have you noticed that with the begining of 2000
prince drasticly changed way he play guitar.
no pentatonica bullshit,he plays
more exotic scales,much better phrasing.
i dare to say he improved 100 %
he was awful on rave 2000 dvd,since than he improved very much.
he uses whammy bar also.

thebanishedone said:

I swear he's deep into Zappa these days. The wang bar, the outside notes... Listen to Xenophobia, Rainbow Children (Ona Live) or the solos on NEWS.

inteligent? ... yes
ass-kickin' ... no

which one do you prefer?
I love those ass-kickin' days (1980 - 1981)

I don't care for technical skills ... it's the feeling / attitude that counts ... seems to me he's a pussy nowadays

I like P's development. When I was a teenager full of raging hormones, he did Darling Nikki and Let's Go Crazy. Now I'm a boring old fart and he does intelligent instrumentals. Perfect for me!

ThataintFunky said:

Please explain to me what 'pentatonic bullshit' is?

Sure, it's clear he has practised a lot. He plays guitar very very well now, he keeps on having his funk, and has added a lot of things more.

I Dont Seem 2 Undesrtadn Whats Wrong Wirh Prince's Guitar Playing On The Rave DvD...I'm A Guitar Player Myzelf, And I Think It's Pretty Good, Altough He Amased Me At The ONe Nite Alone Tour, He's Very Good!

Sorry For The Bad Spelling...

Prince playing guitar more intelligent(ly) these days would mean him putting it on his records. He's always been great, but you'd hardly know it from listening to most of his recorded songs.

nikkhendrix said:

I guess it`s my turn again.
Remember the Syracuse Purple Rain Show?
Towards the end of the guitar solo, he hits
the #9 with a lovely feedback. While i - and
probably many others - almost get a heart attack, because
it`s so great, banishedone thinks it`s
pentatonic bullshit.
That`s the way the way the cookie crumbles.
If you ask me, Prince is a pentatonic scale walking around the globe in high heels.

Oh, it`s supposed to be "intelligent", okay? Thank you.

TonyWilliams said:

... okay ... but my dictionary won't explain the term "pentatonic" ...

ThataintFunky said:

Pentatonic : Of or using only five tones, usually the first, second, third, fifth, and sixth tones of a diatonic scale.
diatonic : Of or using only the seven tones of a standard scale without chromatic alterations.
chromatic : Of, relating to, or based on the chromatic scale. Relating to chords or harmonies based on nonharmonic tones.

I don't think Banished was actually referring to major pentatonic as you are, as it is a scale P uses relatively rarely. He's probably referring to minor pentatonic( 1 3 4 5 7), which is often associated with uninspired classic rock and blues solo-ing (though it canb sound fantastic in the right hands). However, Prince as good as always has added major thirds , flat fifths and sixths to his blues style playing, so I don't quite agree with Banished either...

AsylumUtopia said:

I'm not a musician so I don't know anything about technicalities. But I can sure hear that Prince's music (especially live) is getting more complex and more subtle.

My friend, who's a Zappa fan, also tells me Prince reminds him more and more of Zappa.

Maybe ten years ago I would have found this stuff boring and self-indulgent -- who knows? But nowadays (and many jazz records later...) his digressions and improvisations just amaze me and fill me with joy.

hectim said:

Makes sense. "uninspired classic rock", a la Eric Clapton ?

Although to be honest, I probably wouldn't know a major pentantonic scale if it bit me on the arse. Prince would have to stop in mid song and say "now that's a major pentatonic, muhfuh, ow!".

While I'm being honest, I was just surprised that ThataintFunky's dictionary didn't have pentatonic in it, so I decided to look it up in mine (www.dictionary.com). Made me sound knowledgeable though, didn't it.

I'm a guitar player & to say his music is more "intelligent" i think is the wrong term. He has expanded his vocabulary, which is cool. BUT: I prefer his more raw approach, he really was trying to stretch out in a small box. So his solo's were really daring & extreme...gutsy, ambitious. Now they're more tactiful, a little too careful for my taste at times.

As a musician I hate terms like "intelligent" when refering to scales, harmonies & chords. Intelligence in music is about emotional complexties or depth. Lou Reed has been recording music since the mid 60's, he's probably one of the most intelligent musicians ever. The guy knows a handful of chords, and a scale or 2 (maybe). So for my taste, in my opinion: musical intelligence is about rawness & newness not math & patterns.


Nero

I think Prince's whammy/tremolo use is horrible.

And, while I'm floored by his "JIR" solo on ONAL, I don't think he's playing in a more intelligent way. I got Small Club last year and seem to prefer his style from "back in the day."

He was still doing exotic scales. If anything, his playing seemed prettier then. Now, it seems a bit sloppy. But others seem to think it's "rawer."

I also think his tone has fallen off. Whatever setup he used for the Clouds, say in his SOTT days, seemed a bit more versatile. His tone now (pickups, processors, I don't know) seems a lot less refined, more generic.

I disagree. If you compare Hendrix and Coltrane for instance, you'll find two innovators with incredible emotion and depth. Still, Coltrane used a far wider range of scales, chords and rhythms. That difference might well be called musical intelligence. But that's not necessarily a good OR a bad thing. Sometimes intelligent playing sounds great, sometimes it sucks. Same goes for less technical/theoretical playing. That's how I think about it...

neronava said:

for those who think prince isn't great with whammy bar,check out his use of it on bambi live from 2002 celebration.
that solo is a trip just as "just my imagination "is.

i don't know what the f..k is wrong with these tony williams guy.
everytime i write something ,
he wants to bring me down.
i know that music is about emotion,
but why not talk about
it's proces of creation,also who's better .
no matter what i will always njoy music.
these themes are far better then "does prince fuck" and simular.

thebanishedone said:

At risk of violating our boots rule, I'm serious when I say I don't know where I would pick up that boot.

Org folks trip me out with discussions of live performances, as if the discs, tapes, etc. are just floatin' around at Sam Goody. I don't have it.

I reference his solos from ONAL and "WWWBP." It's not a subtle technique. It's very choppy and erratic. I don't think it's good at all.

ThataintFunky said:

I second that. He can play as intelligent as he want. The songs still suck.

intelligent? when'd he ever play guitar stupidly?

people check out his playing on hard rock nite on celebration 2002.
his playing there is beyond words,especialy bambi(he sang whole song not only first part)

thebanishedone said:

that's your opinion. I think he was great...more pop-rock...even a little sloppy in a good way.

he's always great on guitar. never heard him play a bum note, really.

thebanishedone said:

I think he ALWAYS played amazingly, & BTW rave2000 dvd was awesome IMO. R U kidding? "AMERICAN WOMAN" with lenny kravitz ( 2 funky ) is just 1. I think his style in his playing is somewhat different now, & he uses lots of different effects. Plus he's leaning 2 smooth jazz alot, as well as heavier funk with the effects, & other added instruments, doing more mature instrumentals in those genres.

Well he was far more "explosive" in the old days. The sort of Voodoo Chile thing he still does, but it's become far more softer - maybe because of the sounds and the effects. But he doesn't just ram through it as much anymore. If you listen to "Bambi" or "Lady Cab Driver" you can hear that's a young man playing. It's got the energy, the abrasiveness.And on a personal note I've always thought his highlight on the guitar is actually "Uptown"... yes, "Uptown".

nikkhendrix said:

it's a five-note scale that sounds like either it's chinese or the blues, depending on what note you start on.
hard to explain to non-musicians, but most folks would know it if they heard it (american idol contestants aside!)

ok class, time for recess...!