After Rave failed, we saw Prince take a very bizarre turn in his musical style.

TRC was released, and it wasn’t the Prince we loved anymore.

There were some songs on it that were great, but way too much of the album was filled with dull jazz.

Why Prince felt the need to go down this path, I’ll never know, but I think it tainted the album much the same way that atrocious hip hop tainted albums like in the 90’s.

Just look at a few songs from TRC that pretty much no one liked at all…Maybe it's just me, but...

Rainbow Children
Muse 2 The Pharaoh
Mellow
The Work Pt. 1

Now compare that to the awesome songs on it that weren’t poisoned by Prince’s boring vision of jazz…

1+1+1=3
The Sensual Everafter
She Loves Me 4 Me
Last December

^Wouldn’t you love a new album with songs like THAT on it, minus the coma-inducing jazz numbers?

See, I don’t think Prince’s problem right now is a lack of creativity. I think his problem is thinking he can be this jazz icon, when really, he can’t.

It’s not a genre he pulls of well. When I hear Prince doing jazz, it sounds more like he’s imitating great jazz artists than becoming one himself.

Prince was meant to be funky, rock like crazy on the guitar, and create unique songs that speak of love, sex, and spirituality, but the man was NOT meant to be a prominent jazz figure.

The sooner he realizes that, the better off we’ll be.

I can tell you one thing, though. If Musicology is filled with jazzy numbers like TRC was, ppl will stop caring about him again in an instant.
[This message was edited Sun Feb 22 23:54:48 2004 by PurpleKnight]

No, no and no.....


In short, NO!


Stormbringer

Please speak for yourself when you say no-one likes the first songs you name. I for one, love Rainbow Children, Muse and Mellow.

Other than that, I'm sorry to say, but I really thought TRC, Xpectation and NEWS were rather good. I like the 'jazz' stuff. I wouldn't mind if there were some jazzy songs on the new album, not at all.

The only thing I hope is that he has set aside the religious lyrics. I want songs that are catchy and lyrically non-offensive... Reflection and Musicology are definitely a step in the right direction for me.

Peace,

Antoon.

I agree totally with Antoon.
Let the vibe stay alive including all the jazzy elements. YES!

@rt.
[This message was edited Mon Feb 23 0:30:24 2004 by art]

PS: I Want U is jazzy, uplifting (for me one of the most joyous moments on the Vegas DVD) and unreleased. For me, he may without a doubt put this song on the Musicology album.

No, I can't agree with u at all. TRC was Prince's best album in a long time, and while Xpectation and NEWS weren't on a par with TRC they were still very good. I like his current style, it's something I've been hoping he'd do for a long time. I like the real instruments and I'm glad the programmed beats are gone.

I'd rate TRC as one of my top 3 or 4 Prince albums as far as how much I enjoy it and how often I play it. The older stuff is amazing of course, and I love the classic albums, but everyone needs new music to listen to and TRC is Prince's best in a long while. I don't think Prince is trying to be anything in particular, he's just into this sound right now.

As for sounding like a jazz-wannabe, what does that really mean? So he's not allowed to play something with a jazz flavour? Why is that? Jazz is so diverse, and Prince touches on it in many different ways. Are u suggesting he won't ever be considered a jazz legend like Coltrane, Miles Davis or Monk? What does that mean anyway? He's not a jazz artist as such but he has an appreciation of it obviously and it's something he can DO for sure.

Are u going to tell him he can't play jazz? He's Prince, and u know he can pretty much play whatever style he wants. Jazz is hardly far from where u might say his most impressive musical qualities lie.

Prince is an excellent musician and it just so happens that a lot of the best musicians are found in the musically sophisticated world of jazz. It makes sense for Prince to stretch his legs in this field since after jazz there's really nowhere to go technically but down (besides classical perhaps but let's be somewhat realistic). Prince is worthy of making jazz music and deserves respect for his efforts influenced by it since they are decent efforts.

The fact that u find his 'jazz' boring says more, I'd warrant, about your appreciation of jazz than it does about Prince's abilities to play it.

Hope not! I thought RC was a really cohesive album with the jazz and the funk working well. Those first 4 songs you mentioned I think are great! He may move away from the jazz a bit this year while he has his Revolution Project, but the NPG is a totally jazz biased band, and I expect he will include jazzy aspects in all his new material. Prince has always respected jazz, and definitely as he gets older and maturer I feel that's pretty much the direction he'll grow - so you better get used to it!

fauxnewbie said:

It's not that I don't think the man can play jazz, because he's obviously a brilliant musician. I just don't think his jazz heavy songs are amongst his better work. His jazz songs just don't do it for me, they're just "there".

I feel like it's him trying too hard to pull off a style that simply isn't his greatest strength as a recording artist.

It's not that I don't respect jazz as an art form, but it's just that I feel Prince is really limiting his fanbase with this style. He pulls off other genres of music much, much better.

I think TGE was his last really great album.

antoon said:

I agree.

I wouldn't mind one or two jazzy songs on the new album, but I REALLY don't want the new album to be jazz dominated.

Let it be only a small addition to the sound of the album.

PurpleKnight said:

i agree that the instrumental jazz stuff needs to be left alone but youve got it mixed up about TRC songs. she loves me 4 me is very jazzy, for instance. and what prince does is jazz fusion anyway. fact is he isnt good at vocal-less jazz fusion, hes kinda crap at it actually. he doesnt have the chops or skill to compose jazz but he thinks he can for some reason. most jazz guys couldnt write brilliant 3-4 minute songs and vice versa but hes in this stupid stage of thinking he has to prove that hes a 'real' musician or something.

PurpleKnight said:

I'm a huge fan of TRC. I'm not so keen on Xpectation, but I do like NEWS.

However, I do feel that it's time for a change of direction. And I think we're going to get it. After all, this 'jazz phase' has been with him for approximately 3 years and, let's face it, Prince hardly ever stays put.

Bring on the funk, rock, reggae-opera, baroque-rap, latin, new-age, pop, whatever type music, I say.

Personally, I feel that after the failure of Rave, Prince was concerned about his commercial ability since after Rave two albums had failed significantly, NewPowerSoul and RUTJF.

I really crave a funk album, even if every song was kind of Jazzy funk like 1+1+1=3 cause I love that song.
Bring back Housequake, Now, Sexy MF and all of that - Prince, be cool again. (Remember when he used to dress funky too? Damn the muthafucka was cool then, I miss all those trippy NPG 90s clothes )

PurpleKnight said:

Muscology is gonna be jazz/funk the latest offerings point only to this. Sorry but that makes me

PurpleKnight said:

PurpleKnight said:

Actually I would like to hear Prince do a Jazz album. He has never done it before (Madhouse doesnt qualify), so it would be something new.

funkbabyandthebabysitters said:

That`s a stupid remark. Maybe Prince is simply enjoying to play instrumental fusion tracks, did you ever think of that possibility?

Maaaan. Ubiquity's on a rinsing rampage.

However, I have one question for you - I study jazz piano, and have had to learn MUCH about jazz. And I can't really classify TRC as funk when I compare it to Parliament Funkadelic and Prince's other Funk stuff (and to stay in your guidelines, this is my opinion, not a generalisation), so I can only classify TRC as Jazz. Furthermore, when I put both Old Friends 4 Sale and TRC in my iTunes thingy to rip onto my computer, they defined it as jazz - it is jazz; but it is modern "acid" jazz, not traditional jazz I think, and personally I crave the Cammille Funk, not the 1+1+1=3 funk, amittedly I LOVE 1+1+1, but I prefer Housequake and other items such as that, which 1+1+1 is not as good as imho (but don't get me wrong, I love 1+1+1, I think it's one, if not the best, of his greatest studio songs since TGE)

_
[This message was edited Mon Feb 23 5:22:12 2004 by Spookymuffin]

This is all ur opinion!

people will have there own opinions...in my own, RAINBOW CHILDREN was and is a great PRINCE ALBUM!

Its different, I'm 25 and it ain't typical, but I LOVE THIS RECORD and the ONA -LIVE BOX SET!

I jam these cds all the time!

Even my friends who are non-prince fans ask me to play it when in my car!
TRC and all his Jazz oriented work, is awesome.

PEACE!
BRING MORE ON!

Rave was a rather bizarre musical experiment with so substance and feeling. TRC is a turn back to real music with lotta soul and much funk.

For the record, I actually think TRC is a good album. I just think with less of an emphasis on that fusion jazz found in songs like Rainbow Children, his songs would be a lot more memorable. Give me more songs like 1+1+1=3 and Last December and less songs like Rainbow Children and Muse 2 The Pharaoh.


Who is WE?

Me, and anyone else who happens to agree.

1. Jazz is not dull. Only when you don`t make an effort to listen.
2. There are no Jazz songs on TRC. The title track has a fusion influence, but that`s about it. It`s obvious that you don`t even know what Jazz is.

There are certainly very jazzy songs on TRC. Come on. I just don't happen to really like the sound with Prince often, I don't think it suits him very well. He's pulled off other genres much better, resulting in much more compelling music.


Prince is an artist. His work reflects HIS current state of mind, not yours.

Of course he's an artist, and now I'm saying I hope he evolves from that point in his artistic life.

No, it`s not just you. But to claim that "no one liked TRC" is an amazing example of ignorance. The album - which was not promoted at all - sold more than 100,000 copies. Many former Prince fans, like myself, who lost faith in Prince`s music in the 90s, started believing in him again. Personally, I consider TRC his best piece of work. But that`s just me.

Umm I never said no one liked TRC, I merely said that it didn't seem like many ppl liked those particular songs.

I personally have no idea how anyone with proper hearing can consider TRC better than SOTT though, but that's me.


Boring vision of Jazz???
Seems like you haven`t got any musical vision whatsoever. None of the songs you have mentioned are Jazz. "The Work" is plain funk. But you may not know the difference. I wonder what you find exciting.

Either way The Work is average as all hell. Boring. What do I find exciting? Prince songs that actually go somewhere interesting in their sound. I'm not saying this album didn't have that, but the songs I mentioned certainly didn't to me.

He doesnt think that. And Prince is more creative than ever. Just look at the transition from TRC to ONA to Xpectation to News. But why do I tell you, you don`t understand music anyway.

I already said I don't think his problem is in any kind of lack of creativity. Don't understand music? Look, I never claimed to be a complete student of music, but I do know and appreciate quality whenever I hear it. Am I that familiar with jazz? To be fair, not really. That I'll admit.

I can`t believe this ignorance. First of all, Prince wasn`t "meant to be" anything. He is himself, and he doesnt owe anyone an apology for the music he plays. Second, he is not trying to be a prominent jazz figure. Currently, he is messing around with Funk more than ever. And talking about love, sex, spirituality, unique sounds, crazy rockin on the guitar .. it`s all there, on TRC.

Meant to be as in what he does best.

I never asked for an apology for the music he plays, since I like quite a bit of it even now. Again, I like TRC, but I would've loved it if not for those (imo) dull songs like The Work and Rainbow Children dragging down the excitement. I think it's time to evolve again since he's going mainstream with the new album.

Maybe you shouldn`t be so selfish. Prince is playing for himself first, and THEN for the people who appreciate his music. You obviously don`t. Just don`t listen then.

I appreciate his music, but that doesn't mean I have to blindly love every bit of it. Selfish? How so, really? I'm merely saying what I hope to be true. It's not like I've stopped being a fan because of this.

Who are you, a prophet? People stopped caring about him when he changed his name to an unpronouncable symbol. But since TRC a lot of people started picking up on him again. Thanks to this album, Prince has gained a lot of credibility in the music world.

Yes that's true, but since he's going mainstream with this album, I hope he steered clear of songs like the ones I mentioned. Otherwise the entire deal with going mainstream again will have been kinda pointless for him, though really satisfying for us fans.

Hey, I'm glad Prince gained credibility in the music world. I'm merely speculating and stating my personal tastes, wondering if others might agree.
[This message was edited Mon Feb 23 5:33:44 2004 by PurpleKnight]

antoon said:

Never thought I'd see the day when a Prince fan wanted "lyrically non-offensive" music from Prince.

Ubiquity said:

So, would you not consider N.E.W.S to be a jazz album? And why doesn't Madhouse count ?

Ignoring the bemusing croaks on the album, The Rainbow Children is pretty damn good IMO. The only tracks that i don't particularly wet myself for are Muse, Mellow, and She loves me for me (and obviously WF). Songs like the Everlasting Now, Family name, the Work, Rainbow children - i think they are all fantastic. I'd be a very happy bunny if we got another album like TRC.

But whatever style of music you want to call it, Xpectation was just downright poo.

Actually I was hoping Prince would stick to the jazzy path he has been following lately with TRC & N.E.W.S.
I wish this topic was:
Anyone else hoping Prince has scrapped his attempts at pop hits forever???

i could care less what he does.

AsylumUtopia said:

Madhouse is an instrumental pop album with jazzy influcences. News would be on the edge of a pop/rock/jazz experiment. But neither would qualify as jazz.

Ubiquity said:

Do you consider 'When the lights go down' to be more jazzy? Because it seems to me to be much more structured around a basic melody with improvisations off it.

Just wondering.

Ubiquity said:

Jazz : A style of music, native to America, characterized by a strong but flexible rhythmic understructure with solo and ensemble improvisations on basic tunes and chord patterns and, more recently, a highly sophisticated harmonic idiom.

That definition describes both N.E.W.S and all the Madhouse stuff.