Where's Alex Hahn at? I thought he was the resident 'Law Man' up in here!?

Anyhoo...add my name to whatever your planning .

I kinda like the CJ thing though. Yeah - a bitch she MAY be, but like someone else said, some of her articles have a habit of spreading pretty quickly.

A 'Symbolina gets ass kicked on The Org' headline would do NO harm.

---

[This message was edited Mon Jan 19 17:55:46 PST 2004 by thebumpsquad]

We need a name for the organization!

"If I see 11, U can say it's 7"

No matter where this discussion goes there will always be those that don't see it as wrong. Those that justify it to themselves and to others.

I do not understand where most of you are coming from with regards this topic. Be it Prince or any artist, it is wrong, you have no right to the material and the only people that profit are the bootleggers themselves. You that trade gain your own profit. Downloading it on the net may not cost you money etc but somewhere along the line somone paid money for it and with technology it is now in cyberspace.

My feelings on this are very strong so to save myself any further heartache in knowing there are those out there that profess to be Prince fans will continue to rape and steal from this most amazing man I will step aside from this discussion.

I choose white, you choose black.

Anxiety said:

Anx u are trippin'..a site on boot info is not no damn fan epression..come on now lol.

So in other words, you can't respond to any of the responses to your previous post.

I like black.

rdhull said

Rolling Stone did the same damn thing in its magazine last year with a big ass list of Eminem bootlegs. He didn't have a record or a movie out or anything, they just did a cover story with a whole section on Eminem bootlegs out there.

Now they didn't say people could find these boots at such-and-such store or at www.blah-de-blah.com - they just said they were circulating among fans and on the net, and went on to describe what was on the boots.

Now, I haven't been up and down and all around the sites in question, but from every single damn thing I've heard, these sites were not unlike the RS coverage of the Em bootlegs from last year's cover story.

So how are these sites, that I am assuming were created and maintained by fans, not considered "fan expression"?

And RD, I'm not sayin you're wrong or I'm right, I just don't get where you're coming from with that statement.

rdhull said:

LOL

Anxiety said:

I was talking about fan expression in like say..writing or drawing from the art or about the art that is created etc...not just talking about the quality, setlists, and content of bootlegs etc.

Sure they had some RS overview of Eminem, but that route of calling it freedom of expression def does not cut it imo at least...its tantamount to the argument folks have about sampling in rap imo.

I think that any plans for anything should not appear openly on this site.If something is done it should be well planned and clandestine for max effect.

rdhull said:

So why is it okay for RS to do it w/ Eminem bootlegs, but it's not okay for some schmoe to do it w/ Prince bootlegs?

Is it for the same reason that it's cool for someone like D'Angelo to talk face to face w/ Prince about bootlegs, but fans aren't allowed to mention them at NPGMC?

rockwilder said:

i say rent a billboard, screw it

Anxiety said:

I think we are on different pages here. How is talking about ( having a site about) bootlegs expression? Who even said it was "ok" to do it with Eminem and RS? I didnt. You are assuming that I think it's okay for RS to publicly do that: which is neither here nor there. But I dont think anything about a boot site on Prince , Eminem or anyone is really authentic "expression" worthy of rallying behind. I mean come on..it isnt like somoene making paintings of Prince and painting interpetations of his music that Princ ehas decided to cease form happening..that would be ceasing of expression. The site is merely stating what is out there thats unofficial and possibly illegal. That iant no expression
[This message was edited Mon Jan 19 18:48:37 PST 2004 by rdhull]

rdhull said:

Amen brotha RD You speak the truth. The naysayers not only always come back and usually their the ones tryin to cut in front of you at the show so they can get a closer seats!

rdhull said:

Dang dude, who died and made you the Minister of Expression?

Seriously - you ever done HTML design? Web sites don't design themselves. It takes a lot of effort and dedication not only to design a web site, but to maintain it. And for someone to maintain sites like the ones that were shut down - and to do it without monetary compensation, just out of one's own interest - yeah, I would call that a kind of fan expression.

You don't? Well, okay. But I do. Just like I would consider a 'zine on the same subject a form of expression, and just like I would consider the package design on some of the better bootleg releases a form of fan expression, for better or for worse...

Anxiety said:[quote]

rdhull said:

Nobody..and if you look Ive said what I felt was "expression IMO" a few timwes..no need to get smart about it.."dang dude" so u want to go there with it





I have to say it but muthafucka please...I'm not as computer savvy as u but I know it takes skill and knowledge..no need for any of this smarmy talk to me (i.e. disrespectful)

Oh someones' upset with this




Yeah a lot of work is involved __oblivious me had no idea..thought it was just click and press icons and shitr is made (sarcasm)

Do you attribute the same thgoughts on what prince gors through to make a song..the idea, the wrigint, the producing, the skill...or if live..the production, the set up etc etc to whats being botlegged? And like a magazine to have been closed down or website, what about that art u created being used as someoen elses whim etc?



regardless of what was leaked in the past purposefully or talked about (because that was then and this is now...you now know he dont want no talk of it or websites or sales of his unofficial material).

Do you ascribe the same sentiments of th e wrok ethic of the "boot sites freedom of expression" with all the html etc to Prince as well anxiety?

"you dont..ok..didnt think so"(see how cheap that shot was?remind u of someone?)


who made yall the minister of what Prince can do to protect or represent hios own work his own way?

You are here and now offically "a trip" lol

What would any of you do if you were Prince. Take action or just relax and let others pull the wool over your eyes and make money off your ass.

go to the concert when he is in your town.
Nobody here at least is strong enough to put up or shut up...and if they dio they alwaysss come back.[/quote]
you callin' me weak??

rockwilder said:

you callin' me weak??[/quote]

callin you as in "hey how do ya like the concert" not weak...I don't know how much u bench so that's moot.

PEJ said:

Although they (some ) must love Bill Gates and his strategies...to be fair I think they aren't talking about the sale of boots and folks making a profit...but just that its unfair to stop talk ...or "expression" lol...of whats already out there. Which still does not make a difference in the long run of things. I mean come on now..I think they and we, and I all know that. We are now dealing in semantics becasue of emotions and Ive been there so I can empathise..but I have not lost my sense though.

Yes. If Prince had half a brain he would have nipped it in the bud like Frank Zappa and released discounted but official disc sets of all the bootlegs of any merit a long time ago. Now with web downloading being the standard of distribution, he hasn't got a hope in hell of containing it. I'm sure he is kicking himself for not having the sense to do this earlier, but such wisdom comes with maturity (which has been a long time coming IMO).

Recent tactics may well be an attempt at some kind of "zero tolerance" policy, but although it sounds like a good idea to target the providers of information - ie. the less people know about them, the less likely they are to buy them - it is as you say, not illegal to supply the information in question, and the bullying is unwarranted and unfair. They are in effect only shooting the messenger.

If folks running the web sites under threat had some legal back-up, he would not be able to shut them down, but they don't, so he can. Sadly, this whole issue still won't have much effect on his popularity, since the majority of his record buying public will never hear about this. Prince and his people know he has nothing to lose when they choose to pursue matters like this, and they are right. If an article gets published in a newspaper about this, it is merely putting his name back as a household word.

So what to do? Prevention is the key - don't LET it happen to you if your site is next in the firing line! (great advice in this thread to those setting up or running similar sites - take heed).

AND an idea:
Since Prince and his minions are trawling the net to actively seek out these kind of websites, perhaps our message to him (if indeed it is him we want to communicate with) should speak loud and clear on the actual websites he is attempting to shut down. We could design an ad banner for the much desired official product (obviously an artist's impression, but made attractive with superb sound quality and low price) with the headline "it's never going to happen, is it?" and ask site owners to include it on their sites.

Anxiety...

Your responses are great.

Some of these folks are just STUPID. I'm sorry to sound like I'm namecalling, but are these poeple retarded or just drinking purple Kool-AID?

For the slow-witted:

The issue here is Freedom of Speech... the right talk about and discuss issues.

If the music industry wants to go after Bootleg companies... fine. go ahead. That would make sense.

But attacking fans... fans who are making websites DEVOTED to the artist!!! is just insane.

PEJ said:

So go after Sabotage. So go after Thunderball.

So send out another crazy ass e-mail to club members asking them to report wrecka stows that sell bootlegs to NPGMC.

THESE are the folks making money off his ass, not the fans who expend their own time, effort and money on creating sites about something in which they are interested.

Why is it that in this latest round of caterwauling, nobody's willing to discuss the real source of the so-called problem?

awright ya'll...i'ma go ahead and close this thread up and look it over (the parts that are still on-topic, that is), and i'll start up another thread within a few days or so after i think things through.

thanx for yall's participation on this thread.