i reckon P should leave the horns for the next album and tour - he overuses them

it all started in 86/87 with the miles davis influence. yes SOME horns, in moderation is all right, but overuse is overkill

the only flaw of the black album was the horns. they were too far in the front. tone them down a bit or make them less prominent, then i could deal with that. take them out, put in some guitar, u've got a perfect black album.

take 93-95 npg, they didn't need any horns and they were 2 funky, off the hook and they were his best band.

horns were used on the exodus album and again it was its only flaw.

turn 2 96 and emancipation. omg he ruined that album due 2 "overhorning". joty and gygo were almost ruined. just watch the emancipation launch show. gygo is drowned out by the horns. they are too repetitive, too simple.

cut to recent years. prince now has a hardcore only fanbase. he isn't trying to get his records in the charts. he isn't trying to gain a new generation of fans. ONA was a jazzfest! yes i think the musics good but if he wants 2 succeed this year, ditch maceo and pals

picture this, prince on a commericial comeback. lets face it, no teenager wants 2 see some religious guy preaching on stage in some double brested suit, playing a guitar, with some guys playing REAL instruments

kids are into rap nowadays, trust me. i'm 13, ALL my friends listen to 2pac, dre, snoop, 50 cent. even i do sometimes.

with his current image and music, he aint ever gonna make a comeback.

ditch the horns
ditch the suit
ditch larry
and he MIGHT make a comeback

He overused Rosie Gaines, too...

I like it when Prince is in big-band horns mode. Listen to some of the funk in aftershows from late '93, with solos by Kathy Jensen, Brian Gallagher etc. - some great stuff that I've never heard other bands do.

Of course, I also adored the '94-'95 NPG, which had no horns at all. And I like the horns in the current band, although he could use them more effectively (subtler or not at all in some cases, stronger in others).

the3rddoctor said:

Really hate her dontcha'?

r1ghteousone said:

rosie gaines was alrite
she was nothing on boni tho imho

MashedPotatoKid said:

I thought i was the youngest Prince fan, and then i find out there's someone here on the org that's 9 years younger than me!! Damn.

Well, at least i'm still the best looking Prince fan





Yeah i messed up with age thing so i made an edit. You got a problem with that?! - edit.
[This message was edited Fri Jan 30 13:21:00 PST 2004 by Sly]

Sly said:

1.u 4 years old!


2.
yea rite!

94-95 had plenty of horns. Horns all over 'Come' and 'The Gold Experience'.
And true music lovers appreciate artists that are true to themselves, not the ones going out of their way to please 13 year-olds.
Prince is not McDonalds.

i hope you are aware that the use of horns has been goin on throughout his whole career...from the get-go.

know all them fluid synth lines p used to have on his first couple albums? the ones where the horns would be if he were to use 'em?

"leave the horns at home"...shiiit, you may as well have told 'im back in '78 and thereabouts to leave the synths alone, too.

OdysseyMiles said:

true, come and tge had horns
but they werent so in your face and (dare i say it) CRAP as the ones now

i aint sayin he HAS to please 13 year olds, but teens are the main market nowdays
if he's doin a greatest hits comeback tour, he aint gonna get far unless he pleases 12-18 yr olds imho

MashedPotatoKid said:

I'm serious Mashed Potato! I feel so guilty when i see what some of these sorry looking Orgers look like

Sly said:

when u see me u just feel ashamed of yoself

MashedPotatoKid said:

you tell that crap to the other teenagers who frequent this site and dig p's current work.


not all folks your age are into rap and all that manufactured mess that passes for music nowadays. when i was your age i didn't care at all for the crap that was bein played on the radio. the same went for a lotta other people who were my age that i knew.

don't pidgeonhole people. take a good look around--a deeper look--and you may be surprised.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

synth lines, are alright
but the music now is live horns, and they in yo face, and a bit annoying.

maybe its just me

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

I think what Mashed Potato is rallying against is Prince's current jazz direction, where he decends into long jams. In particular when he's in the middle of a nice piano number like 'Beautiful ones' or 'Nothing Compares 2u' and then Maceo or someone comes in and does some indulgent sax piece. It kinda ruins it.

Too be honest that might not be what Mash is going on about. But he should be

In all seriousness, i know what i'd like prince to do, but i'm happy that he's doing what he feels he needs to do. it's exciting watching an artist develop.

MashedPotatoKid said:

Hopefully Prince is beyond what some teenagers want. He's almost in his late 40s, there shouldn't be a concern there. They can always go back and listen to his earlier material.

And the horn arrangements have gotten better since then.

MashedPotatoKid said:

a lot of the time, the synth lines were/are in your face, too. so what's the difference?


probably.

Handclapsfingasnapz said:

if it sounded like i was pigeon holing ppl, it wasn't what i meant

i was just trying to say, the majority of teens(50%+) aren't into what you and i call real music. someones gotta change this. if prince wants to change it(it may not be what he intends to do purposly) hes gotta change aswell.

but, he may not even wanna change it. who says he wants more fans :shrugs:

MashedPotatoKid said:

The only reason i feel ashamed is that i'm in an arguement with someone that was still in their mother's belly when i was in the cinema watching 'Ninja Turtles'.

Only fucking with you Mash!

I remember when i was your age. I use to take alot of crap because i liked prince. You probably wont get it as bad now because not many people your age will know who he is.

What you have to understand about prince is that he has done the whole charts and awards thing. He's now in his late 40's and he wants to do what he wants to do. He aint interested in selling himself to the teens.

Though i do feel there's definitely a part of him that feels he deserves more recognition. Though i don't think he's willing to play 'the game' in order to get it.

Sly said:

i aint too keen on jazz
true, prince is gettin older and he may prefer to do a different type of music.

i don't think he is beyond what teens or people in think. if he is, he wouldn't attempt pop/commerical comeback every few years, would he. why else would he play the hits again? for the fans? the true fans have heard it all before, he is trying to get th pr crowd that abanded him in '85 back

the next tour won#t be for us

its gonna be for them

You mean the same way Springsteen got all those teens back with "The Rising" a couple of years back with the E Street Band?

MashedPotatoKid said:

You've just convinced me that Prince making a commercial in this way would be an embarassing nightmare. If you think "no teenager wants 2 see some religious guy preaching on stage in some double brested suit, playing a guitar, with some guys playing REAL instruments" then, believe me, they're not going to be anymore convinced if he changes his attire, drops the horn section. plays more guitar, and panders to the whims of a bunch of rap obsessives.

People will not turn back to Prince based on him changing his double-breasted suit, cutting down on the spiritual dogma, or dropping the horn section.

People will turn back to Prince because they recognise him for the quality of his musicianship, his songwriting abilities, and as a band leader and performer of the highest pedigree.

They'll probably also begrudgingly admire him for his sheer singlemindedness and determination despite the fact that many of his decisions appeared badly thought through, quirky, illogical or even hostile to his keenest admirers.

But,boy, they'll say - he knew how to work with a funky horn section.

langebleu said:

the world is a ALL about image
are you telling me thatkids would still listen to 50 cent if he wore those hideous catsuit skintight things P was rocking during Rave?
would Britney and Christina sell records if they wore clothes?
earth is a very image-concious and materialistic world
looks are everything nowadays

MashedPotatoKid said:

50 Cent




"HE GOT SHOT 10 TIMES!!!"
-Chris Rock





and Britney & Christina look better with their clothes off...


Prince is a selective artist, if people don't like him, he doesn't give a shit, it's more money he's losing out on. He just cares when Manuela isn't on the rag just kidding!

MashedPotatoKid said:

If looks are everything, then there's no need to leave the horns at home.

oh dear oh dear, and I thought there was hope for and from the younger generation.
Mash, what do you want from Prince? sounds like you want something he simply isn't.
Horns are crap? You call Maceo, Greg, Eric and Candy crap... what would be a good horn Mash? you can't get better than Maceo! I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Image is everything, maybe when you're 13 (are you really?) and are being sold that by every kinda device possible, from what you eat to what you wear to what you listen to...
If you believe that, -and I was 13 once and didn't only go with what was "in"- then I have to be patronising and say when you get to Prince's age, there's more to life than image or than "comebacks". What ever can be said about Prince he is musically far more interesting and talented than to go with something because it's in.
Prince has gone a long way to paying tribute to musicians who made great music.
If you want a world poplulated with cute boys and girls miming to a DAT you are going the right way about it.
Perhaps he should ditch Renato and Blackwell too since they are pretty much what you call real musicians, hey why even bother have a band, let's go for synthetic music all round.
I can't believe this thread is anything more than a wind-up.
Also, Sly, have yet to hear anyone be self indulgent on a Prince show...
Mash this argument is like saying the planet's polluted anyway so why bother doing anything about it.
PS for the historical record the great funk masters have all had horns as part of their thing, oooh and haven't a great many had Maceo!

I love the horns in his music and live for the most part, but I would rather hear Prince play something than to hear Maceo get his piece in AGAIN AND AGAIN. If I wanted the Maceo show I'd go see Maceo.

I agree..I loved the MPLS sounds with synths doing the horn parts. Prince has used horns well very rarely. That trumpet is almost always annoying and destroys the grooves lots of times. But I think he is in love with horns now and likes the old school thing, so we may have to suffer them more in the future.

You're thirteen? Believe me, you'll change your mind in the future. Besides, where did you get the idea that music was about selling records? It's about doing whatever your creative mind pleases and nothing else. The rest, as far as I'm concerned isn't music just an industry operating on the medium of musical exploitation. And as far as the arrangements being too "in your face"... well, that isn't my face.

But I actually agree with you. I'd love to hear a few new albums without the horns for a while. Just for a change.

But Prince at thirteen, man... you do have a good taste in music! Keep it going.