that would be a blow eh!!!

i still love the fact that he dances to the beat of his own drummer...go on prince!!even on an aboutturn re majors he still comes out of it looking pretty cool!

I don't see how the majors can do anything BUT reject this plan. It would set a precedent they are very afraid of setting.

But it's a pretty brilliant idea, and gotta respect him for trying. Will lead to good publicity, for sure.

They all DID reject him...
Do you think after the way he fucks his fans & the way he fucked Artista & WB

Would you lose your job by giving by signing a "just another sucker" deal?
Poor boy had nothing to announce at the so called Press Conference but dreams

Oh yeah, that would be great, instead of buying in a store we'd have to order it from NPGMC.

jonylawson said:

jonylawson said:

Would it? Prince had his own label that can release his music. If that means ordering from NPGMC, so what? They did alright wit the last releases. THe crystal Ball problem is old news and was obviously corrected. I always get everything I ordered from NPGMC and 1800NEWFUNK.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 26 7:13:29 2004 by NPGLOVER]

RomeoMustDie said:

Nonsense. He didn't "fuck" WB or Arista. He and the then regime at WB had a dispute over several different things, all of which is now irrelevant now that those suits are no longer at WB. The current pres of WB has stated to the press on more than one occassion that he wants to re-sign Prince. As for Arista, P had a deal with Clive Davis, not Arista. When Arista fired Clive, P (and MANY other artists) walked. Arista could very easily continued to promote the album with singles, but they chose not to.

Several labels are competing to sign a deal with P. I'm sure he knows that his plan to have all the majors distribute him won't fly with many, but this is his way of seeing who is willing to "think outside the box". He has the upper-hand for the first time in many years with the majors, and he is exploiting it to full effect.

I'd have a good laugh.

JediMaster said:

I agree
He's definitely challenging the labels to do something innovative for a change.

OdysseyMiles said:

Yes indeed... and setting a good example for other artists in the process. Think of the label as YOUR employee and not vice-versa. Since the artist produces the goods, labels SHOULD compete to see who will best serve the goals that particular artist has for the project. It makes so much sense, its no wonder that no label really wants to agree to the plan. It places them in the 'middle man' role they don't seem to want to acknowledge, but everyone with eyes and a free mind sees they should be in. I'm soo interested in how other artists interpret this. I'll bet most are so happy with their "House" artist role, they resent P for trying to change the paradigm.

JumpUpOnThe1 said:

So called "Press Conference" is long over and our hero had nothing to announce but soup kitchen dreams.. REJECTED... get over it.

So enough with the fam bs.. Plus if i owned a label.. do you think i'm going to let a hit-less artist undersell me by allowing others to ship it?? You're out of your p-brainwashed mind if you believe it.

Somehow I don't think that even Prince truly believes that the idea of all the labels releasing the album will fly. But you gotta admire his balls for coming up with an idea like that and actually saying it out loud.

The music industry is full of analysts, accountants and strategists and they're not stupid. They realize that technology has changed, the music-buying public has changed (in large part due to their approach to music as product) and they know that they have to introduce some new paradigms regarding ownership and distribution if they want to continue to skim the cream off of the artists.

Prince has thrown out a challenge. Let 'em chew on it and come back with a counteroffer and the negotiations will go on from there.

RomeoMustDie said:

I am not sure I am understanding your point...
U think Prince called a press conference THINKING he had something to announce...then didn't???
That does not make sense.
He announced exactly what he called the conference to announce.

I checked the venues where the concerts are selling...Man! what great sales!
The Staples sold out so fast!...He had to make another date and it's selling out too.
Whether one wants to admit it or not. Prince is a hot item right now.
Many were reminded at the Grammy...MANY!!!!!
Once this world tour is over, I think he can sit back and relax...and let things flow.
Folks in Minneapolis say he has hired a whole bunch of people lately at Paisley.
So maybe he is not worried about who will distribute his album.
It's hard to believe that after 20 years, someone who appealed to the baddest is now
appealing to the best.

SensualMelody said:

I think he is.

HalluRain said:

Here you go:

The labels willing to distribute, market and promote Musicology worldwide will also get the right to distribute Prince's 80's classics in re-mastered form.

The 80's classics will have to be remastered and re-issued starting this year and the coming years over a time span of a minmum of 5 and a maximum of 10 years, worldwide, by two different major labels (WB for the US market, Universal for the markets outside the US). Prince owns the copyrights in the RE-masters, the labels an exclusive license to distribute them. Prince will receive 35% of the net profits, the band members 15% and the labels 50%. No advances, no loans, but the labels AND Prince will share the costs (70-30) and be obliged to promote the remasters to the best of their abbility.

Further: the re-masters will be uncensored (with a possible exception of a limited supply of cencored versions), remastered with the latest and finest sound recording technology and be packaged in two dics sets (with the possible exception of a box set for the entire decade). The second discs will contain outtakes, vault material and/or live material from the era of the remastered album.


--
[This message was edited Mon Mar 1 8:07:22 2004 by Abrazo]

Abrazo said:

I doubt he is. It seems Londell has turned prince on to"how to market rockstars for dummies... " perhaps .... in seeing what he is doing here it seems these are great strategies he's using.. I mean he just sold out the staples center in LA.....



has there been that much of a demand since the old Purple Rain Great Western Forum dates?




btw... sure this is the last ime he plays old songs.... they said that fsince 96..
[This message was edited Mon Mar 1 7:03:00 2004 by APOO]

APOO said:

I don't know, but if I would be him, I would be worried that Musicolgy gets the attention it deserves and that my classics would be remastered, especially in this year 2004.

RomeoMustDie said:

Yep, that brainwashing was SO effective, it made me hallucinate the CEO of Warner Bros. Records stating in an interview that one of his goals was to re-sign Prince! It was also so good, it made me hallucinate Tommy Motolla saying in an interview that he wished he'd been able to sign Prince last year. In fact, I'm so completely brainwashed, I imagined tons of news sources reporting that WB, J Records and Sony were all competing to sign P! Man, I need to go listen to some Kenny G records to de-program myself!

Abrazo said:

Sounds wonderful! But my understanding was that WB owns the masters for all the old catalog, so unless Prince can get the rights to those masters back from WB, he can't shop an offer for re-mastering rights to any other label. In fact, he can't do anything at all with them, which has been the problem all along.

In order to do this, he'd have to re-record each track to create a new master which isn't at all the same thing as remastering his back catalog -- 1999 TNM anyone?

In short, we won't hear remasters of Prince's back catalog unless 1) WB decides to do it, 2) Prince gets ownership of his master recordings back and does it himself or grants rights to a label to do it, or 3) Prince waits until the 25 year period is up for each album at which time he gets the masters back automatically, then see #2. If this is the case, we could look forward to a remaster of For You in the next year or so.

HalluRain said:

That's true. But if they want to make the best of 2004, his new found publicity and the coming years they will have to come to an understanding. As it probably is right now, both Prince and WB, can't do anything with remasters, because both need to give their permission for it. 2004 is the year to settle this dispute. The deal I described is that Prince will own the copyrights in the re-masters (therefore not necessarily the old masters which WB can still hold on to in this scheme)


Nope, there you don't understand. Re-masters are not the same as re-recorded "new" masters (like '1999 the new master'). Remasters are the old masters with updated excellent sound quality (according to today's sound recording technology standards).

1) Nope, WB can't release remasters without Prince's permission (probably, not entirely sure)
2) Is a possibility and Prince's wish, but not necessary. What is necessary is an agreement on a remaster release. Both prince and WB depend on eachother's permission for this.
3) Nope, the period you talk about is 35 instead of 25 years, and may even not be an option in Prince's case.
2)

OK, Abrazo, thanks for straightening me out. But I'm still a little confused....

If WB owns the original master tape, how can Prince go to anyone else and make a deal to remaster them with updated technology and all unless he gets WB to either give him the original tapes or they get a cut? They still need the original tape to remaster them, right?

So, if WB isn't in on the deal, then no remastering can take place. Prince would have to re-record the tracks and shop the newly recorded masters to other labels which wouldn't be nearly as tempting.

35 years?!? No wonder P's so pissed!

HalluRain said:

You are absolutely correct. WB own the original master tapes for all of P's albums released through 94. In order for either party to do anything with them, they have to get permission from the other, unless otherwise stated in the original contract (for example, the contract does give WB the right to release compilations as they see fit, hence that awful "Very Best Of Prince" that was released a while back).

Well, didn't the CEO of WB say that he wanted to collaborate with P on a reissue scheme? With a whole new regime in power now at WB and P being a hot commodity, I'm sure they'll do their damndest to come to some kind of agreement. I noticed that when I went onto http://www.play.com at the weekend that most of the classic P albums were now out of stock.

Cross your fingers.

Last year it seemed impossible, now it seems like a possibility.

2004, eh?

It's a lovely idea but it only works with artists who have already achieved great success and have a substantial fan base who will snatch up every release as soon as it drops. Whether Prince really fits this description is up for debate, but it's not a mindset that works for most artists since they're struggling to get any record deal at all.

Do any of you guys actually want remastered Prince cd's? I'm totally satisfied with the sound quality on the cd's I already have. Of course with bonus tracks, or hopefully a bonus disc, I would buy the WB stuff again. I hope the 12" singles are included!

OF COURSE....WE ALL WANT REMASTERED CDS!!!!!

Trust me, when you hear Adore remastered, you'll understand...

major
labels
make
Major
Money

not
major
Losses

JediMaster said:

Good questions and good answer by jedimaster. But I would like to add some explanation and adapt a couple of conclusions.

First, one does not necessarily need the original master tapes in order to make remasters. Technically it's preferable but not necessary to use the original source tapes; a copy of those tapes can also be used.

The problem lies in the question who owns the right (comprised under copyright) to do that. The answer to that question of who owns the right to release remasters of the original sound recordings (the original masters) is mainly a contractual matter and a matter of copyright rules.

Copyright vests in the author/performer of the work/ the sound recording (the original master). The author can transfer his copyright to another, by contract, in whole or in part. What rights comprised under copyright WB has aquired from Prince is therefore mainly a matter of what the contractual transfer exactly states.

Therefore I should also point out that much of this is basically speculation, because we only know very little for sure about what the contracts between Prince and WB state. However, based on experience and the few things we do know we can make some reasonable assumptions about how the legal situation probably is.

Like Jedimaster said, I say that it is probably true that in order to do anything with the originally mastered sound recordings (original mastertapes) Prince and WB need eachother's permission, unless otherwise stated in the original contracts. Those contracts were concluded in the late 70's and 80's when modern day remastering technology wasn't invented yet. Therefore these original contracts probably did not transfer the right to WB to release remasters of the original tapes (at least not the right to release remasters using the latest modern technology, which would bascially be mandatory for a modern day commercial release). Thus WB needs Prince's permission to do that legally.

Ohter reasons to assume this are that, if the original contracts would have transferred the right to release remasters, then we would have probably already seen a few remaster releases by WB (e.g a remaster of 1999). Since we haven't seen that, but we did see an "un- remastered" greatest hit compilation, and Prince and WB have been feuding for about 10 years now, it's logical to conclude that WB can't release remasters without Prince's permission, probably due to an incomplete contractual transfer of copyright.

This conclusion of what's probable (WB needs Prince's permission to release remasters due to an incomplete contractual transfer of copyright) can however not automatically lead to the conclusion that Prince therefore can release remasters himself without WB's permission. At least... not on CD format, because we can be fairly sure that the original contracts with WB do fully transfer to WB the right to release CD's of the original mastertapes. Since a re-mastered sound recording is basically a (enhanced) copy of the original master, releasing CD's of remasters would constitute releasing copies of the original masters and therefore be covered by WB's exclusive right to release CD's of those original masters. Prince therefore, probably, needs WB's permission to release remasters on CD just as well.

Following that logic, Prince however, perhabs, does not need WB's permission to release remasters on MP3 (or any other modern day sound format) over the internet, because like the right to release remasters, the original contracts probably did not secure that right for WB either, again due to the fact that these contracts were concluded in the 70's and 80's and therefore could not (or otherwise very arbitrary) have covered internet and MP3 release rights. I think that is the reason why we did not see a remastered greatest hit compilation by WB, but we did see remastered versions of Prince's classics released on MP3 by the NPGMC last year (altho' I'm not entirely sure if those MP3's were technically copied from remastered sound recordings).

So, based on the above logic and explanation, Prince indeed can't release remastered sound recordings on CD without WB's permission and WB can't without Prince's permission. They need eachother's permission to do that. Therefore, if they both want to release remasters on CD, they need to come to an agreement and settle their past disputes. 2004 is the year to do that. Otherwise it would probably become a matter of waiting another 10 years before the first transferred rights (to the For You recording) are transferred back to Prince.

Prince is probably pissed off about that, but if he gets the transferred rights back after 35 years he is still a lucky man to have concluded these contracts under US copright law, because only US copyright law knows the rule that a contractual transfer of copyright (or any right comprised under copyright) can be turned around after 35 years.


--
[This message was edited Tue Mar 2 3:44:44 2004 by Abrazo]

daned said:

Yep, 2004 is the year.

They do once a record is a hit, but because they also release so many bad (selling) records their losses are big too.