OdysseyMiles said:

eeeeevil.

Lovesexyisthe1 said:

I never knew he had a picture up like that. I think it's very cool that he's proud to be going door to door. It really is a wonderful work that many householders appreciate.

Who cares if Prince is a Witness? I'm sure a lot of us don't want our religious preferences or other personal business out here for all to criticize.

Lovesexyisthe1 said:

Cool.

Anxiety said:

Capri Sun is the devil's ruse to steal your soul. Worship Sunny D only or burn in hell!!

Universaluv said:

Same as it ever was.


Sincerely,


David Byrne.

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Not that I care if he's a JW or not, but then I guess Prince should shut up about his religious preferences and affiliations.

If he throws the subject (his religion and beliefs) out there for public consumption, either via interviews or through his music, it's going to be discussed and yes, criticized by some.

Supernova said:

Namedropper!

krebsne said:

I must say that he does seem to look happy and comfortable in his skin.
If it works for him then that's the ticket. To each his own. Oh what a
beautiful world. I mean I'm inspired by the dignity that he's displaying
walking back into the spotlight and the respect he has. But he seems
far more relaxed and accepting of his role as an artist. He never wants
us to forget that his contributions come from God. God bless his soul.

MrTation said:

PrimordialOoze said:

What's so wrong about thanking your maker on one of the biggest nights of your career? Why does doing that obligate him to criticism and scrutiny about his beliefs? Would it have even registered if he had thanked the Buddha or the Goddess or somethin' like that?

Let the dude believe what he wants to believe. I think he's gotten a lot less pushy and preachy lately, and if he wants to thank Jehovah, then whoop-de-friggin'-do.

Well, I mind. I think it has influenced his music - and his lyrics in particular - to a point where I can't stand listening to it. So I don't. After the horror that was The Rainbow Children, I haven't bought any of his releases or gone to any of his shows. I cannot in good conscience support an artist with a limited view like that.

Considering that Prince used to be embracing everyone, I think his turning JW was a sad and tragic day indeed. I hope he'll see the light and leave the JWs. Certainly, other of his religious experimentations, like his New Age period, didn't last.

Thankfully, this year there have been signs of him being on his way back on track. He's been dancing at his performances. He performed with Wendy without demanding she publicly denounce her homosexuality and become a Witness herself. Good signs, indeed. And also signs of his rebellious nature. I mean, imagine Larry Graham's face when Prince publicly performed with a known lesbian.

Anxiety said:

Well I think you misunderstand the point I was trying to make earlier.

I never said I felt there was anything "wrong" with Prince thanking whoever he wants to thank, Jehovah included. I myself do not care if Prince thanks God or Satan or his old aunt Martha when he accepts awards.

I was responding to someone else's comment: "I'm sure a lot of us don't want our religious preferences or other personal business out here for all to criticize."

My opinion or argument or whatever you want to call it is that people are going to talk about his religious preferences and personal beliefs because he HIMSELF puts it out there. Some people will criticize it, some will support it, some won't care either way. But saying we shouldn't discuss his religious preferences because we ourselves wouldn't want our own discussed in a public forum seems a strange comparison, considering religion plays such a major part in his professional life and career nowadays.

I certainly wouldn't want my personal religious beliefs discussed and analyzed on a message board. That's why I'm not a rock star who writes songs about Jehovah (or any other religious figure).

And face it - a celebrity or public figure IS, and WILL, have aspects of their life scrutinized and discussed, and sometimes criticized by the public and especially their fans. Especially when they write songs about and make certain aspects OF their life (like religion, in Prince's case) such a major part of their persona. It comes with the territory. To expect people to just "not talk about" or scrutinize all that is a bit naive and unrealistic.

PrimordialOoze said:

I'm sure he's been a public figure long enough to accept that fact. But I also know that Prince's JW beliefs have little to no bearing on my day to day life. When I wash my dishes, it has nothing to do with Prince's JW beliefs. When I take a poop, it has nothing to do with Prince's JW beliefs. Save for an album's worth of songs, when I listen to Prince, it has nothing to do with his JW beliefs. So what does the religious beliefs of some dude I've never met but whose music I love mean to me?? Nothing, really. And I think he's been making an effort to wear his faith more comfortably these days - he doesn't hide it, but he also doesn't preach like he did a few years back. So if he's willing to knock it off a little on his end, is it too much to expect that his fans knock it off a little on our end and let the dude believe in what he wants?

Just askin'.

Anxiety said:

I'm glad you don't allow Prince's religious beliefs to affect your bowels or your domestic sanitation habits. I don't either.

The thing that I'm having trouble understanding is you phrased your comment in such a way that is seems as though you consider anyone making *any* comment or remark *whatsoever* about anything having to do with Prince's religion or religious beliefs/affiliation to be automatically 'against' him believing in what he wants, or 'against' his religion . I think that's an unfair and shortsighted assumption. Not everyone who comments or remarks on his JW affiliation is AGAINST it, per se.

Religion, and specifically the JW religion, plays an integral part in how Prince conducts himself and his career these days and indirectly affects how he relates to his current fanbase. So again I say, the subject of his religion is going to be discussed. There is no way to avoid that. If people consciously choose to never acknowledge that or discuss it, to me that sort of seems like an elephant in the living room situation; people can't help but notice it, and notice how it may affect him as an artist and his artistic output.

Yet no one should ever mention it? Ever?

Nobody on a message board is going to change Prince's mind or alter his life regarding his religious choices merely by discussing his JW affiliation, or rather, specifically how it manifests itself in his artistic output (if/when it does). Even the most vocal, screeching anti-JWs or the disillusioned fans who beg to have the "dirty Prince" back aren't going to accomplish anything other than displaying how intolerant or ridiculous they sound to be so wrapped up in the religious choices made by someone they don't even know, and if they do think their complaining or derogatory remarks will do anything constructive, then they're nuts.

But I don't understand how it hurts anything or anybody to even merely comment on or rationally & intelligently discuss the fact Prince is a JW nowadays, or to discuss incidents or situations wherein he makes that fact very clear.
[This message was edited Tue Mar 16 22:28:39 2004 by PrimordialOoze]

It's sad that Prince got hustled by religion. You'd think for someone who's been going on about The Truth for years, he would have picked up a history book and checked some things out.

jackflash said:

scififilmnerd said:

you might be mixed up about what JWs believe.

why would he not perform with Wendy? her personal life is her business.

and what would be forbidden about dancing? i thought the less dancing stance had more to do with growing older gracefully...

i am a JW, and see nothing wrong anywhere in his "comeback" of the last few months. more power to him! and thanks to Jah.

scififilmnerd said:

Thank you for this post! Like you I just can't stand their intolerance and I do have moral issues with listening to lyrics like the ones from the Rainbow Children or supporting an artist who is not only a member of a "religion" that brainwashes its members in a way that most European countries still don't accept it as a religion, but also tries to convert people to become JWs themselves as well. Of course everyone is free to choose their religion, but I feel so sorry for all children that have to grow up in a cult like that (for me it is one). I have not completely stopped (yet) to buy any products by Prince (like CDs or tickets), but at the rare occasions I still do, I feel guilty as I know that I financially support his "religion". When I visit the NPGMC forum (no, I am no longer a member, but I sometimes read the forums nevertheless ) I just can't believe what I read there, it really hurts. About signs that Prince's point of view may change for the better: He thanked Jehovah and Larry Graham at the ceremony for the RRHOFI, so that's not the best sign I guess

scififilmnerd said:

it kinda makes me weep to say it. . because i miss the prince that was. . but i feel the same way. TRC was like a slap in the face to me. and, knowing that wendy confirmed that prince actually made her sexual preference and religion a sitcking point that prevented him from playing with the band until she renounced both. . . it's truly sad to me to see how bigoted his once open mind has become.

scififilmnerd said:

-----
You have no proof that Prince said anything about Wendy and you probaly don't realize that
religion may have changed Prince's attitude. Thus we are seeing the results with his new attitude.

You have bigoted ideas about Christiany and JW's that you need to get in check.

katt said:

I am guessing Larry is still his Spiritual mentor. What I really want to find out is.. who is his Professional mentor in 2004. He hasn't made this many smart moves in one year since before he ditched his management team (Cavallo, Ruffalo & Fargnoli) near the end of the '80's.

laurarichardson said:

Thank you Laura!! Nobody has any proof that Prince said those things.
What a retarded rumor that is. Many people have bigoted views about JWS, and that's what's sad. Not everything you read in the NPGMC forums is indicative of what JWs believe.

Uh...I hate to get into a sticky debate like this,but didn't Wendy herself confirm that Prince asked her to hold a press conference and denounce her homosexual lifestyle? I thought it was just a silly rumor too,but just the other day,someone posted where she herself said that.

Lemme ask ya'll a serious question, what religion are each of ya'll hmmm?... isnt there a passage in the bible that says Judge not less ye be judged?.. and let he who is without sin cast the 1st stone?"

funny... ya'll get on someone for thier religious beliefs, but in turn wont take a look at yaselves in the mirror..another passage "take the log out ya eye before u take the splinter out of someone elses.

just burns my ass that folks wanna delve into someones beliefs and path and call them crazy or what have u. some of ya'll need 2 getcha selves in check before tryin 2 check others.

You know, as one of MANY Jehovah's witnesses I sit here and read the comments by some people who make silly smug statements about us as if what they are saying is "truth". It shocks me because people actually think we are brainwashed? So let me get this straight, if you don't believe the way the vast majority of the world believes we have to be brainwashed? If we choose to live our lives morally by the Bible we have a problem? If we don't choose to curse, swear or be vulgar we are programmed? If we refrain from sexual activity until married we have flipped our lids? If we love people so much to the fact that we share the words of the Bible with our neighbors as Jesus had done we are cookoo? Let us get the whole assumption correct in reference to much of the problem. I really truthfully believe that people have a problem with confronting themselves and honestly, honestly, HONESTLY reading the Bible and its commandments and then comparing it to how they are living their lives. That is it in my opinion.

Noone wants to look vividly at themselves as God see's them. So they smother and cover themselves with everything else to hide this truth such as many previous statements. Really, Prince hasn't confronted them about anything but honest questions. It is their own conscience that causes a disturbance or verbal reaction. Ask yourself why does it bother you that Prince is no longer using women as sexual objects? Why does it bother you that Prince doesn't use profanity? These are things that you should be questioning yourself! Jehovah's witnesses have been searching for the "truth" of the Bible for over a century and have consistantly grown in this knowledge as with members. If you even open the Bible for appoximately one hour and read perhaps some chapters you will see that the focus is on redemption from sin. Prince was always spiritual, he has just chosen as thousands of others world-wide to embrace the truth more wholesouled. Trust me, he didn't just start a few years ago. Probably was a life long search.

My individual search happened when I asked myself why I was following the religion of my parents? Honestly, why? I just accepted what my folks and relatives believed in without my own personal search. I am not stupid and am the most cautious person that I know. I am not "fooled" easily or "tricked". My soul effort prior to being J.W. was to honestly find out if they were lying to many as my "parents" taught me. I was going to sift them out and study and find out the mistakes. How could I fail since I had prayed prior to this endeavor for truth to be revealed? A few short years later I happily joined them got baptized and am mentally happy and sound in this belief for years. Before you prejudge someone or a world-wde organization, try to get the facts straight. And even if you get certain truth beyond some questions leave the judgement up to God.

What's strange about this whole thing is the bias againsst JW's in particular that is displayed by some of the people commenting on this issue (check out the first post in this thread "Prince a jehovah's witness...is he totally losing it or what..").

Personally, I have friends and family of many different religious affilliations. I can't imagine saying to any of them "you're jewish? Are you losing it? Hindu, what's wrong with you?" etc... I suspect that if Prince had chosen a more "mainstream" faith he would get less grief on the org about it.

Yet for some, because Prince has affilliated himself with JW's, he's obviously lost his mind and been led astray. I understand that the somewhat generic psuedo-Christian beliefs that Prince used to profess may have been easier for many to digest, but like almost everyone in the world, he's grown up and formed definitive beliefs. Since he has put them out there, discussing his religious beliefs should not be out of bounds. However, criticising his particular choice of belief and arguing that he should believe something else that is more pallatable to a wider audience is, in my opinoin, intolerant and cheap.

DavidEye said:

Actually she said that that came back to her from Paisley. She assumed that it was Prince. It could have been Wanda the cleaning lady for all we know. He had a whole lot of JW advisors at the time, and one with a more militant viewpoint may have been the one who sent that decree out to the Revolution members at the time. I really don't think Prince was actually interested in a Revolution reunion at the time, so he probably had someone in his group handle these inquiries from former band members (this is just supposition on my part. I just think it makes more sense than Prince just waking up one day and deciding that he was okay with homosexuality. He NEVER has publicly said anything denouning homosexuals)

One more thing to ponder: not all JWs are 100% in line with their Churches doctrines. Just like Catholics, Methodists, Babtists etc, you have JWs that are rather militant, and others who are more relaxed. Some may feel that homosexuality is truly evil, and that spending time with gays is sinful, while others may think that it is really none of their business what someone does in the bedroom.

I've talked to many different JWs over the years, having friendly discussions and debates with them over Biblical doctrine (MightBQueen and Saffireseven both spring to mind). I've found that the vast majority are pretty open minded, and willing to listen to differing opinions. Sure, you have some that will only see JW doctrine as true, and refuse to see any other viewpoint, but don't all religions and philosophies have folks like that?

MightBQueen is a truly fantastic example of a JW with an extremely open mind. She and I have discussed so many different things over the years, and I can tell ya that she always listens (and, surprise surprise, she makes up her own mind on things, not her JW elders). I'm not a JW, and she is willing to discuss my views as well as her own! Most of the JWs I've interacted with have been like her, with the intolerant ones really being in the minority.

All I'm saying is, think before you make a blanket statement about a group of people. I think folks would be truly up in arms if someone came on here and made some comment about how Muslims are all terrorists (and they would be right to), so how is this different? Every group has a couple of bad apples, but that doesn't mean they all are bad.