can be expected for a sideperson (PC here) with ultimately not that much experience playing with Prince. There are plenty that could take Candy's role, but that's not to say she isn't very good. Eric is someone who Prince should keep close to him as a musical foil, and someone like Maceo is always good to have around. It wouldn't be the end of the world if Maceo went and did his own thing for a while, but he is great. Eric should never be allowed to go far.

As far as best band ever, this one has a fair shout due to John, Rhonda and Eric Leeds. Honestly it all comes down to your musical preferences and in particular what type of Prince fan u are (ie. what era u are most fond of). Personally, I like this band more than any other due to a combination of the material, technical ability, and vibe of the band as a whole.

Renato should go though.

TedW said:[quote] But Mike Phillips' circular-breathing wankery should be quickly removed from the proceedings, 'cause to real musicians that shit's a joke.
[quote]

Hmmm. Real musicians like Courtney Pine? Good one.

alexnvrmnd said:

YES! If you need another sax player, I'd also throw Eddie M. in there, too.

It has to be said, John Blackwell is overrated. Anyone who has delved into the jazz milieu will know there are many current drummers who are better (however defined). But, Hell, this band works very well for Prince so that's OK by me. I mean, Candy ain't the best saxophonist in the world but I really dig her sound and she is a great plus for the band. Rhonda ('you're killing me with that bass') is OK but again not the greatest bass player out there. Renato is OK.

What I think I am saying is that this band really clicks with Prince, which is great, but as individual musicians they are good but not as great as some would have us believe.

BTW, Although I agree trickery and technique for the sake of it sucks, circular breathing in context is fine by me - listen to a bit of Evan Parker or John Surman....

sdbm said:

So who would you have in Prince's band?

sdbm said:

I think I disagree. How is John Blackwell overrated? Let's face it, at the very top there is only subjective analysis. John Blackwell is good enough to be considered next to anyone. When u're very, very good, as he is, there is no splitting these people. It just comes down to whose style u like. Ok, so technically u're going to put Dave Weckl above him, but who isn't below Weckl when it comes to pure technical ability? Can't we just acknowledge that John Blackwell is an obvious talent and one of the best drummers around? We may agree or disagree to some extent on just how good he is but it's clear as anything that he is excellent.

I agree about Candy Dulfer.

Rhonda plays the bass beautifully. It's impossible to nit-pick with her. Same kind of thing as Blackwell, to a lesser extent perhaps, in that she is very good and has a nice style. U couldn't find much better anywhere and she has been with Prince for a while. This is an important factor and can be felt in her playing over the last 3 years as opposed to the years before that, would u agree?

This whole 'greatest' thing is fundamentally flawed, of course.

As for the circular breathing thing, it can get a little annoying, I can understand that, but Courtney Pine does it to great effect on occasions, when he judges the mood correctly, and there is an extremely skilled saxophonist and that's not in question.

...
[This message was edited Wed Mar 31 7:49:12 2004 by fauxnewbie]

fauxnewbie said:[quote]TedW said:[quote] But Mike Phillips' circular-breathing wankery should be quickly removed from the proceedings, 'cause to real musicians that shit's a joke.


Notice I said "wankery." Courtney Pine and others (and Coltrane before him) use(d) circular breathing in a musical fashion, to play incredibly long phrases at difficult tempos. Not to hold one note while going from one end of the stage to the next pandering for applause. Big difference. The technique itself is not bullshit, no technique is. I'm criticizing the application.