OdysseyMiles said:

I disagree. The minute you stop challenging yourself and you become predictable, you lose your artistic edge. In that case art, the act of creating, has given way to craftsmanship. Art is like a search for growth, a struggle to find new ways to express what words alone can't. It's not playing to what you know your fan base wants and expects to hear.

I love Sade and I like The Boss but they are more entertainers at this point than artists. They are great at what they do but they hold on to their fan bases because they remain the same, albeit at a high quality level. Honestly ask yourself when the last time Sade, Bruce, or the Stones made you really feel anything. I won't throw Bowie in here, because I consider him to be a true artist. Like Prince he has always taken risks and with that, unfortunately you'll lose a lot of fans.

Maybe you have to be one or know one to understand but there's a difference. I guess the best way to put it is that good art will surprise you, it will help you grow, and at the very least it will make you really feel it. You'll know it's the truth as soon as it's revealed.
[This message was edited Thu Feb 26 13:50:30 2004 by whodknee]

NME said:

No bathroom is required I just pissed on your theory that Prince is broke.

Like I said, we've been hearing that noise since the late 80's.Give me some evidence and I'll believe you. I am not saying that Prince isn't motivated by $$$ , but the fact that he is doing an arena tour isn't exactly an indicator that he is strapped for cash. Part of the reason people are freaking out around this website is because they think an arena tour is financially risky (worried about 1/2 full venues etc.).

So instead of throwing out a snide remark about the purple kool-aid I drink, why not discuss what makes you think Prince is broke?

"Somebody say kool-aid (Kool-aid!!!) Jerk it...."

Springsteen and the Rollingstones are white! The black community ain't going to see Prince in masses unless he comes with a bonified hit lp. Just the way it is. He been gone too long. White audience may show to some degree. Hope his media splash works.

A lot of acts played arenas still after their popularity has gone down, but Prince isn't Michael Jackson. And he's been off the scene too long. A great grammy performance and Hall of Fame induction is not gonna make him sell out arenas.

Thumparello said:

It was a Grammy performance that got folks talkin' about good 'ol Ricky Martin, remember?? Ya never know what can happen.

Thumparello said:

Are you saying that Prince's can't get as much support from his black fans as his white fans?
Hmmm. Be glad that Prince isn't Michale Jackson.

skywalker said:

Or Michael Jackson.

skywalker said:

Great points, Sky...Prince IS hotter now than he was on the JOTY/NPS tours. The Musicology shows are going to sell very well. The Grammys, all the talk show appearances, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction are putting Prince in the best positive light. And on a side note, the Lovesexy Tour was incredible, one of my favorite shows of all time, even though I saw it in a half-full house (Greensboro Coliseum '88).

But here's the thing, and it's a very big thing. No one here seems to understand the business nature of this Musicology Tour. Prince is not taking any risks whatsoever; the PROMOTER is taking all the risks; and the PROMOTER has taken key steps to MINIMIZE those risks. That's it in a nutshell, and if you care about the specifics, read on.

The "Up-Front" Contract
For the Musicology Tour, Prince worked out a deal similar to the deals that the Stones created and used on all their recent tours. Other acts such as The Who have worked out similar deals in recent years. This is the rage for the top tier of performers, and if you want current examples, see the Celine Dion and Elton John extended Vegas engagements.

Here's how this type of deal works:

The Promoter pays the artist (in this case, Prince) a large up-front fee. One lump sum for the entire tour. This is the artist's payment for the ENTIRE tour, and the lump sum nature of the payment increases its value. That's because the lump sum earns interest while the tour is in progress.

This is the exact opposite of the traditional tour model, where the artist sweats it out show by show, town by town, worrying about the gate receipts. This new model frees the artist from worry. The artist has already been paid! HANDSOMELY. And in this case, this particular artist will pad his profits with aftershows, which are not part of the arena tour arrangement.

In return, the promoter "owns" every aspect of the arena tour. The promoter writes specific demands and requirements into the artist's contract, including set length, number of shows, duration of tour, and so on, right down to the set list.

It's a business and you better believe that every Top 40 song Prince ever had will be played on this tour. Almost every song from his biggest album "Purple Rain" will also be played. That's because the promoter included the list in the contract. They aren't stupid! They aren't giving a lump some payment to someone and saying "play what you like." They are getting exactly what they need to sell the maximum number of tickets. This is why Prince displayed a list of hit songs at his press conference. Those are the song titles that are in the contract.

So, let's proceed to the other components of the deal.

Venue Selection
The promoter picks the venues, with an emphasis on venues that the promoter owns, to maximize their profits. That's why you see the Staples Center on this list - the promoter owns it and they can use the building for a minimal investment. It is cheaper for this promoter to use the 20,000-seat Staples Center than to rent the 13,500-seat LA Long Beach Arena! So of course, the business decision is simple: Put the show at the bigger house because you own it - and get more capacity for less money. This makes a sellout "nice to have" instead of mandatory.

That's also why you see a number of college venues on the list - because colleges are the easiest, and most agreeable places for promoters to arrange shows. Colleges are always looking to make extra money and, since the colleges own the arenas and use them for athletic teams, colleges can offer promoters great deals in comparison to non-college venues. Simply put, IT'S CHEAPER to use a college athletic venue than any other type of venue.

Marketing & Advertising
The promoter handles all the promotion and publicity in each market, using a raft of media connections, sweetheart deals and bulk national buying from major media conglomerates. For example: A promoter can get a great deal on newspaper ads by purchasing them at a bulk rate from large newspaper corporations like Knight-Ridder. Knight-Ridder owns a bunch of different papers in many different markets. So the promoter buys in bulk and then places certain percentages in different target markets. This is extremely cost-effective and much CHEAPER than what Prince had to do on the ONA tour (buy each newspaper ad separately in each different market).

This marketing piece is a HUGE part of what makes this formula work. The promoter has big-time buying power and money talks. It's all about volume discounts and working the connections. Another example: This promoter has existing relationships with Tickets.com and Ticketmaster. The promoter buys banner ads on the ticketing websites and pays the ticketing corporations for dedicated e-mails to subscribers. These marketing purchases translate to increased awareness and more importantly, increased ticket sales. And the promoter gets volume discounts because the promoter has a well-planned approach. They buy a big package up front, divide it up around the country throughout the tour, and greatly decrease their per-piece (or in this case, per-show) marketing costs.

Scheduling, Ticket Prices & Attendance
The promoter sets the ticket prices at the top limit of what each particular market will bear, using formulas and averages from each different market. The promoter also schedules as many performances into the time period as humanly possible. That's why you see so many three-nights-in-a-row performances on this tour. It is a complete, holistic approach and it's extremely effective from a BUSINESS perspective. It's about minimizing risks and costs; maximizing profit potential; and averaging costs out over an entire tour.

Because the promoter is applying well-planned formulas, it's not mandatory to sell out every show, or even one show. As long as these shows AVERAGE a 60% full rate, the tour will be profitable. Anything over a 60% average will be pure gravy for the promoter!

Planning and Advance Notice
Planning and advance notice are key elements in profitability of this type of tour. That's why you are seeing tickets onsale for a month or many months in advance. The promoter takes the ticket sales and earns interest on the receipts for a long period before the show date. Then, on or after the show date, they pay the venue. The media purchases (including newspaper ads, radio ads, e-mail marketing, etc.) are also on net-30 to net-90 terms. This means the promoter is making money long before their expenses must be paid. It's a great model for the promoter and again, it's all about maximizing profits.

LONG STORY SHORT
Prince has already made a huge amount of money on this tour. And the promoters are going to make their money too. Anyone worried about these shows selling out, your concerns are misplaced. Just go to the shows and enjoy! I guarantee that's what Prince will be doing!!

As I said at the top of the page-

Prince is probably smarter than anyone at prince.org about music and the music business. He knows what he is doing.

However, Temptation is pretty damned smart.

All I know is quite a few of my friends, who are not big fans, want to see him this year. I think the word has gone out quite well.

my 2 cents for a very long thread!

skywalker said:

In terms of business, if Prince is so smart, then:

~ why did he not tour the North America for Sign 'O The Times and then wait a year to tour there for Lovesexy? Sign O' The Times was a much better received record than Lovesexy was, financially, critically and would've been in terms of attendance, even though overall the Lovesexy tour was his second highest attended tour.

~ why did he not tour North America for Batman or Diamonds & Pearls? They are two of Prince's top 5 selling albums and went double platinum in the US (2 million+). He could've had attendance equal or top the North American Lovesexy tour.

~ why did Prince not tour North America proper in 1993 on The Act I tour when he could've played to 2-3x the amount of people, especially in the markets he actually did play in? Afterall, went platinum (1 million +) in the US and sold 3 million worldwide.

~ why would Prince book 10-20,000 seat arenas in North America on the Musicology tour this year when he was playing to 2-4,000 people a night just a short two years ago?

Questions, questions, questions...



Temptation,

Tell me something I don't know.

And btw, half of the arenas won't average 60% capacity, they'll average 50% capacity, if that. Also, Prince is booked into Staples Center because LA is one of the few cities where he can sell out a venue of that size on this tour. It would be stupid to book him into the Long Beach Arena early in this tour. The only way he'd be playing there is if there's a return engagement in the Fall after he plays in Europe.

TheGoldExperience said:

Uh Oh temptation you woke up my friend The Gold Experience

Listen, hindsight is 20/20. Why don't you manage Prince? Maybe it isn't always about making money. Maybe it is. Maybe he didn't tour with BATMAN because he was making a movie. Maybe he didn't tour with Diamonds and Pearls because he didn't want to tour the States again due to a low turnout in the US for the "Lovesexy" tour. Who knows? Ask Prince.

skywalker said:

A low turnout? You obviously can't read. Lovesexy tour is Prince's second highest attended tour. He played to 600,000 people in the North America, 500,000 in Europe and 200,000 in Japan.

TheGoldExperience said:

The first convert at Melbourne definately sold out (12,000) and the second night was about 98% sold out with ONLY the very last row of seats not sold.

Believe me, I was there.

TheGoldExperience said:

There you are, I missed you. Give me some venue attendance numbers for the US and where you got them and I'll believe you. Was the Met Center (In the Twin Cities) sold out for the "Lovesexy" tour?

bkw said:

No it wasn't.


October 2003

21, 22 Melbourne, VIC – Rod Laver Arena (capacity. 21,650; attendance; 21,229)

skywalker said:

You never learn, do you!

http://home.quicknet.nl/q...esexy.html

And the second Met Center in '88 didn't sell out.

I am so glad that Prince's concern is music and not doing things according to the specifications of what people say. To be honest, if I never hear the "hits" from 1999 or Purple Rain, I wouldnt be upset. Next to his pre-Purple Rain material, I am enjoying his output now more than at any other time. I could do w/o Take Me With You, Corvette, Baby Im A Star and all that in favor of The Work, Family Name and Xenophobia. So I say forget appealing to the "fickle" masses and just play music

I Think Prince Does Know what he is DOING... Everything in Life is a Chance. He has LOADS of Fans and he is Doing his Classic Hits. Hopefully he will win Back some lost Fans and even some pople who just were into Purple Rain. All of these TV shows are good Exposure showing how Young,Talented, and Cool Prince is . That he is in the Hall Of Fame. That he is a Gorgeous Black Musician ROLe MODEL. Listen, Prince is on FIRE!!

TheGoldExperience said:

21, 22 Melbourne, VIC – Rod Laver Arena (capacity. 21,650; attendance; 21,229)

How about some quotes like this for the "Lovesexy" shows?

Anyway, do you agree or disagree with what Temptation posted? You seem really angry when you type things "You never learn, do you." Like a crazy comic book villain- "Your love of Prince music can never defeat my incredible display of facts.. muwuhahahah!" You are fun to talk to.

If Temptation's post is correct, (the tour contract sounds very cool) it may be the reason Prince is so comfortable looking and laid back right now. I know I would be .

skywalker said:

I somewhat agree with what Temptation said.

skywalker said:

Give me a break. I'm not angry. I'm laughing because you just don't get it as I always prove you wrong.

Thumparello said:

i don't know what prince shows you've been to (in what cities etc.) but usually when i look at the audience of a prince show, it is mostly white folks. i don't see how this has anything to do with whether or not he'd sell out a venue but...ok...

Regardless of what Prince plays or whether or not his concerts sell out, this is one die hard fan that will make my apperance at 2 of the shows.